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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: gluke bastid]
    #9161376 -

And once again a member of this forum demonstrates his lack of reading comprehension.

No one here hates people who "have less money than them", they hate the Leftard politicians who want to take money from some folks and hand it to others. And they have contempt for the bums who demand the Leftard politicians do this. Not the same thing at all.

I don't hate Joe the Plumber, though he almost certainly has less money than I do. I don't hate Tito the Builder, though he's an immigrant  who almost certainly has less money than I do. I don't hate Redstorm, who certainly has less money than I do.

I do have contempt for the welfare Queens and Pogie bums (don't know if the phrase is the same in the US as it is in Canada ... in Canada back in the day unemployment insurance was called "pogie" or "pogey": as in "work just long enough in the winter to qualify for pogie than take the summer off and smoke dope and drink beer up at the lake.") who expect handouts as their due.

Quote:
...thinks that they are homeless and intentionally jobless...


I knew many people who were intentionally jobless. I mean as in knew them well - they were people I went to high school with and smoked dope with and went to the same concerts and parties with. Hell, I have  one relative who to this day is intentionally jobless as often as he can get away with it. What I find insulting is the posters here who think we're stupid enough to buy into the myth that there are no folks like that.... that people in poor financial shape are in that position for reasons other than their own bad decision-making. While there are in fact some people like that, they are vastly outnumbered by those who are poor because they have made poor choices.

So take your pious whining about the "mean-hearted" conservatives here and blow it out some other orifice at someone who actually is dim enough to fall for your ass wind.





Phred


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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: Phred]
    #9161461 -

I did not read rest of this thread, as I am sure the question which I came to talk about has drifted off at some point preceding my post.

To be afraid of socialism, shouldn't one first educate themselves on true socialism doctrine / theory e.g. communist manifesto or some Durkheim .. Read the actual policies of Barrack Obama, and for that matter, John McCain, before we start we start repeating campaign rhetoric as fact? If someone can show Obama policy that is an obvious a socialist policy love to hear it.

Please, don't use "spreading the wealth" because switching back to a progressive tax system, the kind we had before the country ran into the gutter after we switched to a regressive tax system (less money = greater ratio of income brackets), have those Bush tax cuts trickled down to you yet? Show me Comrade Obama

Edited by born907 (10/30/08 09:45 PM)

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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: born907]
    #9161525 -

Obama is a redistributionist. Always has been from as far back as any of his published speeches and writings we can find. His mentors likewise - Frank, Jeremiah, Billie Boy Ayers.

Obama has stated - repeatedly - the "wealthy" should be taxed not in order to fund the necessary and legitimate functions of government, but to achieve "fairness".

As I have stated here countless times - and I grow weary of repeating myself - does that mean the first thing he'll do is direct idiot Pelosi and imbecile Reid to write legislation nationalizing the coal mines and the shipyards? No. So in that sense he's not an old school doctrinaire Marxist. But that's just details. The basic principle is the same - Obama doesn't believe your stuff is really yours.  He believes it's really the government's to do with as they see fit. This makes him a Collectivist.

I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut if you want to call him a Marxist or a Communist or a Democratic Socialist or a Market Socialist or a Fascist or an Anarcho-Syndicalist or a Communalist or a ParEconist or whatever other flavor of Collectivism you think most closely fits - the differences between them are trivial variations on the fundamental theme : your stuff isn't really your stuff at all, we (the government) just find it more convenient at this time to let you believe it is your stuff.





Phred


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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: zouden]
    #9161534 -

zouden said:
Quote:
I see those guys with the 'will work for food' signs, I offer
them a good days pay for a day of work, I've only had 2
accept the offer, they arent always less fortunate and for
those that are just lazy, let nature take it's course


And you're using that experience to generalise about everyone in the bottom three tax brackets? The majority of the US population?




I spent most of my life in the poverty level, mother earning
$6k/year and supporting 4 kids, she never bought for herself
and most of what I had were used clothes, my new clothes were
made by her. everything she owned was donated with the
exception of the $400 car she bought and drove for 15 years


one thing I know is that she never missed a day of work if
there was any way she could possibly make it, she suffered a
broken knee and that put her down for 3 months, her work
ethic rubbed off.

I'm not claiming that the majority of people receiving
government aid are unwilling to work but I've known far too
many that were more than capable, had the opportunity and
some even had jobs but they'd limit the hours so they could
keep drawing the money, many others worked under the table
and still drew the money so unlike the bums that zappa refers
to, theres a good many that do work but they still abuse the
system... theres a thousand ways to do it,


hell I'm eligible for welfare because I have no income, do you think I'm going to draw from the pool that some one else may actually need, I'm more than capable of supporting myself without it because I'm resourceful and I use that to my advantage


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: born907]
    #9161572 -

born907 said:
have those Bush tax cuts trickled down to you yet?


yes they have, my last employer was able to finish paying off
machinery and update some that was falling apart, he was able
to give everyone in the shop a raise because we all busted
our asses as a team and completed one of his most important
jobs earlier than was promised with fewer mistakes than was
expected

that raise was one of 8 I received that year, without those
tax cuts, I wouldnt have gotten those raises because he'd
still be paying on those machines


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9161672 -

Redistributionist? His career began under the Bush tax cuts. He is proposing to go back in our previous direction.

"Super-rich pay lower tax rates than everyone else, and $1m to the person who proves me wrong"  - Warren Buffett


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Don't look at me, I grow edible :mushroom2:

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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: born907]
    #9161942 -

You brag of not having read the thread, then start making challenges already handled earlier in the thread and in many other threads in the forum.

Do your homework before posting again on this topic, please.





Phred


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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: Phred]
    #9162806 -

Quote:
Obama doesn't believe your stuff is really yours.  He believes it's really the government's to do with as they see fit. This makes him a Collectivist.


Along with every other politician that believes in income tax.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: Phred]
    #9162880 -

Yeah I'm still failing to see where you guys draw the line between taxes and socialism. Enlighten me.


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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #9162915 -

It's not like Obama's tax rate hike for the ultra-rich is in anyway unprecedented - it's just reversing Bush's tax cut. That's not Marxism, it's a policy change, geez.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #9163154 -

Quote:
Yeah I'm still failing to see where you guys draw the line between taxes and socialism.


What the taxes are spent on.

Funding a judicial system and a military with taxes is not a Collectivist action. Taking money from someone who makes a hundred grand a year and handing it to someone who makes ten grand a year is a Collectivist action.




Phred


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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: Phred]
    #9163337 -

So giving someone a tax cut is just handing them money? We're not talking about welfare, merely altering the income tax rates.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: Phred]
    #9163358 -

All of Obama's economic advisers are neoclassical or neoliberal economists...

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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: zouden]
    #9163485 -

zouden said:
So giving someone a tax cut is just handing them money? We're not talking about welfare


phred was talking about welfare, what is socialism... welfare is socialism


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9166866 -

Yes, I understand that, but somehow the topic drifted into income tax, nevermind.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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