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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Social/Cultural Change
    #4039169 - 04/11/05 12:57 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Is social/cultural change due more to the deeds of the next generation or to the dying off of the previous generation?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Sclorch]
    #4039175 - 04/11/05 12:58 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

The middle generation. The money-makers.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Sclorch]
    #4039246 - 04/11/05 01:13 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
Is social/cultural change due more to the deeds of the next generation or to the dying off of the previous generation?



yes


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Sclorch]
    #4039264 - 04/11/05 01:17 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Perhaps.....!    :grin:


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Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
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Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Sclorch]
    #4039309 - 04/11/05 01:25 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Yes.

Might want to refine your question a bit. A general question gets a general answer.


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinesoulmotion
Professor
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Registered: 11/30/04
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Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Silversoul]
    #4039354 - 04/11/05 01:36 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not very knowledgable on the subject of social anthropology, but it seems to me that the rising generation has a greater influence on social change. History has seen examples of the rising generation rebelling against the conventions of the previous generation, as well as examples of the younger generation-- for the most part-- maintaining the 'status quo' from their parent's generation.

I think that if the rising generation is inclined towards reform then it definitely helps to have the previous generation drop off, but that doesn't seem to me to be the most important component of change.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: soulmotion]
    #4039365 - 04/11/05 01:39 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

The thing is, the new generation doesn't just get their new ideas from nowhere. The new ideas are usually a response to other changes taking place in society. It's often said, for example, that the birth control pill started the sexual revolution.


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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
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Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: soulmotion]
    #4039371 - 04/11/05 01:41 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Change in the past as well as in the future is equally the same of "meaning" as in the now....  :heart:


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Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
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Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4039478 - 04/11/05 02:03 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Follow-up Questions:
Quote:

revolution - 3. a sudden or momentous change in a situation.
-Dictionary.com



1)a. Exactly how much change is needed or how significant must it be to fulfill the above definition (in objective terms)?
b.Are these parameters merely backwards-looking (chrono-specific requirements)?

2) Can a revolution ever really succeed or does it always just become the next stubborn platform?

3)a. If a revolution fails, can it still be considered a revolution?
b. If a revolution is successful, is not some of the meaning lost in the inevitability of the final outcome?


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Sclorch]
    #4039693 - 04/11/05 02:51 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

1) a. Dependant upon the society, and the cultural context will be a determinant of it. In societies that are indoctrinated with extremist religious ideals, it will prolly never come, as they expect to be treated like shit as it's a sign of the end times. Additionally it'd be good to know in what terms we're talking about revolution, as in a general context, it's fully dependant upon the nature of the dominant beliefs, as well as the opposition to the new beliefs/structure.
b. No time constraints necessarily, more so conditional parameters in terms of the society, and an action that would justify something would have to be deep rooted in a particular group that was able to get it's intent across without any opposition as to it's nature. (in terms of outright stomping out a movement which has been imposed through governmental sanctions on activites and idealogies repeatedly throughout history).

2) Dependant on whether the former structure is eliminated entirely, or it's way is thusly shown to be outdated and/or irrelevant in terms of the new structure attempting to form and change idealogies en masse as part of it's success. Additionally, the intent of it's creator, or more so it's dominant promotor/figurehead that will determine whether or not it is another stubborn platform.

3) a.Looks like a revolution, acts like a revolution, net result isn't a revolution... merely an insurrection.
b. Dependant upon the intent of the revolution... the meaning is lost only in way if the intent of the revolution was to bring about a revolution with nothing planned/organized afterwards. Much like playing a game and winning, yet taking home no prize, and not expecting to take anything from it to begin with. Their must be an established goal for a revolution in any form, or else the meaning of the revolution was lost to begin with.

My $0.02.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineCaptainJailew
Apathetic and Idon't care

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 398
Loc: Central Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4039790 - 04/11/05 03:14 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know, it seems like both generations would be to blame(?) or congratulated. The actions of the dying generation create situations which the new generation finds unacceptable, they revolt. The actual people who do the changing are the new generation, but the old generation is the catalyst for inspiring change.


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Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein



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InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Sclorch]
    #4039912 - 04/11/05 04:27 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
Follow-up Questions:
Quote:

revolution - 3. a sudden or momentous change in a situation.
-Dictionary.com



1)a. Exactly how much change is needed or how significant must it be to fulfill the above definition (in objective terms)? 
b.Are these parameters merely backwards-looking (chrono-specific requirements)?
.
2) Can a revolution ever really succeed or does it always just become the next stubborn platform?
.
3)a. If a revolution fails, can it still be considered a revolution?
b. If a revolution is successful, is not some of the meaning lost in the inevitability of the final outcome?



