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OfflinePhred
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Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' ...
    #8270566 - 04/11/08 07:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

...Cousin'-Pokin' Inbred Hillbilly Racist Morons

From http://ace.mu.nu/archives/259984.php

Well, it is what he said, more or less.

Actually he said this at a San Fransisco fundraiser (of course), but I can't wait 'till Pennsylvanians hear about this. Obama on the "resentments" of small-town Pennsylvanians:


Quote:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.




Nevermind all that stalking and sodomizing of city-slickers from Atlanta.

This isn't Obama "misspeaking," either. Remember, in that speech on race -- the greatest speech since Abraham Lincoln -- he first seemed to allow that white Americans had legitimate complaints about affirmative action and black crime rates, but then claimed those frustrations were actually misdirected anger about corporations.

This is pure leftist cant -- it's all "false consciousness" stuff, all what our Corporate Masters want us to think, playing us all against each other as they line their pockets with our sweat and tears.

Guns, border security, even religion itself aren't really legitimate points of interest. Instead they're all part of the "culture of fear" indoctrinated into us by the corporate emperors really running this country.

****************************************
Obama's Political Education: Here is exclusive archival footage of Obama being groomed for his candidacy by ace campaign manager David Axelrod:





Much, much more at the link. Click it.... you know you want to.



Phred


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' ... [Re: Phred]
    #8270666 - 04/11/08 07:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:

Well, it is what he said, more or less.




No it isn't. It can't even be misinterpreted to be anything similar to that, only pretended to be by those who really, really, try hard and who are wanting so badly to believe this candidate will not succeed that they are willing to delude themselves. There's not even any appeal for votes there, disguised, undisguised, or otherwise implied.



Quote:

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.




That's an insightful observation from Obama.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' ... [Re: Phred]
    #8270677 - 04/11/08 07:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."


Obama Said:
"antipathy to people who aren't like them"


Does Obama mean Typical White People"?


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8270766 - 04/11/08 08:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I dunno, he kinda speaks to my prejudices as well, so I guess I'm in agreement w/ him.

I don't know about the gun part, but people do tend to cling to there own culture, which guns may be a part of.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8271558 - 04/11/08 11:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/260003.php
Quote:

Obama Tries Damage Control; Epic Fail



To be honest that vid isn't as good as Allah's deconstruction of it. Pay attention to Obama's attempt to limit the "gaffe" to calling people "bitter." http://hotair.com/archives/2008/04/11/obama-tries-to-change-the-subject-im-out-of-touch/

Dude, that's the least of it and you know it. You came this close to saying "Religion is the opiate of the masses." You strongly implied that people "cling to their religion" only due to economic desperation, and not out of faith at all.

Allah and I were emailing about this and I said, "Well, you know, they all think that. It's the What's the Matter With Kansas? theory that has such a grip on the liberal mindset. They can't comprehend why people aren't gung-ho for socialism, so they postulate that people are 'distracted' and 'divided' by sinister forces injecting 'phony issues' (like God) into politics to keep them from voting for socialism."

Which is, yes, itself pretty much just a re-wording of "Religion is the opiate of the masses."

Will this hurt Obama? I doubt it, as far as the primaries go. Because, once again: Almost all liberals believe this. Obama was just stupid enough to say it before a primary. So he'll get all the liberal votes he was going to get anyway; quite frankly, his voters won't even understand what the fuss is all about. Why shouldn't Obama say it? It's true, isn't it? Downtrodden, uneducated, backwoods smoked-porcupine-pie type people (that would be you and me) of course cling to simple concepts their tiny brains can grasp -- guns, God, patriotism, the lot of it -- because we're just not capable of understanding the complexities of a functioning socialist economic system on the European model.

The only way this hurts him is if superdelegates now realize he cannot win in November, and begin flipping for Lance Corporal Hillary Clinton. But I doubt that will happen, and anyway, the Democratic party cannot afford to not nominate Barack Obama at this point.

I don't want to say that Obama is now unelectable but he's coming perilously close to that point.




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OfflinePhred
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8271623 - 04/11/08 11:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

From http://ace.mu.nu/archives/259993.php

Quote:

Obama Sends Actor Ronnie Cox To Mend Fences With Small-Town Folks

An emissary of hope. And change. And banjo.




It's patriotic, too, y'all. You heard Yankee Doodle Dandy in there, right?




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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8271681 - 04/11/08 11:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

How bad is this gaffe? Well, even Hillary Clinton hacks are calling it condescending, and liberal spinner Kirsten Powers admits there are some things liberals say to each other when "among friends" that just don't play so well in King of Prussia or Beaverton.

Quote:

“It comes off very badly,” Democratic strategist Kirsten Powers said of the small-town America remarks. “They are things that I think in a liberal world sound totally normal, and outside of that world I don’t know that he appreciates how it sounds. And it just sounds very elitist, and it sounds like he’s looking down on people.”




Which is interesting:

What other sorts of things do you liberals say to each other behind closed doors, Ms. Powers?

Why it's almost as if you have one way of speaking among the progressive elite and another language entirely for the rubes you'd presume to govern.

And which manner of speaking represents your real beliefs and expresses your real agenda? It's a mystery we'll never quite be able to puzzle out, I'm sure.

