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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Icelander]
    #8286603 - 04/15/08 01:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


Why does my name appear in the reply to when the quotes are Phred's? Not that I disagree with anything he has said, nor would I presume to speak for him, but I will nonetheless take the opportunity to fisk your incredibly absurd gyroscope of a post. Thus:





Because I typed my reply into the "Quick Reply" box.

Quote:


Crypto_marxist: I will direct your attention to his direct channeling of the heinous slug Karl Marx's dicta that religion is the opiate of the masses. When times are tough, Obama opines, the aggrieved cleave unto their god for solace. Positively cling to it. This he said. Let us compare it to this:
“Religious suffering is at the same time an expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the sentiment of a heartless world, and the soul of a soulless condition. It is the opium of the people.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/opinion/14kristol.html?_r=1&oref=slogin




Don't cite Bill Kristol; he's barely a step above Anne Coulter. The fact that you don't see the difference between the two quotes means you have no business interpreting Marx(or anything for that matter). The full quote is:

Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.
Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people [Emphasis added]
The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.


If you can't tell a difference between that and "religion comforts people in times of need and uncertainty", I don't know what to say.

Quote:


I'm going to slice out the offending part of that since you can't seem to find it for yourself:

where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding

Nobody other than you is misunderstanding, Barry. They just don't want your commie crap and they don't want your fucking help and they don't want to hear any more bullshit from lying douchebag politicians like yourself telling them that their life sucks and you're going to make it better. It doesn't and you're not




You sound like the crazy guy on the streetcorner ranting about the impending apocalypse. By the way, the "people" he's referring to are the people who claim that his main obstacle is his race, or at least those who believe in rigid demographic patterns(ie, blacks vote for Obama, poor whites vote for Clinton, etc.) So he's saying the exact opposite of what you're claiming. Who has reading problems again?

Quote:



Except they haven't made pleas for the kind of change he wants to bring, shudder. These people want the federal government to just go away as much as possible. They don't want your fucking help, they would just as soon do it themselves, and you and your commie ilk can fuck off forever. Does that make them stoopit? NO. It makes them honorable. Any of them that want that horrorshow can move to DC. Does this Barrydouche think he can make them all rich?




You've made a concrete assertion. Now back it up. Show that the vast majority of white working class residents of the rust belt support laissez-faire capitalism and want less government aid and support. Do it. I'm waiting. Also, nice strawman in the last part.

Quote:

So the same shit came out of another commie douche's mouth. What a surprise. And Obama actually is writing them off as hicks. IT'S WHAT HE SAID.




Commie douche. Classy and insightful!

Quote:


People are not willing to share anything with illegal aliens, in good or bad. You and the NY Times seem to have an odd inability to comprehend that word. Must be dyslexia.




People can immigrate illegally, but they are not illegal. Illegal is an adjective, not an adverb and while actions and inert objects can be illegal, no person is illegal. They are undocumented. Also, nobody's talking about "sharing" with them we're talking about tolerance and compassion. But you'd know nothing about that. Also, illegal immigration is the furthest thing from "freeloading" nor does it have any significant effects on unemployment levels or wage rates.

Quote:


Yep, you are dyslexic. You have no comprehension of the English Language. Undocumented does not substitute for Illegal. Undocumented is someone who lost his passport. Illegal is a criminal.




Apparently you're too lazy or stupid to look up what dyslexia means. Also, an immigrant who lost their passport is an immigrant waiting for their passport to arrive from their embassy, not an undocumented immigrant.


Edited by Yossarian22 (04/15/08 02:09 PM)


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OfflineYossarian22
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Registered: 09/12/07
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8286632 - 04/15/08 02:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And it seems voters are furious, absolutely furious. How dare Obama claim they're bitter and feel betrayed by mainstream politics? Certainly their fury shall rain from the heavens and cause a veritable tidal wave in the polls. Or not:

Quote:

Interest in Barack Obama's "bitter" comments have left the political world with bated breath, wondering what the polls say. Since the story broke on Friday, the chattering class has speculated at length about how voters might respond to the remarks (and the overheated coverage of said remarks), without having any idea whether anyone would actually care as much as they do.

