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Offlinexfluffybunnyx
nobody
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Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
does a "Bad experience" make subsequent exps. bad?
    #1051318 - 11/14/02 02:34 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

This is not going to come out very well...
1st off... I'm a horrible speller :P
It's difficult for me to explain my "otherworldly" trips to other people...
but, I'm sure theres someone here who's had at least somewhat similar things happen.
History-
I have a lot of experience with psycedlelics
i've been called "the bubble gum ten strip guy" because of all the lsd i took in HS.
20 hits at a time of very good acid, and i had never had anything but a good time.
Paper was my main fix, although i'd eat anything that came my way, shrooms et al

Recent History-
after a drought of almost a year and a half of no acid, i started looking for alternatives... ended up trying a bunch of ethanogens looking for some spiritual experinces... after a bunch of not much, i had a breakthrough experience on (of all things) Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds... 10 seeds (not much) but i absolutely tripped harder than i ever had before... i couldn't tell the difference btw my eyes open or closed, i traveled into a plane of exsistance where i ended up learning things about myself and my surroundings that made profound sense to me at the time and afterwards.
But along with this, i felt my mind almost split.
For the first time ever, there was a "voice" while i was tripping that was telling me that i wouldn't ever return to my normal way of thinking.
This scared me, and for the first time ever tripping, i didn't "know" that this drug would wear off, and i started to freak out some.
Got very hot, then very cold.
"real" visuals melted seamlessly with "halucinated" visuals, and i felt as if "reality" itself was just a product of my imagination.
Granted - this is something i've pondered while sober, but in this situation, it may have been the cause of all this.
I almost knew that i had gone "crazy" and would spend the rest of my days in an institution of some kind.
I jumped in the bathtub and the cold water seemed to bring me back, and i had one of the most enjoyable times of my life.

Fast Foreward a Bit -
Started growing mushrooms - harvested mushrooms - ate mushrooms a few times to try them out -only smaller amounts to start with. 1/2 an 1/8--->1/8
Each time the paranoia started creeping up on me, to the point where
twice i forced myself to vomit, just to relive my body of the poisons that were bringing this horrible feeling to me.
these were not large amounts, and i didn't have much of a problem sticking it out until the paranoia (fear of losing "sanity") left and i enjoyed myself at least somewhat.

Present (last Sunday)
Ok...
so not beliving that i was in subjection to a mushroom, a friend of mine came with me on a road trip that ended at some hotel outside of chicago.
we had a blast, we were both expecting a good time, and i seriously didn't even think for 1/2 a second about my previous "bad" experiences
once we got comfortable in the hotel, we both started consuming a little less than a 1/4 of creepers each.
so, things are good, we're feeling good, and everythings good
then, as i'm sitting there i feel a literal "wave" hit me
instantly, i feel out of control. (i never feel this way)
i'm getting hot flashes over my whole body at once
this gives me an instant layer of sweat everywhere...
my heart is beating faster than it ever did, even when i was hooked on coke.
i seriously belive that my heart is going to give out
i'm going to overheat and die
these things were not hallucinations
so i do everything i've ever done in my life to calm myself down...
i think if i take deep slow breaths, my heartbeat will slow down
it does not
i'm almost laughing at myself, these are just mushrooms,
i've eaten a hell of a lot more than this before,
my friend, whos been through everything with me, ate the same damn things.
I cannot describe the physical sensations i felt

Another friend of mine suffers from panic attacks...
i've never understood them, and i always kinda joked that she just needs to get a grip... i think i have an idea now
thats the best way i can describe it, a panic attack on shrooms, even though i've never suffered from them before and i still belive they are bullshit.
i would jump up from the bed and get in the bathtub filled with cold water, splashing myself (didn't help)
I'd get soo cold and start shivering (like uncontrolable shaking more like it) so i'd get up and jump in the shower with hot water
Nothing was helping and the bathroom was not feeling very comfortable so i'd go back to the bed (this happened a few times)

Once the visuals kicked in -
i'm still freaking, i don't know why i'm sad because i wanted to have a good time with my friend, and i'm losing it... the visuals i see and the visuals i immagine merge again, and i'm convinced i have the ability to unmake exsistance.
the blanket and my arm become one and everything turns white.
not dull, bathroom white, electric, moving "alive" white
nothing around me is real, and it's all going to shit
my friend doesn't matter, because he is a product of my thoughts.
then this "voice" (thought, whatever the hell it is) tells me that i've pushed the envelope of "reality" too far, taken too many voyages to this place, have accessed information and thoughts that are not meant to be known by living human beings and it is time for me to pay up.
Since i've tried to hard to ignore/kill my physical being, it is my time to die.

