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When you get the message, hang up the phone... * 1
    #9426299 -

Somehow, tripping every weekend for the rest of one's life seems not very enlightened.

At what point do these drugs cease being a tool for spiritual growth, and at what point do they start being a crutch for escape from sober reality?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: deCypher]
    #9426322 -

Probably after 3 or 4 trips.

I love escaping from sober reality. :cool:

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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #9426396 -

I don't really see how it would be counterproductive unless you are so damn committed at some point that you want to be spending your time doing good deeds instead.

It's a paradigm escape I guess, unlike booze or narcotics where you drug aspects of your character, with psych's you drug yourself into a perspective where you see a bigger picture.

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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: Epigallo]
    #9426413 -

Actually I guess if you have anything better to do, anything more personally important, then it is counterproductive at that time - it doesn't have to be a humanitarian effort.

I don't trip nearly enough.

Edited by Epigallo (12/13/08 07:59 PM)

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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: deCypher]
    #9426434 -

At the risk of sounding like a hippy, I personally believe that it is essentially a matter of respect.  I tend to think of psychedelics as entities (metaphorically of course).  In my experience, whenever I have gone into a psychedelic experience with an open mind and good intentions, I have been rewarded with profound insights and an opportunity to restructure my personality and literally change my life.

However, there have been times when after having an experience of this nature and realizing how rewarding it can be, I have gotten greedy, tripping more frequently to see what further rewards I could harvest from the experience.  To put it simply, even though I wasn't addicted or using the drugs every day, I was abusing them, and it was at this point that they started to "lose their magic."  I had begun to view LSD as a tool to be used for my own personal gain rather than a powerful entity deserving of respect.

"When you get the message, hang up the phone."

I think this is such a great quote in the context of psychedelics, as this was exactly the mistake that I made.  I got the message loud and clear, but I stayed on the phone waiting to hear more.

Edited by it stars saddam (12/13/08 08:39 PM)

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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: deCypher]
    #9426607 -

You'll probably settle down to 4 or 5 times a year... However, going a year or two with frequent trips is great. You'll look back on it as a landmark period in your life in the future.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: deCypher]
    #9426641 -

Good question, I wish I knew!

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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: deCypher]
    #9426921 -

What we really need to hang up is the phone of our negative actions and conditioned, neurotic, habitual behaviors and mental tendencies, with or without the aid of the psychedelic experience.

I have had the psychedelic phone hung up since August (it felt to me like a much longer time, wow!), unless you consider cannabis psychedelic.  I'm not at a detached enough place to analyze my habits and overall quality of life when using psychedelics regularly (I've never done them that regularly, anyway) versus when abstaining altogether.  But I feel they can be a hindrance or a boon, depending totally on the life situation of the person using them.


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: deCypher]
    #9427004 -

Quote:
When you get the message, hang up the phone...


This is why I only had sex once.

Of course, one should never use 'speed-dial' if you should wish to 'call'. again. :nono:


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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9427022 -

some people like to hang out in the land where the message came from


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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: Lion]
    #9427031 -

What's interesting is that I've never had what you would consider a "bad trip" on LSD; it's just that when I was using it indiscriminately, the experience seemed to be becoming increasingly less profound each time.

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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: deCypher]
    #9427068 -

deCypher said:
At what point do these drugs cease being a tool for spiritual growth, and at what point do they start being a crutch for escape from sober reality?

when you stop using it and start doing it like any other drug.

I did it every week for a few months and it was just a part of life. After a while I started getting the busy tone and then I felt I had been on the phone for too long and just stopped. :shrug:


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the greatest use of life is to spend it on something that will outlast it

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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9427126 -

it stars saddam said:
What's interesting is that I've never had what you would consider a "bad trip" on LSD; it's just that when I was using it indiscriminately, the experience seemed to be becoming increasingly less profound each time.


My first post on S&P was extraordinarily profound. My second post was half as profound. Now they are down to 1/23,416th as profound.


