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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #11013380 -

Socialism fails not because of poor administration, but because it has no rational way (due to lack of free trade) to calculate price in the structure of production.  See Ludwig von Mises's "Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth" for why socialism is broken as designed.

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: fivepointer]
    #11013409 -

By your definition, all countries are socialist, because they have some socialist policies. Yet most countries have no problems calculating price in the structure of production. For that matter, most countries don't have a toilet paper shortage either. If socialism is such a disaster, how come 99% of all countries can have socialist policies and toilet paper at the same time? I think your logic is seriously flawed.


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: fivepointer]
    #11014142 -

fivepointer said:
Socialism fails not because of poor administration, but because it has no rational way (due to lack of free trade) to calculate price in the structure of production.  See Ludwig von Mises's "Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth" for why socialism is broken as designed.


The kind of socialism he was talking about was a command economy.  Most countries today, even the most left-wing welfare states, maintain a market economy.


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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #11014669 -

realy? Why on earth would a small island nation with little or no forests and no domestic toilet paper production that, communism or capitalism exports a luxury good into an international market that is currently in recession, have a shortage of toilet paper? So what is it called in capitalist nations when toilet paper must be done without or stole? Do we have a shortage of food if some are starving in abundance? Look at Jamaica and Haiti, Cuba is lucky to have communism to protect it from predatory interests like the IMF, but not as lucky as they are to have those fucking cigars.

Anyone know what the deal is with Bacardi? It says it is from Cuba but they also have it in the US... so wtf?

edit: damn happened again


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (09/07/09 01:14 PM)

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: Silversoul]
    #11014698 -

Silversoul said:
fivepointer said:
Socialism fails not because of poor administration, but because it has no rational way (due to lack of free trade) to calculate price in the structure of production.  See Ludwig von Mises's "Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth" for why socialism is broken as designed.


The kind of socialism he was talking about was a command economy.  Most countries today, even the most left-wing welfare states, maintain a market economy.


but that's the weird thing even though everyone in this thread has claimed the command or planned economy is not a good idea. He shows up and starts spouting his libertarian rhetoric and saying we are all Stalinist... WTF?


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: ScavengerType]
    #11015133 -

He seems unwilling to change his mind and leave his manichean vision of economy!
Georgism is pretty interesting, I kind of agree with Silversoul's point of view based on what I've read so far. I remeber reading about another thing that could maybe help, the Tobin tax, promoted by the group ATAC.

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: Kukaracha]
    #11086257 -

Well, according to Fivepointer, I'm a Socialist.

But I'm ideologically pissed off that the U.S. govt. is handing out massive tax dollars to the Union-owned American auto companies that manufacture shitty cars - and provide fake, socialist-controlled, blue-worker jobs.

The U.S. is supporting a complete industry - much like China does on a regular basis. We are not communists, nor socialists. The free-market should live and die as a free market does. But instead, we prop up the Unions so that a bunch of fucktards can keep their idiot-proof jobs. And the rest of the world pays...

-the conservatarian (a.k.a. an asshole)

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: the_conservatarian]
    #11095994 -

Government is always less efficient than a free market.

Regulations always impede growth, prevent quick recovery.

Taxes hurt poor people much more than super rich even when scaled to income.


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The Great Mycelium (TGMM) is more than you and me, we are all part of One.

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: explosiveoxygen]
    #11096136 -

explosiveoxygen said:
Government is always less efficient than a free market.

Regulations always impede growth, prevent quick recovery.

Taxes hurt poor people much more than super rich even when scaled to income.


Those are quite absolutist statements, spoken like a good dogmatist.  Enjoy the Kool-Aid.  I hear the private manufacturer of it added something "special" to it.


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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: Silversoul]
    #11096378 -

Silversoul said:
explosiveoxygen said:
Government is always less efficient than a free market.

Regulations always impede growth, prevent quick recovery.

Taxes hurt poor people much more than super rich even when scaled to income.


Those are quite absolutist statements, spoken like a good dogmatist.  Enjoy the Kool-Aid.  I hear the private manufacturer of it added something "special" to it.


In a free market monopoly is impossible.


--------------------
The Great Mycelium (TGMM) is more than you and me, we are all part of One.

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Re: Is Socialism Good *DELETED* [Re: explosiveoxygen]
    #11098294 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11098468 -

Lakefingers said:
And unfortunately many good things as well.


Explain your ideas about some good things that are literally impossible in a Free Market.


--------------------
The Great Mycelium (TGMM) is more than you and me, we are all part of One.

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: explosiveoxygen]
    #11122856 -

explosiveoxygen said:
Lakefingers said:
And unfortunately many good things as well.


Explain your ideas about some good things that are literally impossible in a Free Market.


Yes, I'd like to hear this also...

What is it that you are unable to find in a free market?

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Re: Is Socialism Good *DELETED* [Re: the_conservatarian]
    #11129856 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

Edited by Lakefingers (09/26/09 04:48 AM)

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11130906 -

You may need to check this out before writing something like that again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market:slaves:


--------------------
The Great Mycelium (TGMM) is more than you and me, we are all part of One.

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: explosiveoxygen]
    #11131205 -

explosiveoxygen said:
You may need to check this out before writing something like that again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market:slaves:


I'm pretty sure he knows what a free market is(the question is, do you?).  What specifically in that article should he "check out"?  Where is he mistaken in his logic?


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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: Silversoul]
    #11131218 -

Silversoul said:
explosiveoxygen said:
You may need to check this out before writing something like that again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market:slaves:


I'm pretty sure he knows what a free market is(the question is, do you?).  What specifically in that article should he "check out"?  Where is he mistaken in his logic?


He talks about the free market as if it were a complete political ideology. Did you ever hear of the phrase "a fool is not known a fool until he speaks" ?


--------------------
The Great Mycelium (TGMM) is more than you and me, we are all part of One.

Edited by explosiveoxygen (09/26/09 12:46 PM)

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: explosiveoxygen]
    #11131254 -

I should say at this juncture that the pro-slavery south from the civil war was free trade and free market while the abolitionist north favored protectionist policies to build wage labor based industries...

Frankly I think asking, "what doesn't the free market provide?" is a misleading question. As it is quite clearly some of the things that the free market does "provide" that are completely undesirable.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: ScavengerType]
    #11131278 -

ScavengerType said:
I should say at this juncture that the pro-slavery south from the civil war was free trade and free market while the abolitionist north favored protectionist policies to build wage labor based industries...

Frankly I think asking, "what doesn't the free market provide?" is a misleading question. As it is quite clearly some of the things that the free market does "provide" that are completely undesirable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery


--------------------
The Great Mycelium (TGMM) is more than you and me, we are all part of One.

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Re: Is Socialism Good [Re: explosiveoxygen]
    #11131282 -

explosiveoxygen said:
He talks about the free market as if it were a complete political ideology. Did you ever hear of the phrase "a fool is not known a fool until he speaks" ?


I checked over his post again to make sure, and I don't see any of the shit you're talking about.  Maybe that's because you're the ideologue here.


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