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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: MycoUnderground]
    #10876431 -

MycoUnderground said:
I don't usually say things like this because I hate to be rude but..OP has made himself look like a dumbass.

He thinks he can provide the answer to one of the greatest and most complex questions of all time with a few quotes from wikipedia and no evidence, evaluation or explanation.


Apparently he does not understand skepticism and scientific method.  If he really did he would not make absurd claims like this.



And apparently you don't understand this forum. It's not a science forum for scientist's its a fucking drug forum for wannabe's. IMO he was making it half in jest as he knew well his lack of expertise on this subject. I think he did a pretty good job considering.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: Fraggin]
    #10876491 -

I saw it more as him saying "this is the way it is" rather than "this is an idea I have."

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: Icelander]
    #10876512 -

Quote:
It's not a science forum for scientist's its a fucking drug forum for wannabe's.


All these years I was in the wrong place. :cryariver:


--------------------

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10876592 -

zouden said:
Oh I see. You're missing one of your other premises - that nothing can be created. This premise is false in the case of the beginning of the universe.


There is no such thing as the "beginning of the universe" because this implies non-existence, which is an impossible hypothetical phenomenon.


MycoUnderground said:
I don't usually say things like this because I hate to be rude but..OP has made himself look like a dumbass.

He thinks he can provide the answer to one of the greatest and most complex questions of all time with a few quotes from wikipedia and no evidence, evaluation or explanation.


Apparently he does not understand skepticism and scientific method.  If he really did he would not make absurd claims like this.


So far, nobody has rebutted my claim that non-existence is impossible; so long as this claim is true, the Big Bang theory is a false explanation for the "origin" of the universe. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: Icelander]
    #10876625 -

Icelander said:
MycoUnderground said:
I don't usually say things like this because I hate to be rude but..OP has made himself look like a dumbass.

He thinks he can provide the answer to one of the greatest and most complex questions of all time with a few quotes from wikipedia and no evidence, evaluation or explanation.


Apparently he does not understand skepticism and scientific method.  If he really did he would not make absurd claims like this.



And apparently you don't understand this forum. It's not a science forum for scientist's its a fucking drug forum for wannabe's. IMO he was making it half in jest as he knew well his lack of expertise on this subject. I think he did a pretty good job considering.


You're not making sense.

He was talking about a scientific theory.  So, I am going to talk about science.

It's not a "drug froum for wannabes."  If the forum is called "Philosophy, Sociology and Psychology" then that's what were going to talk about, and science is a part of that.

It's odd how your trying to defend this person while labeling him and everyone else here as wannabes.

Do you think that because the Shroomery is a drug-based site we can't have a real philosophical discussion?

Judging from the fact that the OP was truly trying to defend his idea he was not joking.

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: MycoUnderground]
    #10876691 -

MycoUnderground said:
Judging from the fact that the OP was truly trying to defend his idea he was not joking.


Judging from the fact that you won't or otherwise can't seem to disprove my claim that non-existence is an impossible hypothetical scenario, I don't think there's any room for you in my thread. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: MycoUnderground]
    #10876789 -

Your claim that non-existense is impossible and that the universe has been here forever makes no sense because it is completely untestable.  There is one refutation.

As many other people have said, NOWHERE in the Big Bang Theory is there the claim that there was "nothing" before it, and you seem to keep disregarding that.  This also refutes your claim.

Do you really think if the Big Bang Theory was as easily falsified as this poor attempt claims that many thousands of the brightest scientists, whose goal is the truth about the universe, would accept it?

If it was this easy for you to figure out, don't you think scientists would have at least thought of it?  And if their goal is the truth about the universe through logic and scientific method, don't you think if your claim was true, they would recognize and accept it?

Here's some advice:  Go read an acedemically accepted book about the Big Bang before you pretend to understand it by reading a Wikipedia article.  Wikipedia is not even considered a trusted source of information.

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: MycoUnderground]
    #10876803 -

At one time, wasn't spontaneous generation accepted as science?

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: MycoUnderground]
    #10876867 -

"Your claim that non-existense is impossible and that the universe has been here forever makes no sense because it is completely untestable.  There is one refutation."

It's not about testability, it's about logic; think about it, if the universe is finite, then what's on the other side?

What is the one refutation?


"As many other people have said, NOWHERE in the Big Bang Theory is there the claim that there was "nothing" before it, and you seem to keep disregarding that.  This also refutes your claim."

I never disregarded this argument, in fact, it was my counter-argument to this that was ignored:

Quote:
The Big Bang is the cosmological model of the initial conditions and subsequent development of the universe...


This doesn't make sense because if there were "initial conditions" of the universe, and if it "developed", this would mean that it didn't exist at some point.