The Washington Post's Chris Cillizza noted this morning that if the polls show Hillary Clinton getting a significant bump in the polls, "bitter-gate" will look like "a seminal moment in the campaign," and may even doom Obama's campaign. If she doesn't, "all of this will quickly be relegated to the dustbin of history as much sound and fury signifying nothing."

So, what's the verdict? At this point, the data points towards the latter. Eric Kleefeld reported:

The Pennsylvania polls are coming fast and furious today -- and while most show a slight uptick in support for Hillary, they all appear to indicate that Obama's "small town" comments are not yet causing any big movement.

SurveyUSA shows Obama gaining a couple of points, with a strong majority of Pennsylvanians saying they weren't offended by the remarks. Rasmussen shows Clinton gaining a couple of points, with a plurality concluding that Obama's comments were not "elitist." Quinnipiac, meanwhile, shows no change at all.

What about the national picture? The Gallup Daily Tracking poll shows Obama maintaining his lead, with "a 51% to 40% margin in the April 12-14 average." The 11-point margin in the poll, taken in the midst of the media flare-up, "is the largest for Obama this year, and marks the ninth consecutive day in which Obama has led Clinton by a statistically significant margin."

Obviously, the landscape could change. Voters who weren't following the news over the weekend may learn about the story and feel insulted.

That said, as campaign-changing moments go, this flap is starting to look a little underwhelming, at least for now.




Edited by Yossarian22 (04/15/08 02:17 PM)


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Offlinesupernovasky
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8286652 - 04/15/08 02:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


You've made a concrete assertion. Now back it up. Show that the vast majority of white working class residents of the rust belt support laissez-faire capitalism and want less government aid and support. Do it. I'm waiting. Also, nice strawman.




Don't even bother asking. Asking Zappa to back something he says up is useless. Just take a quick look at the global warming megathread.

Otherwise, you seem to have a good handle on things here. I really am not to keen on all of this stupid hot-button distractions. Quite honestly, every time something like this comes up (for all three candidates), I wonder why it gets more air play than the real issues, like our falling dollar, our global climate change, and the continuing cost of a pointless war.

Seems like its just politics of old.
Not the kind of politics I will support.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: supernovasky]
    #8286798 - 04/15/08 02:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"It's not surprising, then, that they get Bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama


"or anti-trade sentiment"

anti-trade sentiment???????


WTF

Obama is not big pro free trade guy?

Is he?


Columbia trade deal....


Nafta....


Does that make Obama one of the Guns-God-Bitter folks???


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8286906 - 04/15/08 03:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
And it seems voters are furious, absolutely furious. How dare Obama claim they're bitter and feel betrayed by mainstream politics? Certainly their fury shall rain from the heavens and cause a veritable tidal wave in the polls. Or not:

Quote:

Interest in Barack Obama's "bitter" comments have left the political world with bated breath, wondering what the polls say. Since the story broke on Friday, the chattering class has speculated at length about how voters might respond to the remarks (and the overheated coverage of said remarks), without having any idea whether anyone would actually care as much as they do.

The Washington Post's Chris Cillizza noted this morning that if the polls show Hillary Clinton getting a significant bump in the polls, "bitter-gate" will look like "a seminal moment in the campaign," and may even doom Obama's campaign. If she doesn't, "all of this will quickly be relegated to the dustbin of history as much sound and fury signifying nothing."

So, what's the verdict? At this point, the data points towards the latter. Eric Kleefeld reported:

The Pennsylvania polls are coming fast and furious today -- and while most show a slight uptick in support for Hillary, they all appear to indicate that Obama's "small town" comments are not yet causing any big movement.

SurveyUSA shows Obama gaining a couple of points, with a strong majority of Pennsylvanians saying they weren't offended by the remarks. Rasmussen shows Clinton gaining a couple of points, with a plurality concluding that Obama's comments were not "elitist." Quinnipiac, meanwhile, shows no change at all.

