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Why does anyone have responsibility to pay someone more than subsistence wage if people are willing to work for subsistence wage?

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This is the whole point of unions, and why capitalists try to dissolve them - they bind workers together into a group. As a group, the workers are definately needed and thus the capitalists must listen to their demands.

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fivepointer said:

No one is entitled to a subsistence wage in a free system.  Cut my lawn and Ill give you $50.00.  Say it takes the person a day to complete this job, but daily living expenses are $60.00.  That is not my problem. 

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It's obviously your problem if you intend on having your lawn cut every week. Only a fool will work a job that doesn't pay enough with which to subsist if they have other options, and, if they don't have other options, then we arise once again at the aforementioned presumed need that you will want your lawn cut every week.

You're correct, though. No one is entitled to have their lawn cut in a free system.

zouden said:

Unions are a critical part of the labour market.

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fireworks_god said:

fivepointer said:

No one is entitled to a subsistence wage in a free system.  Cut my lawn and Ill give you $50.00.  Say it takes the person a day to complete this job, but daily living expenses are $60.00.  That is not my problem. 

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It's obviously your problem if you intend on having your lawn cut every week. Only a fool will work a job that doesn't pay enough with which to subsist if they have other options, and, if they don't have other options, then we arise once again at the aforementioned presumed need that you will want your lawn cut every week.

You're correct, though. No one is entitled to have their lawn cut in a free system.

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In a situation of high general unemployment people might be willing to work for less than subsistence wages.  They would survive by working, selling assets, and donations from others.  It would not be "foolish" to work for less than subsistence if the alternative is homelessness and starvation.

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zouden said:

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In a situation of high general unemployment people might be willing to work for less than subsistence wages.  They would survive by working, selling assets, and donations from others.  It would not be "foolish" to work for less than subsistence if the alternative is homelessness and starvation.

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That's not the only alternative. The other alternative is require employers to pay more than $50 for 8 hours work. If they can't afford it, tough. That's the cost of doing business in a society that looks after its people. It works fine for most of the developed world (you know, the countries that are no longer in recession).

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zouden said:

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In a situation of high general unemployment people might be willing to work for less than subsistence wages.  They would survive by working, selling assets, and donations from others.  It would not be "foolish" to work for less than subsistence if the alternative is homelessness and starvation.

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That's not the only alternative. The other alternative is require employers to pay more than $50 for 8 hours work. If they can't afford it, tough. That's the cost of doing business in a society that looks after its people. It works fine for most of the developed world (you know, the countries that are no longer in recession).

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the_conservatarian said:

Another terrible point: "If they can't afford it, tough." Brilliant! Do you realize that under this plan the person who was willing to cut the lawn for $49 will then lose their job - and no longer earn a paycheck? Their children will now go hungry and go into poverty. Congratulations on your government mandated cradle of security!

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Supply/Demand is a science. Please do the math!

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So why not raise minimum wages to $100 per hour? We would have nirvana then.

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The socialist doesn't recognize the legitimacy of individual rights, since all rights are collectivist.  Rights are something that the individual really doesn't possess at all.  To them the collective, (the State), is the sole unit that decides what a right is.  All rights flow from the the State.  Collectivist thinking can permit any action by the State, since it can always be justified for the "greater good".  The perfect recipe for tyranny.

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Minimum wage laws directly abridge the individuals right to voluntary contract, which is the cornerstone of life and liberty

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