"Do you really think if the Big Bang Theory was as easily falsified as this poor attempt claims that many thousands of the brightest scientists, whose goal is the truth about the universe, would accept it?

If it was this easy for you to figure out, don't you think scientists would have at least thought of it?  And if their goal is the truth about the universe through logic and scientific method, don't you think if your claim was true, they would recognize and accept it?

Here's some advice:  Go read an acedemically accepted book about the Big Bang before you pretend to understand it by reading a Wikipedia article.  Wikipedia is not even considered a trusted source of information."

All of this, obviously, is completely irrelevant, except for maybe the Wikipedia part. If you don't consider the Wikipedia quotes that I've posted in this thread to be reliable, then go and review their sources for yourself. If there is a specific claim in any of those quotes that you wish to refute, nobody's stopping you, if not, then I don't see how your opinion on Wikipedia's reliability is even relevant. :shrug:


Edited by Poid (08/17/09 04:28 PM)

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: Poid]
    #10876919 -

Poid said:
"Your claim that non-existense is impossible and that the universe has been here forever makes no sense because it is completely untestable.  There is one refutation."

It's not about testability, it's about logic; think about it, if the universe is finite, what's on the other side?

What is the one refutation?


"As many other people have said, NOWHERE in the Big Bang Theory is there the claim that there was "nothing" before it, and you seem to keep disregarding that.  This also refutes your claim."

I never disregarded this argument, in fact, it was my counter-argument to this that was ignored:

Quote:
The Big Bang is the cosmological model of the initial conditions and subsequent development of the universe...


This doesn't make sense because if there were "initial conditions" of the universe, and if it "developed", this would mean that it didn't exist at some point.


"Do you really think if the Big Bang Theory was as easily falsified as this poor attempt claims that many thousands of the brightest scientists, whose goal is the truth about the universe, would accept it?

If it was this easy for you to figure out, don't you think scientists would have at least thought of it?  And if their goal is the truth about the universe through logic and scientific method, don't you think if your claim was true, they would recognize and accept it?

Here's some advice:  Go read an acedemically accepted book about the Big Bang before you pretend to understand it by reading a Wikipedia article.  Wikipedia is not even considered a trusted source of information."

All of this, obviously, is completely irrelevant. :whatever:







I have heard somewhere that the universe is expanding faster than how it used to.  There must be something else besides just an initial bang going on if that is the case.

Also, science today is kind of sketchy...  "Scientists" are searching for "elusive & mysterious dark matter":rofl2:  Long story short religion has NOT cornered the market on dogma.......


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: Mr.Al]
    #10877089 -

It is all about testability.  How you can you say something is true if you can't physically show it?

Noone knows what is on the other side.  Becuase there is an edge of the universe that does not neccessarily mean there is "nothing" on the other side.  We don't know, nor does anyone else, and for the sake of this argument it needs to be left at that. 


That the universe had initial conditions and developed does not mean it did not exist at one point.  It just describes the way the universe was just after the singularity blew up into what we know today.  Thats it.

So, the singularity was there before the universe as we know it today.  That shows there was not nothing before the univrse, although there could have been nothing before the singularity, or maybe not.  The scientific community does not concern itself with this question now because we don't have enough data to do anything useful.

All of that is certainly not irrelevant.  You are trying to refute something that you don't even have a good understanding of.  A good book on the Big Bang will explain these propositions you have put forth.  Wikipedia can't tell you everything you need to know about the Big Bang.




Dark energy is what is making the universe expand.  This came from the Big Bang.  Dark matter is mysterious, and we know it is there.  It's not dogma.

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: Poid]
    #10877111 -

Mr.Al said:
Also, science today is kind of sketchy...  "Scientists" are searching for "elusive & mysterious dark matter":rofl2:  Long story short religion has NOT cornered the market on dogma.......


Unlike religion, we actually have ways of testing for dark matter. It might seem elusive and mysterious to you, but there's actually some pretty good theories about it.

Poid said:
So far, nobody has rebutted my claim that non-existence is impossible; so long as this claim is true, the Big Bang theory is a false explanation for the "origin" of the universe. :shrug:


I guess you must believe that unicorns exist. Because non-existence is impossible.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: MycoUnderground]
    #10877143 -

It's fucking "mysterious and elusive"!  :rofl2:


It's like some kind of "quantum ninja matter".

Basically, their math is supremely fucked so they fudge the numbers by saying "Uhhhhh, the universe is made up of about 80% of "elusive and mysterious" DARK MATTER.

It is so fucking elusive no one's found it yet.

BUT WE KNOW IT IS THERE!

GRRRRRRR.  HOW Dare YOU Question MY scientific DOGMA!

