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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
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God has an Ego?
    #1151950 - 12/18/02 01:49 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

If you live a choir life but don't believe in God (or call him by the "wrong" name, like Allah instead of Buddha, for example) then supposedly God will send you to hell, and some say FOR ALL ETERNITY! (Note: In actuality "eternal damnation" only means "God's damnation" because the bible says "eternal is thy name" meaning God, so "eternal damnation" doesn't mean time, it means God's damnation/punishment.)

This theory seems to imply that God has a rather large Ego, IMO. He wants you to be a good person but if you are a good person and don't believe in Him/Her/It then you are going to Hell. It seems like God is putting his desire to "get credit" and recieve praise above ALL ELSE and if he doesn't get credit, and credit under the right name, then he will let you burn for eternity. I cannot believe in this God. I cannot believe in a selfish God, a God who creates only so that his creation will honor him, a God who puts Himself above all others. A God, whom we are told has a plan for us, but whos first concern is His own Ego. The God I believe in wants you to be a good person and cares not what you call him, Buddha, Allah, Nature, the Universe, etc. A God who is not concerned with labels but feelings, not flesh but soul. A God who knows, as Shakespeare once said, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet..."

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. - Albert Einstein, obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1151963 - 12/18/02 01:54 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Right on, dude!  :laugh:


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTeKn0
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1152030 - 12/18/02 02:21 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

My thoughts on the matter exactly.
Good post


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Listen, or your tongue will keep you deaf. :wink:
ŦēҜй? - ??ĜįĈ?? ҒűČҝĮńĜ ?đVǻŃčЄмЄńŦ


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Invisiblexnevermore
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1152056 - 12/18/02 02:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I agree completely. According to Catholicism, a person who murders 1000 people and repents gets to go to heaven, but an atheist who dedicates his life to helping others goes to hell. I refuse to believe in a God who is such a dick.


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- xnevermore


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OfflineZahid
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1152074 - 12/18/02 02:42 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

No one knows the nature of Hell; I do not believe it is anything near what Scripture describes.

The way I see it, if God did not use the aspect of Hell in revelation, or revealed the true nature of Hell, alot more people would be straying; less God fearing, and it all hits the fan from there. The literal threat of Hell is so that man, being as foolish as they are, may learn humility. If you really think God will physically torture the little old lady who died an atheist, you're living in a fantasy land - believer or unbeliever. A large ego? Having a large ego is a human trait. If you think you can apply such a trait to the all-knowing entity who sustains all, you are sadly mistaken.


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Edited by Zahid (12/18/02 02:51 PM)


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: Zahid]
    #1152082 - 12/18/02 02:46 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks a lot for the compliments guys!

If you really think God will physically torture the little old lady who died an atheist, you're living in a fantasy land - believer or unbeliever. A large ego? Having a large ego is a human trait. If you think you can apply such a trait to the all-knowing entity who sustains all, you are sadly mistaken.

I would have to agree.


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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Anonymous

Re: God has an Ego? [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1152123 - 12/18/02 03:02 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Can we say, "Straw man"?

It is threads like this that lead me to think that either you haven't read Aristotle or did not understand what you read.

Unless of course your thread is troll baiting. If that is the case it is humourous.


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OfflineGoBlue!
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1152142 - 12/18/02 03:08 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with you 100%!

But then again, I didn't read Aristotle.  :tongue: 


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: ]
    #1152212 - 12/18/02 03:33 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

straw-man = "slippery slope?"


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1152266 - 12/18/02 03:56 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

1 Buddha isn't a diety.

2 Aristotle was a punk, I give him the "Tallest Midget Award".


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Offline3eyedgod
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1152385 - 12/18/02 04:51 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I agree.

Does God have an Ego (not in the big ego sense, but in the freuadian sense)

That's a little bit harder to answer. 

If it holds true that as below so above and beyond, then i guess so. :confused:


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Without everything wouldn't nothing be everything and without nothing wouldn't everything be nothing.I am the beginning and the end,the source and the void, the light and the darkness,i am but a small drop of the ocean yet i am an ocean unto myself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1152432 - 12/18/02 05:12 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

If you look closely, you'll find that the author called Matthew is pretty much responsible for the Hell-fire and brimstone element in the New Testament. Matthew, the 'Judaizer,' whose mission was to the Jews (changed Kingdom of God to Kingdom of Heaven because Jews didn't want to print any of the Sacred Names of God, for example). This thread is particularly evident in Southern, Fundamentalist denominations, e.g., the Southern Baptists, and among revivalist and fringe factions. Catholics tried to temper this harshness with the creation of the notion of Purgatory, where one could purfy oneself, not go to Hell, and eventually get into Heaven.

