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InvisibleTM
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Ego Loss... Do I need to go there??
    #1939313 - 09/22/03 01:30 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Hi folks:

I'm hoping for some insight/input on the question of whether it's neccesary to experience total ego death in order to "get it".

I have been shrooming for over 23 years on and off and have been to the threshold of ego loss twice. The first time was on 5.5 grams of Mexi-cubes the second on 7.5.

They were very different experiences, but similar in some respects.

The first time, I started to realize that I was begining to feel out of touch with what and where I was, but held onto reality by telling myself what I was and where, and came right back.

The second time, I was shooting for it (obvoiously) by taking 7.5 grams, but only got to a point where my hearing began to leave me behind.

You see, for me, shrooming is all about the enhancement of music and the beatiful psychedelics that eminate from that spot of sunlight on chrome in my brain which are controlled by what I'm hearing.

To go beyond that very enjoyable feeling seems somewhat wasteful, but somehow intriguing.

On July 4th this year, my brother did 5 grams and went through the doorway. His hearing left him and the music became annoying to him instead of enjoyable. He was quite upset that he couldn't enjoy the music. He was still himself, just very pissed that it wasn't fun at that point. That lasted about an hour, then he got his "ears" back and all was well.

About a month later, I took a friend out on my boat to trip and gave him 5 grams and he totally lost touch with reality. His hearing left him and then so did all ego. He had the complete experience. Later on, I asked if he regretted going that far and he said he didn't, but also said it was a bit scary and he had to keep reminding himself that it would wear off. He said it was an interesting experience, but that he wouldn't want to do it again. Too uncomfortable.

Obviously, my brother felt the same way.

Do I need to experience total ego loss to understand something or have some kind of epiphany? I'm not scared of it, I just don't think it sounds like a "fun" trip.

Please enlighten me.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: TM]
    #1939342 - 09/22/03 01:41 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

if you dont want it, dont try do it. that would prolly be counterproductive. one day, you'll feel comfortable if you will it so, and you can experience ego-loss. but why do you it if you dont want to?


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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InvisibleTM
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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: entiformatie]
    #1939376 - 09/22/03 01:50 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Because I'm feeling that I'm less advanced or let's say at a lower experience level than people that have been to a point where nothing matters and where they can become anything the wish to be and they have seen/experinced something that I haven't.

Am I missing out on a life-changing experience?


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: TM]
    #1939389 - 09/22/03 01:53 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

This is going to be hard.. as I find it quite difficult to express these thoughts into english.. please bear with me..

In my humble opinion... no, you don't need to experience the "ego loss" in order to "get it".

To be sure, it is quite the intense experience..seemingly losing touch with reality and your sense of self.. time and space fail to manifest 'properly'.. and the action going on around you is a blur of chaos.. that's how it felt for me, anyway.

But there are many levels to it, of which I feel inept to explain properly through words, or even put my finger on. Likely each experience is different for different people, but one solid factor seems to be a sense of fear at temporarily losing touch with the ego, and ego's perception which we are so used to. Fear can be a good learning experience, if you perceive it in the right way.

To come out of this experience with a greater sense of self is the ideal position? But still, many do not seem to cogitate and process it appropriately. If seen in the proper light, it can provide invaluable insight for yourself.

However, I think that the mushroom itself provides the necessary learning experience. Whether 'breaking through' to the level 5 or not, it still gives us what we need at that time. I've experienced what I can attribute to 'ego loss' on low doses. I think that part of it, is how far you are willing to let the mushroom take you.

So my conclusion.. no, you don't need to experience a level 5, ego loss to 'get it', or have an epiphany. Some of my most insightful shroom trips have been level 1 or 2. Not to say there isn't a lot you can gain by 'breaking through'... but I wouldn't consider it to be a necessity for speaking with god and witnessing the birth of the universe.. or whatever you consider that place to be. Appreciate and respect what the shroom offers, and let it take you where it may. Being open and receptive is the best way IMHO.

You don't have to take 5+ grams to have 'ego loss'


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InvisibleTM
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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1939446 - 09/22/03 02:16 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"You don't have to take 5+ grams to have 'ego loss' "

That's the only part of your reply I disagree with. My normal dose is 5-6 grams and I don't get there. (Except that one time where I almost did).

I love getting to a strong level 4, anything less is just a (slight) disapointment. I never "low-dose" shrooms for that reason.

I may just be too frightened to go there for many reasons;

1) I experienced total loss of reason on LSD once... A very unpleasant 5 minutes. That 5 minute period put me off LSD for good, I think, although I'm tempted to try it again someday.

2) The hearing loss! Damnit, if I can't enjoy my music, I'm bummin'!

3) It may change my perception of the way I respect/worship the mushroom.