What about the national picture? The Gallup Daily Tracking poll shows Obama maintaining his lead, with "a 51% to 40% margin in the April 12-14 average." The 11-point margin in the poll, taken in the midst of the media flare-up, "is the largest for Obama this year, and marks the ninth consecutive day in which Obama has led Clinton by a statistically significant margin."

Obviously, the landscape could change. Voters who weren't following the news over the weekend may learn about the story and feel insulted.

That said, as campaign-changing moments go, this flap is starting to look a little underwhelming, at least for now.








The majority of Pennsylvanians WOULD agree with his remarks, because they don't apply to them.
Because the majority of Pennslyvanians don't live in small towns. They're from Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Allentown, Erie, Reading, Scranton, Bethlehem, Lancaster, Altoona, and Harrisburg... and they tend to look down upon those poor backwards folk living out in the middle of nowhere.
My aunt lives in Harrisburg, heard the remarks, and thought they were accurate and not insulting. She likes Obama and is pretty left anyway.
My dad lives here, heard the remarks, and thought they were condescending and high-handed. He very much does not like Obama -- not even more than Hillary (pick between eating a rotten apple and a rotten pear).

So the people who live in cities and were not the target of Obama's disparaging remarks are no less likely to vote for him, but probably little more likely.
People who live in more rural areas who were the target of Obama's remarks and who already weren't going to vote for him, are still not going to vote for him.

I've not yet met anyone from Small Town, PA who was going to vote for Obama. I'd like to hear their take on things.


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #8287023 - 04/15/08 04:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But that's not what the polls are saying: they're not just saying "the majority of Pennsylvanians agree"; they're also saying that the remarks didn't cause any significant drop in his support. So either big-city Pennsylvanians are more attracted to him because of the statements or nobody really cares.


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8287095 - 04/15/08 04:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Let's be clear.
He wasn't getting much support to begin with from the people he was denigrating.
He's still behind Hillary here.

And considering how polarized this whole thing is -- you HATE hillary, or you LOVE hillary, or you LOVE obama or whatever -- it's not too shocking that the Obama love fest crowd is unphased by this whole fiasco and that he's not lost any ground. He's just pissed off people who *haven't* decided they're voting for Obama.


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #8287125 - 04/15/08 04:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Or, alternatively: the only people who took offense were the people who didn't like Obama to begin with and who were looking for an excuse to bash him. By the way, he didn't denigrate anyone in his comments, so stop referring to them as "he people he was denigrating".


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8287142 - 04/15/08 04:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Quote:


Crypto_marxist: I will direct your attention to his direct channeling of the heinous slug Karl Marx's dicta that religion is the opiate of the masses. When times are tough, Obama opines, the aggrieved cleave unto their god for solace. Positively cling to it. This he said. Let us compare it to this:
“Religious suffering is at the same time an expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the sentiment of a heartless world, and the soul of a soulless condition. It is the opium of the people.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/opinion/14kristol.html?_r=1&oref=slogin




Don't cite Bill Kristol; he's barely a step above Anne Coulter. The fact that you don't see the difference between the two quotes means you have no business interpreting Marx(or anything for that matter). The full quote is:

Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.
Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people [Emphasis added]
The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.


If you can't tell a difference between that and "religion comforts people in times of need and uncertainty", I don't know what to say.