God as sadistic, egomaniacal monster is one of the results of this literal, mechanical take on Christianity. It is a primitive understanding of the words, and one would have to understand that the "Gehenna," a place where garbage was dumped and burned in a continual, stinking, smoldering dump, was the metaphor for such a place as Hell. Hell is not only separation from God, from Eternal Love, it is the embodiment of an evil human. If the post-mortem state is a continuation of our 'state of being' on Earth, it is easier to understand. A truly evil person like Jeffrey Dahmer, is an embodiment of a Hellish psyche. Assuming we continue when the body drops away, it is easier to see that the loving, compassionate person continues in that mode of being, the hate-filled, rage-infected wicked continue in their reality as well. Transmigration under certain circumstances was part of Christianity til 530 AD. As the Good Book says: "In my Father's house are many mansions," which indicates that there are multiple 'dwelling places' in the 'life out of the body,' and determining factors for what becomes of us. The psyche is something that we belong to, not a cellular reality in the brain alone. We become 'tuned in' to the Sacred and the Profane while yet alive. An Egyptian papyrus I have shows the weighing of a dead man's heart against a feather. The lighter heart means Heaven, the heavier heart means being devoured by Maat in Hell. Archetypal idea here.

This is the urgency of Jesus' instruction to love 'with all thy heart, all thy soul and all thy might,' - right out of the OT. We must become Love, only our Love gets into Heaven because Heaven or God is Love. The rest of us is eliminated. To what extent we become identified with Love, or with all our mental and bodily functions and their vices, habits and selfishnesses, determines our spiritual destiny.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (12/19/02 01:48 AM)


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OfflineShroomalicious
You may say I'ma dreamer...

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 319
Loc: The Shire
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: God has an Ego? [Re: ]
    #1152607 - 12/18/02 06:30 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

It is threads like this that lead me to think that either you haven't read Aristotle or did not understand what you read.

Dude, is it at all possible that maybe I did read the guy and I just don't agree with him. We have talked about this before, like I said just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you are to stupid to understand, IMO.

Unless of course your thread is troll baiting.

What makes you think this is troll bating? It hasn't struck a negative chord with anyone but you. I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me but just because we don't see eye to eye doesn't mean I am to stupid to understand your point of view or that I am just saying it to "bait trolls".

I don't think you are dumb or being difficult, we just disagree, and that is okay. It isn't a matter of smart versus dumb or good versus bad, IMO.


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Shroomalicious - :smile: I love you and in doing so I love myself, because we ARE all one :smile: - "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless". - Mahatma Ghandi


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Anonymous

Re: God has an Ego? [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1152876 - 12/18/02 08:20 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Let me quite clear here.  Whenever I see an anomaly I try to figure it out.  The same is true of enigmas.

Your posts are articulate and you seem intelligent.  And yet you repeatedly make one error of logic after another.  You pile them up on top of one another and ladle them one after another so fast that I am puzzled nearly everytime I read a thread of yours.

So, I try to guess why you post what you do and try to figure out where you are coming from.  To date I am drawing a blank.

In this thread you create a false image of God and then argue against Him.  That's what a Straw Man Argument does.

Your response to me also indicates that you might not even know what a Straw Man is.  I watched you debate with Swami over the Law of Induction where you threw it to the wind as if it didn't matter.

Then I have to ask myself, "Where is this guy coming from?"

From all these posts I have to conclude that you have no idea what logic is.  If that is the case I find it very sad because without knowing at least a little logic and critical thinking skills you will go around and around and around and never know whether you have a good answer at all.

Here is but another example of it:

It hasn't struck a negative chord with anyone but you.

Pray tell how it is that you determined that no one else had a negative reaction?  Not all readers post.  And for that matter please tell me how you determined that I had a negative reaction?

That fact that I pointed out a logical error in your post does not even mean that I disagree with your conclusion.  But it most certainly means that I saw a error in your logic.

Look at Markos post.  Can you tell why he is saying what he is saying?  Does it seem that he disagrees with you or agrees with you.  And if he agrees with you why is that?