it asks me why i'm so sad to learn that my time is up...
i think i'll miss my few friends and things i never did, but, i know even as i think
this that they don't matter, and as this feeling of dying grows, the more
"at home" i feel... it just feels right, so i start to settle in and become comfortable with the inevitable (somehow i know i will continue to exist after i die)... i tell my friend to tell my mom that i love her, and give him a hug....

fast foreward a bit (i have no idea how long)
so... just as i'm ready to die, i start to change my mind... i can't allow myself to give up like this
the only thought i concentrate on is breathing... i think, "if i can just have enough control to alow myself to continue breating, then i wont die"
STRANGEST FEELING EVER- haveing to consciously make myself breathe for a very extended period of time.... i try to ignore any conversations going on in my head, wisdom being passed to me, or physical sensations i feel, and just trying sooo hard just to breathe.
and sometime later
i'm comming down from a trip, just like any other trip
i talk to my friend, and tell him as best i could why i was stumbling around
the hotel room naked, why every towel in the bathroom was soaked, and why i absolutely knew that without my change of mind, i would be dead.

I AM VERY SORRY FOR THIS EXTENSIVE REPORT
it probably belongs in the trip reports.. but thats all just background

so... i am now afarid that i can't use hallucinagenic drugs any more
whatever the hell happened on those hbwr seeds, i don't want this paranoia.
i'm only 24 yrs old, i was looking foreward to a life of spiritual exploration
.. am i doomed to explore without the aid of external chemicals?
Is it possible that one experience can open up pathways that cannot
be closed again, so every experience afterwards is bound to
end up in tragedy?
Is it in my head?... was i subconciously expecting this paranoia each time
so, inevitably it came?
is there some way to control this fear, or combat these thoughts?
I can't stress enough how horrible my account of things is... the "seriousness" of the situation the "reality" of it, the dread i felt, my heart beating 200 times a minute, This was very real fear and i had no hope of ever being "sane" again

I appologize, i am not myself... i feel very humbled and i'm looking for someone to sympathize with me and or my situation..
If you knew me... i'm not that kind of person, i don't take comfort in other people.
these experiences have ripped control of my "sanity" from me, and i don't know whether i should dive right in, eat some more mushrooms, face this thing until i can beat it... or if i should just lay off, until my situation settles down a bit
(i'm in the middle of moving, i still don't know where, i have 14 days to figure it out, i'm leaving my gf and every shitty little thing in this shitty little town.)
btw.. i know all this has an effect on my tripping... could it possibly be the
main cause?

if you've read this far, you've already given me so much of your time
thank you all for your responses
XfluffybunnyX


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: does a "Bad experience" make subsequent exps. bad? [Re: xfluffybunnyx]
    #1051473 - 11/14/02 03:42 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

well once you open that door its easier to go back through it....

just try and remember you've opened a bunch of other doors too, and they're waiting for you :smile:

try and think these things while having a "bad" trip:
it won't last forever
yes i AM crazy so i should just get used to it and stop flipping out
boy i sure am wasting a lot of my trip by doing whatever it is i'm doing right now

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
perhaps i should get up and get some water and relax. relax.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineGrowingVines
Slowly Changinginto a Tree
Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 301
Loc: GA
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: does a "Bad experience" make subsequent exps. bad? [Re: xfluffybunnyx]
    #1051611 - 11/14/02 04:58 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

Take a break. That is what i had to do. I didn't have near as bad trip as you did. Don't take them for a while, forget what it was like, yet keep the knowledge you gained from them. You are just expericaning a deeper part of your insanity. Brace it, nurish it and learn to understand it. If you understand, thats cool. If not, then don't sweat it will come to you.