I only used Kristol because he was a handy source of Marx's words. And I do in fact believe that "religion comforts people in times of need and uncertainty" is an absolutely accurate assessment of what Marx said. Also, an accurate assessment of what Barry said. But that is not all that Barry said. Barry said that their clinging to religion is a result of their fallen economic state. Well off religious people might beg to differ. I personally have no use for religion, but this charlatan has made a show of his religion, as ugly as it is(Rev Wright), and then comes out saying that people are religious because they are bitter because nobody has been there to give them presents. Not really gonna fly very far.
Quote:



Quote:


I'm going to slice out the offending part of that since you can't seem to find it for yourself:

where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding

Nobody other than you is misunderstanding, Barry. They just don't want your commie crap and they don't want your fucking help and they don't want to hear any more bullshit from lying douchebag politicians like yourself telling them that their life sucks and you're going to make it better. It doesn't and you're not




You sound like the crazy guy on the streetcorner ranting about the impending apocalypse. By the way, the "people" he's referring to are the people who claim that his main obstacle is his race, or at least those who believe in rigid demographic patterns(ie, blacks vote for Obama, poor whites vote for Clinton, etc.) So he's saying the exact opposite of what you're claiming. Who has reading problems again?




The person who claims his main obstacle is race is Barry. Let me reiterate, Barry said that it was more difficult for them to accept his message because it came from a black man. You can leave that part out but it won't make it go away.
Quote:



Quote:



Except they haven't made pleas for the kind of change he wants to bring, shudder. These people want the federal government to just go away as much as possible. They don't want your fucking help, they would just as soon do it themselves, and you and your commie ilk can fuck off forever. Does that make them stoopit? NO. It makes them honorable. Any of them that want that horrorshow can move to DC. Does this Barrydouche think he can make them all rich?




You've made a concrete assertion. Now back it up. Show that the vast majority of white working class residents of the rust belt support laissez-faire capitalism and want less government aid and support. Do it. I'm waiting. Also, nice strawman in the last part.




In case you haven't noticed, they keep voting Republican. Works for me.
Quote:



Quote:

So the same shit came out of another commie douche's mouth. What a surprise. And Obama actually is writing them off as hicks. IT'S WHAT HE SAID.




Commie douche. Classy and insightful!


More insightful than your citation of the commie douche
Quote:



Quote:


People are not willing to share anything with illegal aliens, in good or bad. You and the NY Times seem to have an odd inability to comprehend that word. Must be dyslexia.




People can immigrate illegally, but they are not illegal. Illegal is an adjective, not an adverb and while actions and inert objects can be illegal, no person is illegal. They are undocumented. Also, nobody's talking about "sharing" with them we're talking about tolerance and compassion. But you'd know nothing about that. Also, illegal immigration is the furthest thing from "freeloading" nor does it have any significant effects on unemployment levels or wage rates.




Holy shit what a bunch of pompous twaddle.



Quote:


Yep, you are dyslexic. You have no comprehension of the English Language. Undocumented does not substitute for Illegal. Undocumented is someone who lost his passport. Illegal is a criminal.




Apparently you're too lazy or stupid to look up what dyslexia means. Also, an immigrant who lost their passport is an immigrant waiting for their passport to arrive from their embassy, not an undocumented immigrant.




If they don't have their document, they are undocumented. As a subset of undocumented aliens, there are those who crossed the border without passing through the proper portals. Another subset is those who passed through properly but have overstayed their permitted time period. Another subset is those who are working without proper work visas. Some persons may be members of more than one subset. I may be missing a subset but the members of anyone of those three that I mentioned are in violation of current US law. They are performing illegal acts and are thus criminals. Capisce? But you are right about one thing. They don't have much impact on wages for the stupid bitter people who can't understand a message that is discredited since time immemorial because it is a black messiah delivering it.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8287177 - 04/15/08 04:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Or, alternatively: the only people who took offense were the people who didn't like Obama to begin with and who were looking for an excuse to bash him. 




Don't forget the paid actors in Hillary's television ad. :wink:


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8287223 - 04/15/08 05:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


I only used Kristol because he was a handy source of Marx's words. And I do in fact believe that "religion comforts people in times of need and uncertainty" is an absolutely accurate assessment of what Marx said.




Well, you're wrong. You don't know shit about Marx and you don't know how to read. Sorry to break it to you;

Quote:

Barry said that their clinging to religion is a result of their fallen economic state. Well off religious people might beg to differ. I personally have no use for religion, but this charlatan has made a show of his religion, as ugly as it is(Rev Wright), and then comes out saying that people are religious because they are bitter because nobody has been there to give them presents. Not really gonna fly very far.




