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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12444247 -

I'm not sure the worlds are separate at all -- that's all I'm getting at :smile:
I agree with you, we should experience what happens as it happens.
But thoughts and imaginings happen too, and we can experience these the same as everything else.

The question becomes: Do I create thoughts? Do I create the world around me?
If the answer is yes to one and no to the other, two worlds exist.
If the answer is yes or no to both, then only one world exists.
One world that we are experiencing.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: appleorange]
    #12444249 -

appleorange said:
The Northern Hordes of Spirituality & Mysticism have commenced a siege on our town folk.




Quick, hide the women and children!  There will be pillaging.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: deCypher]
    #12444297 -

Mr. Cypher said:
appleorange said:
The Northern Hordes of Spirituality & Mysticism have commenced a siege on our town folk.




Quick, hide the women and children!  There will be pillaging.



That KISS tribute band needs to watch out or someone's gonna catch their hair gel on fire.


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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: crumblebum]
    #12444328 -

crumblebum said:
Well, it starts with a conversation between a brahmin and the Buddha. I'm not saying that The Buddha and a brahmin have no bearing on either Philosophy, Sociology, or Psychology. I'm just saying they have a lot more bearing on Mysticism and Spirituality, for which there is a board.


There are indeed mystical stories connected to Buddhism, but Buddhism is, if anything, the escape from mysticism.

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
-the Buddha

"The religion of future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description... If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism."
-Albert Einstein


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12444339 -

Buddhism is by definition mysticism, what the fuck are you talking about?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: deCypher]
    #12444421 -

Mr. Cypher said:
Buddhism is by definition mysticism, what the fuck are you talking about?



Yeah, I got nothing more for this. If that point isn't obvious, all others points that follow are lost.


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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: Kickle]
    #12444427 -

Kickle said:
I'm not sure the worlds are separate at all -- that's all I'm getting at :smile:
I agree with you, we should experience what happens as it happens.
But thoughts and imaginings happen too, and we can experience these the same as everything else.

The question becomes: Do I create thoughts? Do I create the world around me?
If the answer is yes to one and no to the other, two worlds exist.
If the answer is yes or no to both, then only one world exists.
One world that we are experiencing.


In that case we are in agreement. The two worlds are just two different aspects of the same thing, and I didn't mean to imply that they were separate. The point is that when the Buddha said he was awake, he meant that he had realized and conquered (though not destroyed) the dream. He separated himself from it to some degree that it would not affect his well being, and he trained his mind to acknowledge the dream without letting it control him.


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: deCypher]
    #12444449 -

Mr. Cypher said:
Buddhism is by definition mysticism, what the fuck are you talking about?


Buddhism isn't bound by a definition, it is what each individual makes of it

crumblebum said:
Yeah, I got nothing more for this. If that point isn't obvious, all others points that follow are lost.


you didn't even make any points. you just showed an ignorance of Buddhism, posted a video, and then backed up someone who seemed to you like they knew what they were talking about.


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

Edited by AngryPhil (04/23/10 05:35 PM)

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12444497 -

AngryPhil said:
Mr. Cypher said:
Buddhism is by definition mysticism, what the fuck are you talking about?


Buddhism isn't bound by a definition, it is what each individual makes of it



Err... No. Your version of eclectic Buddhism assembled from a variety of sources isn't bound by a definition, because YOU don't feel like being bound by a definition. Ethnic Buddhists have fairly defined structures for their faith, and are no more loose and open to interpretation that Christianity is.


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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: crumblebum]
    #12444527 -

crumblebum said:
AngryPhil said:
Mr. Cypher said:
Buddhism is by definition mysticism, what the fuck are you talking about?


Buddhism isn't bound by a definition, it is what each individual makes of it



Err... No. Your version of eclectic Buddhism assembled from a variety of sources isn't bound by a definition, because YOU don't feel like being bound by a definition. Ethnic Buddhists have fairly defined structures for their faith, and are no more loose and open to interpretation that Christianity is.


Everything is 100% open to interpretation, who the fuck is in any place to tell someone what they are allowed to believe, or what the right way to interpret something is? Christianity is equally open to interpretation, why do you think there's so many branches of Christianity? Every person is his own religion


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12444533 -

AngryPhil said:
Mr. Cypher said:
Buddhism is by definition mysticism, what the fuck are you talking about?


Buddhism isn't bound by a definition, it is what each individual makes of it


Call it individualism then, not Buddhism.  :wow:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil] * 1
    #12444588 -

AngryPhil said:
Mr. Cypher said:
Buddhism is by definition mysticism, what the fuck are you talking about?


Buddhism isn't bound by a definition, it is what each individual makes of it

crumblebum said:
Yeah, I got nothing more for this. If that point isn't obvious, all others points that follow are lost.


you didn't even make any points. you just showed an ignorance of Buddhism, posted a video, and then backed up someone who seemed to you like they knew what they were talking about.


1. Please, show me where I displayed an ignorance of Buddhism.
2. I didn't post the video. Look closer.
3. He does know what he's talking about, and made the same point I would in 1/10th the words.

Buddhism is a religion. It involves sending telepathic messages to secret invisible entities. It involves praying a certain number of times and counting those times on a bead strand to make invisible entities happy.

Religions, in any case, whatever body of philosophical content they contain or spawn, fit decidedly into the "Mysticism and Spirituality" side of this division.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an apostate eclectic Hindu, and there's a lot of good and interesting philosphy embedded within. But I wouldn't bring it up here, because of the big undefinable vagaries that a religion presents in philosophical debate. I'd take it to the S+P boards.