Here is the Straw Man argument for those unfamiliar with it:

"The straw man fallacy is when you misrepresent someone else's position so that it can be attacked more easily, knock down that misrepresented position, then conclude that the original position has been demolished. It's a fallacy because it fails to deal with the actual arguments that have been made.

To be an atheist, you have to believe with absolute certainty that there is no God. In order to convince yourself with absolute certainty, you must examine all the Universe and all the places where God could possibly be. Since you obviously haven't, your position is indefensible."


I'm not about to attempt to argue the fundamentalist position with you but has it ever occurred to you that God can be Just and Merciful at the same time?  And that if He is Just He has to punish sin?  And that His Mercy compelled Him to send His only Son and that to partake of His Grace all one has to do is accept it?  And that if one does not accept it then, according to the Fundamentalists (which you used the Straw Man argument against), then one only has one other alternative for Eternity other than Heaven?

Now, please, I beg you.  Do not start some tirade against that last paragraph of mine as if it is what I believe.  From your posts I would expect you to do so.

Instead recognize the existence of a third option and understand, hopefully, what a Straw Man argument is so that next time you are trying to state your argument you will not fall into another logical fallacy.

And lastly, I do not think you are dumb, neither did I imply it.  I said that you might not have understood Aristotle.  That is not accusing you of being dumb.  Do you understand that?

Here is a link to help you in your critical thinking skills.

It's called,  The Atheism Web (Logic and Fallacies)

Good Luck!  :smile:
 


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OfflineMurex
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1152906 - 12/18/02 08:28 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I think it's useless debating the whole God thing because I doubt it will change anyone's beliefs here.

God is God. 'Nuff Said.  :tongue:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineGoBlue!
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: ]
    #1153174 - 12/18/02 10:41 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

In this thread you create a false image of God and then argue against Him. That's what a Straw Man Argument does.

Well Mr. Mushrooms, you know a heck of a lot more about philosophy than I do, but although I?ve disagreed with much of what Shroomalicious has said in previous posts, I will come to his defense on this one. Because I believe that what Shroomalicious presented in his first sentence was NOT a misrepresentation of fundamental Christian beliefs about God. It is EXACTLY what I was taught as a Catholic. That?s why I agreed with him this time.

Of course, I realize there are hundreds of interpretations of God, damnation, etc. and it probably depends which denomination you are in (among other things) as to what you believe exactly, but the belief presented here is a common one.

Peace.


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:smile:  Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend  :smile:


Edited by GoBlue! (12/18/02 11:05 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: Shroomalicious]
    #1153452 - 12/19/02 03:58 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

They aren't saying his name is "Eternal", they mean that he will exist for eternity.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: God has an Ego? [Re: GoBlue!]
    #1153731 - 12/19/02 06:13 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks GoBlue!

I did not disagree with S. conclusion just the method he used to arrive at it.

I really hope he does come unglued when he reads my reply because I am only trying to help.

Cheers,


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: ]
    #1157022 - 12/20/02 05:47 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not sure you realize who's straw man this is.

He did not build this straw man, obviously it was given to him by his parents, or church or whatever. I was given the same straw man during my upbringing.

I, like he, chose to burn mine. The result was what I call "Optomistic Agnosticism", which basically means "I don't know what's going to happen, but I hope everyting turns out OK."

Personally I think the God described by the Bible is an evil monster. Most of the bible IMO is just alot of "Shit happens,God gets blamed" Sodom and Gomorrah for example, was probably distroyed, and then later determined to have been evil, and somebody wrote a bullshit story about it being destroyed for it's wickedness, when it was really destroyed for being too close to a large pocket of natural gas, (or something)


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Offlineribbit
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Re: God has an Ego? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1157402 - 12/20/02 08:44 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

i have some agreement with baby hitler.

think of the old days. i mean way back when, where people did not have education or knowledge that we have today. the only thing they can explain is that when bad things happen its evil, and when good things happen, it is because its Gods will. it was comforting to them to have explainations. and the church had them. such as.

as we all know that if you walked across a road without looking and get hit by a car and get killed, it was not because God wanted it to happen, it was not because you had premarital sex and you're evil. it was because you did not look both ways.

this thought has been the basis of christianity, even today. i hear it all the time, it is something that has just stayed within the religion all this time.


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