That's not what he said. He has specifically clarified that's not what he means and it's clear from the quote that's not what he means. Just because you want that to be what he said doesn't make it so.

Quote:


The person who claims his main obstacle is race is Barry. Let me reiterate, Barry said that it was more difficult for them to accept his message because it came from a black man. You can leave that part out but it won't make it go away.




What Obama said:
Quote:

So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.




You're wrong and it couldn't be clearer. Learn to read.

Quote:

In case you haven't noticed, they keep voting Republican. Works for me.




No. This is a bullshit copout. You made a claim, now defend it. Show me EVIDENCE that you weren't just spewing verbal diarrhea. SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE. You claimed that white working class voters in the Rust Belt wanted less government aid and support. That's not the same thing as voting Republican. So once again back that shit up or admit you were lying out your ass. I'm still waiting.

Quote:

More insightful than your citation of the commie douche




I know you are but what am I?

Quote:



If they don't have their document, they are undocumented. As a subset of undocumented aliens, there are those who crossed the border without passing through the proper portals. Another subset is those who passed through properly but have overstayed their permitted time period. Another subset is those who are working without proper work visas. Some persons may be members of more than one subset. I may be missing a subset but the members of anyone of those three that I mentioned are in violation of current US law. They are performing illegal acts and are thus criminals. Capisce? But you are right about one thing. They don't have much impact on wages for the stupid bitter people who can't understand a message that is discredited since time immemorial because it is a black messiah delivering it.




No; if they don't have their passport on them but they've still applied for residency, they're on the record and thus they're not undocumented. Also, all three of those subsets would be considered "illegal immigrants" as it's commonly used. Unless of course it's just code for "them Mexicans". You may call them criminals, but then again, you're posting on a forum dedicated to the manufacture of a schedule I controlled substance so I wouldn't go around throwing stones. They are however not illegal, because a person cannot be illegal. They may have immigrated illegally(mainly because it's impossible to immigrate legally for almost all of them) but they themselves are not illegal. You started this semantic bullshit, so don't go calling my response "pompous twaddle". Also your last sentence makes no sense.

So until you back up your assertions, you have absolutely no credibility. You make dramatic claims with no support, and your arguing tactics are less developed than a fifth grader's. So either back up your statements or stop posting.


Edited by Yossarian22 (04/15/08 05:09 PM)


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8287318 - 04/15/08 05:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Or, alternatively: the only people who took offense were the people who didn't like Obama to begin with and who were looking for an excuse to bash him. By the way, he didn't denigrate anyone in his comments, so stop referring to them as "he people he was denigrating".





.. except he did, and that's how it's being interpreted so even if he didn't, he did.


Tell me, did or did not someone get fired for saying the word "Niggardly" in front of a black man? Is that word denigrating? No? But it was TAKEN to be insulting, and there were consequences.
What you say is less important than how others interpret what you say.

.. and all that is moot, since he was being condescending.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #8287403 - 04/15/08 05:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mushmonkey said:
Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Or, alternatively: the only people who took offense were the people who didn't like Obama to begin with and who were looking for an excuse to bash him. By the way, he didn't denigrate anyone in his comments, so stop referring to them as "he people he was denigrating".





.. except he did, and that's how it's being interpreted so even if he didn't, he did.


Tell me, did or did not someone get fired for saying the word "Niggardly" in front of a black man? Is that word denigrating? No? But it was TAKEN to be insulting, and there were consequences.
What you say is less important than how others interpret what you say.

.. and all that is moot, since he was being condescending.





who got fired?

Irregardless,no, the intent of the speaker or actor is what we should recognize, as well as logic.