Further, you claim that Buddhism isn't subject to definition. Well, if it has no definition, then it can't be discussed rationally, because rational discussion relies on fixed definitions for things being discussed. It can still be talked about, certainly, but not with the tools and methods used in Philosophy, Sociology, and Psychology. However, a mystic or spiritual conversation would suit it just fine.


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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12444620 -

AngryPhil said:
crumblebum said:
AngryPhil said:
Mr. Cypher said:
Buddhism is by definition mysticism, what the fuck are you talking about?


Buddhism isn't bound by a definition, it is what each individual makes of it



Err... No. Your version of eclectic Buddhism assembled from a variety of sources isn't bound by a definition, because YOU don't feel like being bound by a definition. Ethnic Buddhists have fairly defined structures for their faith, and are no more loose and open to interpretation that Christianity is.


Everything is 100% open to interpretation, who the fuck is in any place to tell someone what they are allowed to believe, or what the right way to interpret something is? Christianity is equally open to interpretation, why do you think there's so many branches of Christianity? Every person is his own religion


So the dude at the McDonalds drive through is of sound mind if he interprets "I'd like a McRib Sandwich" as "Please punch me in the junk"....?

See, the whole "Everything is up to interpretation" deal is ANOTHER reason why this discussion is not at home here. If it's all up to interpretation, then there's no way to establish anything whatsoever about the subject at all, which is fine for Mystic thinking, not so much for Philosophy, Soc. and Psych.


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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: crumblebum] * 1
    #12444636 -

1. Please, show me where I displayed an ignorance of Buddhism.

:lol:you made that one easy. right here:
"It involves sending telepathic messages to secret invisible entities. It involves praying a certain number of times and counting those times on a bead strand to make invisible entities happy."

and from here I'm done


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12444681 -

AngryPhil said:
1. Please, show me where I displayed an ignorance of Buddhism.

:lol:you made that one easy. right here:
"It involves sending telepathic messages to secret invisible entities. It involves praying a certain number of times and counting those times on a bead strand to make invisible entities happy."

and from here I'm done


Well, if you can explain how:

1. Thats a misrepresentation of what Buddhists (ethnic raised ones, not internet assembled eclectics)
2. Whether or not I know the specifics of a faith makes it any more suitable a topic for this forum

Then yeah, you've got me in teh checkmate. Otherwise, you're still trying to attach Philosophy status to a religion.


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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: crumblebum]
    #12444694 -

crumblebum said:
AngryPhil said:
Mr. Cypher said:
Buddhism is by definition mysticism, what the fuck are you talking about?


Buddhism isn't bound by a definition, it is what each individual makes of it



Err... No. Your version of eclectic Buddhism assembled from a variety of sources isn't bound by a definition, because YOU don't feel like being bound by a definition. Ethnic Buddhists have fairly defined structures for their faith, and are no more loose and open to interpretation that Christianity is.


Electric Buddhism sounds cool.

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: crumblebum]
    #12444701 -

crumblebum said:
AngryPhil said:
1. Please, show me where I displayed an ignorance of Buddhism.

:lol:you made that one easy. right here:
"It involves sending telepathic messages to secret invisible entities. It involves praying a certain number of times and counting those times on a bead strand to make invisible entities happy."

and from here I'm done


Well, if you can explain how:

1. Thats a misrepresentation of what Buddhists (ethnic raised ones, not internet assembled eclectics)
2. Whether or not I know the specifics of a faith makes it any more suitable a topic for this forum

Then yeah, you've got me in teh checkmate. Otherwise, you're still trying to attach Philosophy status to a religion.


Sure thing lemme get right on that


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12444757 -

Hey, quick fix on any chance of me being "Ignorant of Buddhism"

Since you've established that 1. Buddhism is not bound to a single definition and 2. everything is "100% open to interpretation" I'm setting my personal definition and interpretation as "The Process of using a Bunn-Omatic automatic coffee maker", of which I am an expert.



Coffee follows the filter, the filter follows the grain, the grain follows the water, the water follows the heat. When all are in harmony, all is perfect. If one is out of harmony, all are out of harmony.

The foolish man pushes only the "On" button and wanders off in anticipation of coffee. The sage man remembers to hit the "Start" toggle and stands impatiently tapping his foot and making sure he got the right amount of creamer and sugar in his cup.

Kong Fu Zi said: One should take care when setting up the strainer, as one may accidentally use two filters instead of one. This weakens a mans coffee and leaves him full of rage by lunch.


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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: crumblebum]
    #12444766 -

crumblebum said:
The sage man remembers to hit the "Start" toggle and stands impatiently tapping his foot and making sure he got the right amount of creamer and sugar in his cup.

Kong Fu Zi said: One should take care when setting up the strainer, as one may accidentally use two filters instead of one. This weakens a mans coffee and leaves him full of rage by lunch.


I forgot to make coffee this morning... :sad:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: deCypher]
    #12444783 -

Mr. Cypher said:
crumblebum said:
The sage man remembers to hit the "Start" toggle and stands impatiently tapping his foot and making sure he got the right amount of creamer and sugar in his cup.

Kong Fu Zi said: One should take care when setting up the strainer, as one may accidentally use two filters instead of one. This weakens a mans coffee and leaves him full of rage by lunch.


I forgot to make coffee this morning... :sad:


The BunnGodHead sniggers at you for your nonsagacious ways. No AZN heaven fer u.


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