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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #9427227 -

Are you suggesting that the first experience seemed profound because it was new at the time?  If so, I would agree with that to an extent.  Obviously, indulging in any activity on a regular basis is going to cause it to lose its novelty.  However, I think that LSD and other psychedelics are unique in that when used in moderation, one can achieve the same level of "profundity" that he experienced during his first time experimenting with the drug in question, perhaps to an even greater extent.

I do not believe that this is true with marijuana.  Even if you only indulge once every few months, I think that once you have gotten high a certain number of times, it becomes impossible to recapture the level of euphoria that one experiences during his first few times using the drug.

I have no evidence for either of these claims.  They are based upon my own experiences and the testimonials of others.

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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9427300 -

Some of my most profound acid trips came from shortly before I hung up the phone, in spite of my cavalier use (about once a week for almost a year). I don't feel like the sense of profundity really diminishes, but eventually you run out of stuff to legitimately consider profound and things get ridiculous. You come to see frequent use as being a sophisticated pharmacological human equivalent to the dog chasing his own tail.

That said, I should be taking LSD again soon, on a camping trip. First time in six months. Can't wait.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: deCypher]
    #9427312 -

deCypher said:
Somehow, tripping every weekend for the rest of one's life seems not very enlightened.

At what point do these drugs cease being a tool for spiritual growth, and at what point do they start being a crutch for escape from sober reality?



Mmmm insightful post. Made me think.

What am I using this drug for? Is it my crutch to more easily handle this unforgiving life? Or am I still trying to learn?

I feel that each trip I take is an entirely new experience. Every tail end of the trip I think, "Man, that was totally different than all my other trips."

As long as I continue to bring information out of my trips with me, ideas, and good times, I feel its productive. When the time comes and I'm tripping to escape... can you blame me? This world is not so great. Everyone needs a vacation...


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I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.


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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9427315 -

I WANT FACTS DAMMIT! FACTS, YOU HEAR ME? :minigun:

OK, maybe you got this one right. My last two acid trips were only 25 years apart - no joke. And about 18 years apart for shrooms. Now, I may trip once or twice a year. I do not 'jones' for a trip, just when it seems appropriate; usually when I take a solo wilderness hike.


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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: deCypher]
    #9429775 -

I think you're just using the drugs too frequently, a week inbetween is not that much time. During the summer I found myself shrooming every weekend because there were so many people I wanted to shroom with individually. A month or two later and I was simply too accustomed to shrooming, I had built a tolerance and the profundity was gone. It doesn't mean it's gone forever, but with any drug (or state of mind) you have gotten accustomed and adjusted yourself, then you either need to slow down or take more. :shrug:


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Let's get the fuck out of here.

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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: deCypher]
    #9431290 -

As if there was only one caller!

That particular hotline for me is off the hook due to insufficient funds and insufficient contacts. The normal phone rings off the hook, leaving me staring blankly and silently into space with the receiver at my ear as the caller drones:

"This is what you're doing today. This is what you should be worried about. Do you have enough money? How's the job search? Are you hungry? Are you sure you have enough money? How are you going to budget it? What's the school schedule going to be? Why aren't you doing this? Why are you feeling low? Isn't it lame of you to feel low? What should you really be doing? How are you going to entertain yourself? Are you hungry? Are you sure you shouldn't be going to a better school? Doesn't school make you miserable anyway?" ad nauseam, so that I vomit out:

"Shut the fuck up already! I'm calling the other line!" and slam down the one receiver for the other.

If sober reality is breaking my legs, then damn right I'm going to use my crutches. Most of sober reality is escape itself, so by all means get in touch with what's really going on when feeling/thinking better. Ideally one must work within sobriety to deal effectively with the others, but that's no good unless you're planning on substantially reworking or transcending sober reality so that it becomes real instead of a charade.


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No debe haber separación, no puede haber definición.

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Re: When you get the message, hang up the phone... [Re: deCypher]
    #9431528 -

Once or twice a year is good for me. Its like hitting the reset button.

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