:hulk:


Holy shit, "Dark matter is mysterious.......":rofl2:

Edited by Mr.Al (08/17/09 05:07 PM)

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: MycoUnderground]
    #10877153 -

"It is all about testability.  How you can you say something is true if you can't physically show it?"

Why would you even go about testing something that has been philosophically proven to be impossible?


"Noone knows what is on the other side."

But you know that there is one, right?


"Becuase there is an edge of the universe that does not neccessarily mean there is "nothing" on the other side."

Read my definition of the term 'universe', then get back to me on this.


"That the universe had initial conditions and developed does not mean it did not exist at one point.  It just describes the way the universe was just after the singularity blew up into what we know today.  Thats it."

To say that something had initial conditions and that it was developed means that it didn't exist before these initial conditions and its development. That's it!


"So, the singularity was there before the universe as we know it today.  That shows there was not nothing before the univrse, although there could have been nothing before the singularity, or maybe not."

Why do you think that this singularity is not part of the universe? Again, refer to the definition of the term 'universe' which is in the OP.


All of that is certainly not irrelevant.  You are trying to refute something that you don't even have a good understanding of.  A good book on the Big Bang will explain these propositions you have put forth.  Wikipedia can't tell you everything you need to know about the Big Bang.

It is completely irrelevant to the argument; we are not arguing against individual posters in this forum, therefore, giving me advice about a book is irrelevant. If you have some information that you found in one of these books that you think would help your argument, then by all means present it.

I don't need to know everything about religions to know that God is not real. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: MycoUnderground]
    #10877168 -

MycoUnderground said:
Icelander said:
MycoUnderground said:
I don't usually say things like this because I hate to be rude but..OP has made himself look like a dumbass.

He thinks he can provide the answer to one of the greatest and most complex questions of all time with a few quotes from wikipedia and no evidence, evaluation or explanation.


Apparently he does not understand skepticism and scientific method.  If he really did he would not make absurd claims like this.



And apparently you don't understand this forum. It's not a science forum for scientist's its a fucking drug forum for wannabe's. IMO he was making it half in jest as he knew well his lack of expertise on this subject. I think he did a pretty good job considering.


You're not making sense.

He was talking about a scientific theory.  So, I am going to talk about science.

It's not a "drug froum for wannabes."  If the forum is called "Philosophy, Sociology and Psychology" then that's what were going to talk about, and science is a part of that.

It's odd how your trying to defend this person while labeling him and everyone else here as wannabes.

Do you think that because the Shroomery is a drug-based site we can't have a real philosophical discussion?

Judging from the fact that the OP was truly trying to defend his idea he was not joking.



Do you think that because the Shroomery is a drug-based site we can't have a real philosophical discussion?

Not so far.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: Poid]
    #10877187 -


It is completely irrelevant to the argument; we are not arguing against individual posters in this forum, therefore, giving me advice about a book is irrelevant. If you have some information that you found in one of these books that you think would help your argument, then by all means present it.

I don't need to know everything about religions to know that God is not real. :shrug:


Gee aren't you ashamed of yourself, being so uneducated, and still stumping these huge geniuses?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: Mr.Al]
    #10877220 -

Mr.Al said:
It's fucking "mysterious and elusive"!  :rofl2:


It's like some kind of "quantum ninja matter".

Basically, their math is supremely fucked so they fudge the numbers by saying "Uhhhhh, the universe is made up of about 80% of "elusive and mysterious" DARK MATTER.

It is so fucking elusive no one's found it yet.

BUT WE KNOW IT IS THERE!

GRRRRRRR.  HOW Dare YOU Question MY scientific DOGMA!

:hulk:


Holy shit, "Dark matter is mysterious.......":rofl2:


It's not quantum ninja matter. It's a form of matter that doesn't block light or reflect it, so it's invisible to us. The only way to detect it is through the gravitation force that it exerts. Dark matter is needed to explain the rotation of the galaxy.

Compare this to God, which has no way of being detected, and no need for his existence. How is dark matter in any way similar to religion?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: zouden]
    #10877267 -

Dark matter is needed

to explain the rotation of the galaxy.





Sounds a little suspicious to me.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: Poid]
    #10877299 -

I'm sorry, but I give up.  This will go on forever.  It's too draining to debate with you.



I'll let you go on thinking that you have single-handedly overthrown the conclusions of 99% of the astrophysical community, that took decades of painstaking research to develop, with nothing but your "logic."




On a more realistic and much less personal note, if you
really think you are right about this, you should pursue it.  If you truly are right, you will have completely rearranged what the world thinks is real and you will be considered one of the greatest minds in all of human history.

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Re: The Big Bang Theory is false [Re: Icelander]
    #10877304 -

And a wee bit racist.


--------------------

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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