--------------------
Peace out my brothers, for everyone has a bit of insanity in them


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 29 days
Re: does a "Bad experience" make subsequent exps. bad? [Re: xfluffybunnyx]
    #1051658 - 11/14/02 05:52 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

I had a similatr experience myself. I think the key is letting go and as Strumpling says be aware it is only a temporary thing. When I say letting go its hard to describe what I mean. Just accept whatever comes into your head and let it pass as quickly as possible. Once I surrenedered I had the most amazing and ecstatic experience of my life.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleEcoFreako
Non-Threatening

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 122
Loc: BC, CAN.
Re: does a "Bad experience" make subsequent exps. bad? [Re: xfluffybunnyx]
    #1051672 - 11/14/02 06:11 AM (14 years, 24 days ago)

Hey Fluffy!  Thanks for coming clean and sharing!  You have done yoursElf a big favour being this open about your experiences.  In my mind, it was clear you were having a painic attack during the hotel shroom, even b4 you mentioned the possibility.
"even though i've never suffered from them before and i still belive they are bullshit."
Please change your mind! :laugh: You now have suffered what a panic attack is, and surely should empathize with those like your friend, and it'll start with believing in its exsistance!  You can't dimiss somthing because you don't know anything of it...I remember when I was 5 and under the care of a babysitter....she had a son with a speech impediment....I boldly asked one day: "why do you talk so funny"..he explains.. "I hath a sbpeetch impethiment"  I respond with certainty, (all the certainty of a 5 year old):  "There's no such thing!!!"    ...so, ya dude, theres such things as panic attacks.
(I'm quite surprised all your acid days never showed you one b4!)
  "whatever the hell happened on those hbwr seeds, i don't want this paranoia.
i'm only 24 yrs old, i was looking foreward to a life of spiritual exploration"
Sure, paranoia isnt fun at the time, but one thing we explorers have to learn is that growth and wisdom and insight don't come cheap.  We cannot be laughing and enjoying ourselves all the time and expect to be on any "resonable" path in our journeys.  I think its very healthy that you have had these experiences, and I'm sure you will eventually come to the same conclusions yourself.  Feeling like your going to die can be a product of a panic attack, or it could of started the panic attack, one thing worth mentioning is that the feeling is often (under heavy psychedelic trip-outs) transfered from the root cause; a sense of "menal" death...a dying (at least at the time being) of the mentality you associate with "your self"....the voice you spoke of, its definitly you, just maybe one with whom your not acccustomed to, (we got dozons! :grin:)
One thing that would for sure worth your invested time would be a book that investigates these very issues (with a human psychoanalytical approach woven with Buddhist reference) wrote by Tim Leary, Rich Alpert, and one of my fav. authors, Ralph Metzner.  Its based after the 'tibetan book of the dead', and is called " The Psychedelic Experience"
A great place for online papers and books is "The Psychedelic Library"
"myself to vomit, just to relive my body of the poisons that were bringing this horrible feeling to me"...one thing I'd like to mention on this...many people, including the past me, view our fungi friends as poisons....this certainly doesnt help that sense of paranoia...nor promotes the kind of loving relationship you might wan't to have with them....there is so many reasons why you don't have to think of them this way...may favorite is: Poisons harm you biologically, these don't, thus they can't be poison.
I really liked your summary...your definitly nailing some truths about your experience...like; "was i subconciously expecting this paranoia each time so, inevitably it came?"  I personally think that had a lot to do with it....I know I have experiences the exact same.  The paranoia of negative experience, however slight, is a  suggestion, strong enough to bloom...all our psychedelic treats are known heavily for their severe suggestive power.  As I started saying earlier however, you could find that this whole experience was indeed another door you needed to walk through upon your self-made quests.
"Is it possible that one experience can open up pathways that cannot be closed again"
Obviously the pertinent question...I have come to look upon it as maybe the doors should never be closed again...which doesnt have to be scary...it might mean that theres somthing inside the door that you don't psychologically "accept", thus the panic.  WIth full exploration of where the particular door leads, acceptence will come and the fear falls away and is replaced by wisdom.  I have certainly had hum-dinger episodes when in deep conversation with mushies, especailly lately, which is why I was inspired to comment on your situation.  I myself have held quite a bit of fear that the fearful mentalities I have accessed will be the repetetive trend on all future trips....I'm dismissing it as paranoia...so, for sure, jump back in with mushrooms, you know theres more to find out :laugh:, and going in with a bold and informed head is always the best way.  As you say, you are going through some personally heavy times now and in the soon-to-come, a pause may be in order...many feel the reflection time needed after heavy trips can be quite extensive...I really hope you keep adventuring! :smile:
Also, please be compassionate to that girl your leaving in the "shitty town"...Ive experienced the same, and was so caught up in needing to escape, found myself less than sypathetic at whom actually had to stay behind. :frown:
Hey, thanks again for relating yourself Fluffy, I enjoyed your notations and I hope you did mine as well!
...One more thing: "Entheogen" is derived as such; "en"=within ..."theo"=god/gods ..."gen"=generate,
so, Entheogen = to create god(s) within... :laugh:  keep on sailing!
                                                ---Ec0   

   


--------------------
Mmmm....permaculture....


