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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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We live in two worlds
    #12443400 -

A brahmin once asked the Buddha: "Are you a God?"
"No, brahmin," said the Buddha.
"Are you a saint?"
"No, brahmin," said the Buddha.
"Are you a magician?"
"No, brahmin," said the Buddha.
"What are you then?"
"I am awake."

We live in a waking world and a dream. The waking world is the raw perception of our current state. It is the observation of our senses, our feelings, our thought, and anything that enters our consciousness. Meditation is focusing on the waking world, to experience without contemplating the meaning of what you are experiencing.

The dream is everything that the brain makes of the waking world. If you hear a bird chirp, all that came into your consciousness was a sound. From the perspective of the waking world, there was a sound and nothing more. Yet your brain imagines that there is a bird outside, and even creates a picture of a bird in your head. The image of the bird, and even the idea that there is a bird at all, is just part of the dream.

Judgments of other people, yourself, society, the world, god, the universe, ect. is all part of the dream. Everything you call a belief, everything you call a fact, your understanding of the universe and everything in it, is part of the dream. Although this dream is very useful for getting around in the world, it shouldn't be taken too seriously. When you take it too seriously, you begin to live in an illusion. Nearly all human-caused suffering can be attributable to people who took their ideas too seriously.


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

Edited by AngryPhil (04/23/10 12:19 PM)

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil] * 1
    #12443408 -

The OP is clearly still asleep.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: deCypher]
    #12443481 -

Mr. Cypher said:
The OP is clearly still asleep.


:5moreminutes:


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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/banlist.php http://www.shroomery.org/forums/banomatic.php

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/vetstatus.php

Kaleidoscope said:
If you build an idiot-proof device, someone will build a better idiot.

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #12443484 -

And when(B)Atman asked Brobin...


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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12443519 -

What is a sound?
What is the bird that I see?

I can remove my labels, but then what is it?
You say a dream, but isn't this just another label?
A broad one that doesn't really tell me what the bird is.
It only tells me the location of the bird -- within a dream.
But I'm still wondering, what is the bird?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: deCypher]
    #12443532 -

Mr. Cypher said:
The OP is clearly still asleep.


He must have chosen the blue pill.

Edited by appleorange (04/23/10 12:37 PM)

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: appleorange]
    #12443577 -



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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: Kickle]
    #12443785 -

What is a sound?
I don't know, go hear one. I sure as hell can't tell you in words

What is the bird that I see?
From your perspective, an aspect of your experience that is assumed to be, and probably is, based on an actual bird

I can remove my labels, but then what is it?
To talk about something is to put labels on it, so what it is without labels can't be described in words. you just have to experience it.

You say a dream, but isn't this just another label?
A broad one that doesn't really tell me what the bird is.
It only tells me the location of the bird -- within a dream.
But I'm still wondering, what is the bird?
You can never know what a bird is. You can create a pretty good idea of one in your head, but it's never a bird. It's just a simplified and inaccurate version of a bird that has been formed throughout your life. You can never fully experience a bird, you can only experience the vibrations it causes in the air, the light that is reflected off of it, etc. Anything beyond that must be formed by the imagination.


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

Edited by AngryPhil (04/23/10 01:17 PM)

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12443920 -

And the sloppy unicorn and lavender smelling goo of the Mysticism boards still leaks in.

Can we get a restraining order, or at least put a towel under the door and blare some death metal?


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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12443962 -

What sees this as a dream, if not the same thing that sees the bird as a bird?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: crumblebum]
    #12443971 -

crumblebum said:
And the sloppy unicorn and lavender smelling goo of the Mysticism boards still leaks in.

Can we get a restraining order, or at least put a towel under the door and blare some death metal?


Will you explain what exactly is mystical about my post?


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12444001 -

The Northern Hordes of Spirituality & Mysticism have commenced a siege on our town folk.


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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: crumblebum]
    #12444027 -

Can I like lavender without being considered gay?


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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil] * 1
    #12444029 -

Kickle said:
What sees this as a dream, if not the same thing that sees the bird as a bird?


The answer to that question can't be communicated from one individual to another, because none of our means of communication can contain it. The answer is an entire experience, and you've got to find it yourself


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12444095 -

Even when I'm experiencing, can I not still wonder "what am I experiencing?"
AKA there is no answer, even when experiencing?
And doesn't this lead to problems when you need to do something with your experience?
Like move your body, rather than just experience it?

Granted, you can experience this movement, but the movement itself is no different than any imagining is it?
Imaginings need not be removed, they are there to experience as well, no?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: AngryPhil]
    #12444119 -

Well, it starts with a conversation between a brahmin and the Buddha. I'm not saying that The Buddha and a brahmin have no bearing on either Philosophy, Sociology, or Psychology. I'm just saying they have a lot more bearing on Mysticism and Spirituality, for which there is a board.


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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: crumblebum]
    #12444125 -

Depends on what particular teaching one is discussing IMO


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: Kickle] * 2
    #12444140 -

Well dag nabit I'm from the south and if we're not trying to segregate something, we're not happy.


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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: crumblebum]
    #12444142 -

:rofl:
touche


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: We live in two worlds [Re: Kickle]
    #12444217 -

Kickle said:
Even when I'm experiencing, can I not still wonder "what am I experiencing?"


Yes you can and you should, I never implied that you shouldn't. One amazing thing about being human is our incredible ability to put reasoning behind our experiences. Both worlds are needed for our survival, and neither is superior to the other.


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The creation takes hand of the chisel...

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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