Saying niggardly isn't per se an intent to cause harm, and it shouldn't be interpreted as such


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #8287411 - 04/15/08 05:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No, he wasn't. He was trying to explain to people from across the country the reason why the political atmosphere in Pennsylvania is the way it is. The attitude he was trying to dispel was that they're just stupid hicks, so forget about them. He said, no, they've got a right to be cynical and angry and this cynicism and anger has political consequences; if we want to get their support, we've got to earn it by showing that the government can help them. He worded it awkwardly, but you can still tell what he meant, and if that's not enough, he even clarified it and stated point blank what he meant.

I don't know what "niggardly" has to do with it- if somebody got fired for using that word, that's bullshit but I don't see the connection. I realize that perception matters and that Clinton and McCain are spinning like crazy, but it doesn't seem to be working since it hasn't hurt him either nationally or locally. So if perception's everything, it's pretty clear that it's not really being perceived as condescending, is it?


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: johnm214]
    #8287662 - 04/15/08 06:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

johnm214 writes:

Quote:

And Phred, come one man, can we quit w/ the LIberal name calling? I don't really see what this accomplishes other than being a taunt. It seems as anyone who doesn't see the relevance of this quote as to the candidates suitability for office, rather than popular appeal, must be a liberal to you. Come off it.




It's not name-calling. It's an accurate observation that Libbies and Cons look at things differently. As some of the earliest posts in the thread point out, Libbies don't get what the fuss is all about because they agree 100% with what Obama said. Several of the members in this thread have made a point of claiming that they have lived among "these people" all (or nearly all) their lives, and that "these people" are precisely as Obama described them -- bible thumping, gun hugging, racist xenophobes.

So when yet another member declares yet again in so many words, "What's the fuss about? He's only telling the truth," I point out that of course he believes Obama's words to be truthful -- that he as a fellow Libby holds the same condescending attitude toward the flyover people that Obama does.




Phred


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8287707 - 04/15/08 06:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
So when yet another member declares yet again in so many words, "What's the fuss about? He's only telling the truth," I point out that of course he believes Obama's words to be truthful -- that he as a fellow Libby holds the same condescending attitude toward the flyover people that Obama does.





Whether or not one trusts the validity of Obama's observation has absolutely nothing to do with political affiliation. Do you honestly believe that no conservative "elitists" share this sentiment? How ignorant of a claim are you attempting to make?


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: SoY]
    #8288248 - 04/15/08 08:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SoY said:
Quote:

Phred said:
So when yet another member declares yet again in so many words, "What's the fuss about? He's only telling the truth," I point out that of course he believes Obama's words to be truthful -- that he as a fellow Libby holds the same condescending attitude toward the flyover people that Obama does.





Whether or not one trusts the validity of Obama's observation has absolutely nothing to do with political affiliation.  Do you honestly believe that no conservative "elitists" share this sentiment?  How ignorant of a claim are you attempting to make?




:thumbup:

It's exactly this kind of black and white thinking that most people concerned with their political affiliation seem to use. It's so irrational that I have basically lost hope for this country. If it ain't politics it's religion. If this is the best humanity has got thank goodness I've got my fiddle ready.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8288619 - 04/15/08 10:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:

So when yet another member declares yet again in so many words, "What's the fuss about? He's only telling the truth," I point out that of course he believes Obama's words to be truthful -- that he as a fellow Libby holds the same condescending attitude toward the flyover people that Obama does.

Phred




Its Amazing.

Even Obama who is running for the President of the united states does not understand how he has insulted these people!

Barack Hussein Obama is an idiot.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8288657 - 04/15/08 10:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I also don't understand how he has "insulted" these people.

From my experience growing up in the Bible belt it's always been true. Guns and fucking religion. Oh and lots of alcohol.:thumbup: America the beautiful.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: SoY]
    #8288734 - 04/15/08 10:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Do you honestly believe that no conservative "elitists" share this sentiment?




Not real familiar with the rules of logic, are you?

But as it happens, I think it highly unlikely many conservatives believe the reason people in small town America are religious and like to hunt is because the jobs their fathers worked twenty-five years ago aren't here any longer, no.




Phred


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