You see, the 2 times I had the chance to let go, I held on to reality with all I had. I forced myself to stay grounded. The door was open, I was standing at the threshold, but I couldn't step through it. I think I'd need to do at least 9 grams to get to a point where the drug would be more powerful than my will and force me into ego death.

I'm just torn by whether or not it would be worth doing for the reasons I listed above and possibly more.

I truly believe that my friend Bob is a different person in many ways ever since that fateful night on the boat. He hasn't stopped thinking about his experience. He said he can't get it out of his mind, but also, he can't wait to do just 4 grams and have a totally enjoyable trip either.

I'm so confused.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: TM]
    #1939520 - 09/22/03 02:47 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I didn't exactly mean that literally.. I meant that in a way..ego loss is in the mind..and you are in control of it, shrooms or not.

I think you're worrying about it too much.

Mushrooms aren't LSD for one... I don't think you'll have the same experience.

You were there, but you chose to not step through. Maybe you were simply not ready? Maybe next time you will be?

Let go of your fears... let go of your pre-conceived notions of what will happen if you do.

If you feel you need to take a super high dose to bypass your will...so be it! Do it next time, but make sure you are mentally/emotionally/spiritually prepared. You could begin with some light meditation and deep breathing, then relax and listen to some tunes.. and just go with the flow! Don't think about it so hard.. just let it come naturally. And next time you're there...just take the leap man. Headfirst, into the unknown.

Maybe it will give you even MORE appreciation for the sacred mushroom, did you think about that?

I'm saying I don't think you need it, per se... but from your posts I can sense that deep down you want it bad. So go for it man! Take the plunge!!


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InvisibleTM
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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1939574 - 09/22/03 03:10 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think you're right, Shroomism. I think I do want it, but I don't know when I'll be ready to do it. Just thinking about dosing enough to definately put me there is very scary. I can't imagine the feeling I'd have right after downing 9 grams. The anticipation and the anxiety would be overwhelming. Even more than it was with the 7.5 gram dose I did.

The thing is, after I came down from the 7.5 gram trip, I swore I'd never dose that high again. I didn't like the part when I started to lose my hearing. I was listening to my usual trip tracks and Paul McCartney's voice started to sound really weird, like all slow and stuff. I couldn't comprehend what I was listening to. It was weird. Too weird. I considered taking off the headphones at that point, but decided against it. I think if I had, I may have been sent off to nowheresville, but I'm not sure. That's why I'd need to do more than 7.5 to be sure I get there even if the headphones stay on during the step (push) through the doorway. I'm sure I'd have to remove them once I got there because the music would become an annoyance.

Or, I could just forgo the tunes until after I return from the beyond.

Anyway, I will probably do it at some point, but I know for sure now that I'm not ready yet.

Thank you so much for your insight and wisedom.

-TM


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: TM]
    #1939587 - 09/22/03 03:15 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Take your time.. you will know for sure when you are ready.

Peace be with you


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InvisibleTM
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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1939623 - 09/22/03 03:27 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Take your time.. you will know for sure when you are ready.

Peace be with you





How will I know? Will the fear just be gone? I can't comprehend just how that could come to be.
I guess that's the essence of the original question, I think. Maybe the question should have been:
"How do I know when I'm ready to plunge into level 5 fearlessly?"

I just can't picture not being very trepidacious about it.

I imagine this a very tough question to answer.

Peace be with you, as well, my friend.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Anonymous

Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: TM]
    #1939635 - 09/22/03 03:33 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

the hardest part about ego-loss is the moment right before it occurs. the good part is when you let go completely.... there is no fear then.


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InvisibleTM
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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: ]
    #1939647 - 09/22/03 03:38 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Hmmmm... For some, maybe, for others, the entire time is a bit scary.


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: TM]
    #1939659 - 09/22/03 03:43 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You know, I don't know.  :tongue:
That doesn't answer your question does it.

"How do I know when I'm ready to plunge into level 5 fearlessly?"

You will know when you are ready, when you are ready.

In my experience with fear... the fear, in whatever form, never dissolves completely, or is transcended, until you face/confront it directly, with love in your heart (read: no fear). In this case, that would mean that the fear won't be gone until you take the plunge and experience it yourself. Because until then, all your doubts and questions will only grow. You will know when you are ready, because you will have made up your mind to just go ahead and do it.. and fuck all. When the doubts linger, and the fear recedes.. take the plunge!

That is a hard ass question to answer. I tried my best.
Go with the flow...

Love and Light 


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InvisibleTM
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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1939679 - 09/22/03 03:54 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"I tried my best."

You did well. Very well!

Face it and fuck all. When I can do that, I'll be ready.

Awesome.