.
.
1a)  Meaning to any terms are subjective to interpretation/perspective, "defined" or not....  ---Subjective
Even the words of "Sudden" and "Momentous" are not really defined measurables for "meaning"....    ---Subjective
.
1b)  As time seems to be relative to ones chosen reality, nothing would seem to be "chono-logical"....  ---Subjective
.
2)  It depends on if a revolution makes way for a "positive", or "forward" evolution....  ---Subjective
.
3a)  Again, "meaning" to any terms are subjective to interpretation/perspective....  ---Subjective
.
3b)  The final outcome would hold the means to meaning, but what is ever "final"....?  ---Subjective
.
.
---Subjective = "Meaning to any terms are subjective to interpretation/perspective".... 
It would seem that all the answers ever given by anyone are all subjective to what meaning it holds by the "observer".... 
.
.
A person can drop a fist sized rock on the ground, and it may not really be perceived as momentous, nor a sudden change (revolution) by that person....  But the ant it landed on might have a different subjective opinion of the revolution that just occured....  :wink:    :heart:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: eMotionALLmotion]
    #4039918 - 04/11/05 04:32 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out the conservative adopts them."--Mark Twain


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Sclorch]
    #4040142 - 04/11/05 09:37 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Definately.

Very few young people hold traditional values. There are always some of course, however the liberals of today are tomorrow's conservative. Each generation seems to be more libertine than the previous.


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Sclorch]
    #4040592 - 04/11/05 12:38 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I think you kind of answered the question with a question. Wouldnt the past generations influence the present/younger generations, which, on a whole inevitably contribute to social and cultural change?

What is not solved in the past generations comes out kind of like the leftovers of a meal or an equation... whatever cant be solved will be programmed into the next. Is the situation dependent just as much on the remainder as what is taking over it?

Without the younger, current generations to carry over the information, how will any social cultural change take place?
What would you classify this type of "knowledge" under? What sorts of studies, Besides sociology, would you group this under?.. if you can.


Edited by Zero7a1 (04/11/05 12:54 PM)


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
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Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Zero7a1]
    #4040725 - 04/11/05 01:03 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Very balanced answers, people... that's a good thing.

Quote:

Is the situation dependent just as much on the remainder as what is taking over it?



This is an interesting tangent...
I suppose there is often a remainder of unsolved problems. But I don't think the remainder is a crucial issue. There will always be unanswered questions or, at least, more than we'll be able to answer before our sun burns out.

Quote:

Without the younger, current generations to carry over the information, how will any social cultural change take place?



I suppose a revolutionary thinker would possess both a progressive nature and a respect for history.

Quote:

What would you classify this type of "knowledge" under? What sorts of studies, Besides sociology, would you group this under?



I'd call it history.


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Sclorch]
    #4042464 - 04/11/05 08:46 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

This is an interesting tangent...
I suppose there is often a remainder of unsolved problems. But I don't think the remainder is a crucial issue. There will always be unanswered questions or, at least, more than we'll be able to answer before our sun burns out.





I guess what im trying to say is, there are things that each generation can not tackle, because either it is not defined yet, it is not needed, or it does not have any real applicability within a generation. As time moves on and these remainders are left over, they can either escalate into new social issues or phase out with the advancement of other social/cultural issues.

But i think, and in my opinion, its those of the brightest in the younger generation who will be able to interpret and understand the needs of that social/cultural system. These kind of unsolved problems present themselves, and especially in my experience, as things that need to be dealt with...

I think that just because something is not in the mainstream, does not keep it from being important or even essential. Some of the most innovative ideas have come from the most secluded of events out of history. It is when the information is put together and compiled by a person who can rationalize and interpret the information and put it to use that really hit things off.

A good example of this would be like, inventions, where people start to make breakthroughs that radically change the whole facet of a society, or all societies for that matter. It is when this happens that the old ways for doing something are phased out.

Maybe cultural social change is not necessarily defined by "younger or older" generations, but more of like what you said... A revolutionary who can be progressive while still understanding and appreciating the information that history has already presented.

This would prove to be the most efficient, because with new ideas that completely ignore the historical ways of doing things, completely, i think, ignores the whole reason for having this new "idea or invention" in the first place....


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Silversoul]
    #4042598 - 04/11/05 09:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

What will change for the better by my passing?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Swami]
    #4042645 - 04/11/05 09:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

More room for other animals and plants. :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Social/Cultural Change [Re: Icelander]
    #4042669 - 04/11/05 09:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Can I just diet instead? :frown:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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