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: does a "Bad experience" make subsequent exps. bad? [Re: EcoFreako]
    #1052034 - 11/14/02 11:43 AM (14 years, 23 days ago)

stop calling them panic attacks.... they used to panic me but i enjoy them now, and don't panic during them, so I think the name is obsolete.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineTannis
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Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: does a "Bad experience" make subsequent exps. bad? [Re: xfluffybunnyx]
    #1052162 - 11/14/02 12:41 PM (14 years, 23 days ago)

Your experience on shrooms is something I can relate to......the three back to back "bad" trips I talked about on these boards last Dec-Apr.......sounds like some of the same thing. I haven't done shrooms since because I don't want that horrible experience again.
I don't think that what I experienced was a panic attack but I wonder if not eating before shrooming and then something about the trip kind of whacked up my electrolytes.........
If that's the case then my bad experiences were imbalances!


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OfflineGrav
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: does a "Bad experience" make subsequent exps. bad? [Re: xfluffybunnyx]
    #1052359 - 11/14/02 02:08 PM (14 years, 23 days ago)

I've had a horrible trip on about a 1/4 of good shrooms. I know how you feel. You run around, looking for something to calm you down, but it just gets worse and worse, and you are convinced you are trapped in that hell forever. The more I tried to relax or "accept it" the more crazy I started feeling.

My advice is to take a long break and embrace your reality a little bit. Look for spirituality everywhere instead of in trips. The mushrooms don't like it when you're too eager.

I've learned a hell of alot about myself and the world just experiencing life for the past few months, and not thinking about the other world.
So stop thinking about trips for awhile, you'll know when the time is right again. Don't treat it like a prescription drug or somethin... Good luck, dude


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Offlinexfluffybunnyx
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Male

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 58
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: does a "Bad experience" make subsequent exps. bad? [Re: xfluffybunnyx]
    #1053704 - 11/14/02 09:43 PM (14 years, 23 days ago)

Thank you all for your replys...
If I could, I'd give you all hugs.
Just getting that off my chest helped me remember more of what was going on that night than I had when I started.
Good suggestions all around...
"You run around, looking for something to calm you down, but it just gets worse and worse, and you are convinced you are trapped in that hell forever. The more I tried to relax or "accept it" the more crazy I started feeling. "
lol
that about sums it up pretty well
newayz
does anyone have an explination for my heartbeat...
I know physical things like that can be the result of mental distress...
but I am convinced that my out-of-control heartbeat came first.
In that wave that hit me, my entire body got flushed, my pulse went through the roof, and i started sweating like crazy.
This is really what started me feeling uncomfortable (in the head) lol
I dunno... I've come up with a thousand reasons so far, including the fact
that I've just recently quit smoking ciggarettes (almost 3 weeks now)
and the fact that I literally drink 2 2 liters of mountain dew a day :P
(I need it to survive, the only addiction I have that is stronger is chap-stick medicated..... seriously, if I was on an island and had a choice of only 2 things to bring, Dew and Chap stick)
I'm gonna lay off the mushies for a bit, at least till I move. But I will definitly do them again as soon as I get a chance to grow them at my new place...
in the meantime
Has anyone seen Lucy?
I miss her very much, I don't know why she left the midwest.
Tell her to give me a call, or stop by anytime.

^flame on


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: does a "Bad experience" make subsequent exps. bad? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1053711 - 11/14/02 09:46 PM (14 years, 23 days ago)

Gazzbut, you're completely right!

The root of a "bad trip" is getting "stuck" on any given thought. You have to let it flow!

Even if you stick to the thought that "wow these thoughts are flowin by fast!" then you can get stuck thinking about your thinking and the magic stops. As long as you keep 'em flowing, and worry about doing the processing LATER, the trip is fine. Its when you get stuck to any thought in particular that you'll start wasting your trip and branching all sorts of wackiness from that one thought.

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
keep moving. relax relax.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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