Thanks again.

Quote:

Love and Light




Who are you, Boppity604 now? :wink: 


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: TM]
    #1939734 - 09/22/03 04:32 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

More than happy to be of service to a fellow traveller on the path  :heart:
Perhaps some others can provide some perspective that I missed.

Quote:


Love and Light



Quote:


Who are you, Boppity604 now?




Hey!.. he stole it from me  :grin:


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InvisibleTM
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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1939736 - 09/22/03 04:36 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

  :blush: :thumbup: :heart: :cool: 


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: TM]
    #1939745 - 09/22/03 04:49 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"For some, maybe, for others, the entire time is a bit scary. "

this may be true, but once you pop your head out of that little fear tent you've been perched under your whole life, and you can see the sky above you...
you will not know fear, for your ability to think with that part of yourself will vanish..
this is, of course, assuming you are ready to look outside...
i have had an experience with salvia that left a sour taste in my mouth.. it was a very high level dose, and i was right on the threshold of ego loss.. i could feel it...
but i was not ready to see the day...
something inside me stirred and insisted that i hang on to reality as i knew it.. and i did...
because i chose to fight the powerful goddess, the possible bliss was only seen as a cage.. only felt as a red hot poker under my fingrnail...
based solely on my perception a the time..
if you feel like you want to go through with ego loss, prepare yourself beforehand.. if you feel at all uncomfortable, dont blast yourself off the charts with a high level dose, as your fearful preconception will only be magnified a hundredfold once under the influence...
just have love, and accept what you are about to witness..
for it is truly a divine experience..

and you will definately know when you are ready, there will be no question...


--------------------
:poison::poison:                                  :poison::poison::poison:                                  :poison::poison:


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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: starseed]
    #1939801 - 09/22/03 05:39 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Shroomism did a great job answering this, but if i can offer my opinion i would have to say take the plunge to tripmeister, I think that there's a certain point at which you just have to say alright i am going to do what it takes to face this fear, you seem to be putting alot of time in thinking about it, so experience it and know what it is. If you were that frightened of it, you wouldnt be taking large doses of an illegal (in some countries) and potentially mind-frying substance in the first place....

Peace and good luck :smile:


--------------------
I have presented the above as fact, but it is only based on one of an infinite number of possible theories, each of which is as true as the other is false.


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Anonymous

Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: TM]
    #1940184 - 09/22/03 11:35 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Hmmmm... For some, maybe, for others, the entire time is a bit scary.

then they never reached ego-loss compeletely.

the time right before it occurs could go on throughout the whole trip... you are close, but i believe you must willingly let go of your ego, then the fear will leave you, as it is a component of your ego.


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Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: ]
    #1940280 - 09/22/03 12:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Let me share my conversation with Bob after we came down and then you can tell me whether or not he was "completely" there;

During the experience he couldn't keep the headphones on. I kept saying to him, between songs, "Bobby, I don't understand why you're not wearing the headphones!?" He would say "I've totally lost touch with reality". I thought he was just tripping balls and didn't clue in that he meant what he was saying.

When we came down, we discussed what happened to him... He said "It was a bit scary, I had thoughts like; How did I get here? Where am I? What am I? I know I came here with my friend, but how do I get home? I have absolutely no idea how I will ever get home from here. Where is my home? Do I have a wife? Do I sleep with her? Do I have a son? I think I do, but does it matter? What is my purpose? I think I have a business to run (he does) but how does that matter? If a stranger were to come upon us here, what would I say to him about who I am or what I am or what I'm doing here? That was the prominent thought, it kept recurring. I had to keep telling myself it was just a drug and it would wear off, that's what kept me from being too scared. I couldn't enjoy the music because it became annoying to listen to. It didn't sound good."

Now, you tell me, had he "reached ego-loss completely"?


--------------------
================================================



"Have some congratulatory drugs." - C. Montgomery Burns

I'll probably always do drugs, so that just contributes to the addiction to The Shroomery... It's a vicious circle of bliss. :tongue2:

TM™ :cool:


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Anonymous

Re: Ego Loss... Do I need to go there?? [Re: TM]
    #1940303 - 09/22/03 12:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

no...i don't think you can be conscious during it.

i've experiened it 2 times, and both times i was passed out on the floor.

those questions he was asking were grounded in his sense of self, although obviously he was experiencing some ego-loss.

the only way i can describe it is the very essence of what we are as conscious beings..... "i" was only AWARE.... i did not exist though some part of my existence was aware of something, and it had nothing to do with me...... very hard to explain.

he wanted to take it further he could have, by letting go and not holding on to himself... that is the key.

but then again, if you take a very very heavy dose there is no deciding to let go or fight it, you are forced in to ego-loss.


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