From http://hotair.com/archives/2008/04/11/obama-on-small-town-voters-bitter-xenophobic-religious/ --

Quote:

What’s most offensive? The condescension displayed here by the intelligentsia’s candidate of choice? The sheer breadth of the stereotype, which would send Team Obama screaming from the rooftops if a white politician drew a similarly sweeping caricature of blacks? The crude quasi-Marxist reductionism of his analysis, which he first introduced in his speech on race vis-a-vis the root causes of whites’ “resentment” — namely, exploitation by the bourgeoisie in the form of corporations and D.C. lobbyists? Or is it the shocking inclusion of religion, of all things, in the litany of sins he recites? What on earth is that doing there, given His Holiness’s repeated invocations of the virtues of faith on the trail? Note the choice of verb, too. Why not just go the whole nine yards and call it the opiate of the masses?

If you missed the Standard’s post a few weeks ago on the various complaints about “distractions” that creep into Obama’s rhetoric, read it now. http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/03/obama_its_all_a_distraction.asp This is of a piece with it. Everything in the Obama universe, including gun rights evidently, that doesn’t fit his agenda is a byproduct of external forces conspiring to manipulate the masses to keep his agenda at bay. Exit question: How does Hillary leverage this? Does she dare get the video and stick it in an ad?






Phred


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8271888 - 04/12/08 12:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's not a gaffe as per its definition of the word as it was sincere, truthful, and he's standing behind the comment 100% - as he should, it's an astute thing to take note of. It's a desperate move for McCain and the the beast Clinton to try and spin it, and it makes the two out to be morons for not understanding and amazingly opposing a truthful statement which showed that actual notice and consideration was being given to these people.

-------------------------

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

TERRE HAUTE, Indiana (CNN) –- Barack Obama was forced Friday to defend comments he made at a recent fundraiser where he described some Pennsylvanians as "bitter."

Obama came under fire from Hillary Clinton and John McCain for his remarks just weeks before the Pennsylvania primary.

"When I go around and I talk to people, there is frustration, and there is anger, and there is bitterness," Obama began. "I want to make a point here."

"[Pennsylvanians are] frustrated and for good reason, because for the last 25 years they’ve seen jobs shipped overseas, they’ve seen their economies collapse. They have lost their jobs, they’ve lost their pensions. They’ve lost their health care."

Obama then said that politicians from both sides of the aisle have promised answers but that "nothing ever happens."

"So…they don’t vote on economic because they don’t expect anybody’s going to help them," Obama said, adding that they end up voting on issues that include gun rights, gay marriage, and faith.

He then directly hit Clinton and McCain, mocking their earlier attacks.

"Here’s what’s rich," Obama said. "Sen. Clinton says, 'Well I don’t think people are bitter in Pennsylvania. I think Barack’s being condescending.' John McCain says, 'Oh, how could he say that? How could he say people are bitter? He’s obviously out of touch with people. '"

"Out of touch?" Obama said. "I mean, John McCain, it took him three tries to finally figure out that the home foreclosure crisis was a problem and to come up with a plan for it, and he’s saying I’m out of touch?"

"Sen. Clinton voted for a credit card sponsored bankruptcy bill that made it harder for people to get out of debt after taking money from the financial services companies, and she says I’m out of touch?"

He concluded his argument by telling the audience that it is, in fact, the opposite.

"No. I’m in touch. I know exactly what’s going on. I know what’s going on in Pennsylvania, I know what’s going on in Indiana, [and] I know what’s going on in Illinois. People are fed up."


--------------


I think that response of Obama's is going far too easy on them. The reaction they gave his earlier remark is the result of unintelligence.



Edited by Disco Cat (04/12/08 12:54 AM)


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8271899 - 04/12/08 12:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Obama is an ass.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8271931 - 04/12/08 12:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Having lived in the midwest for 22 of my 23 years, I can attest that what he says is completely true.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8271942 - 04/12/08 12:58 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

gaffe: an unintentional act or remark causing embarrassment to its originator; a blunder

It was the gaffe to end all gaffes. Obama just insulted the hell out of a gigantic chunk of voters. He's fucking toast.

What's even worse was his lame-ass attempt at damage control, where it is so painfully obvious he's dancing all around the offensive comment, trying to pretend the whole issue is about his claim that people are bitter, and oh.... look over there! McCain once said something bad!

He's fucking doomed. This is the kind of gift that just keeps on giving.

Watching these two Dem morons beclown themselves would be ever so much more satisfying if McCain weren't the Republican candidate.





Phred


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8271952 - 04/12/08 01:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

this entire thread smacks of desperation.


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8271976 - 04/12/08 01:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
gaffe: an unintentional act or remark causing embarrassment to its originator; a blunder



Indeed. The remark was intentional, and he is not embarrassed by it, as he is standing behind it. Therefore it is not a gaffe, as per the definition of the word.




Quote:


It was the gaffe to end all gaffes. Obama just insulted the hell out of a gigantic chunk of voters. He's fucking toast.

What's even worse was his lame-ass attempt at damage control, where it is so painfully obvious he's dancing all around the offensive comment, trying to pretend the whole issue is about his claim that people are bitter, and oh.... look over there! McCain once said something bad!

He's fucking doomed. This is the kind of gift that just keeps on giving.





:lol:



Quote:

afoaf said:
this entire thread smacks of desperation.




And I can say that as a non-Obama supporter.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8271996 - 04/12/08 01:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The remark was intentional, and he is not embarrassed by it, as he is standing behind it.




You are saying he deliberately set out to insult a vast chunk of the American electorate?

Even worse, then.




Phred


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8272000 - 04/12/08 01:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you think it is an insult then you don't understand the comment. It is an objective observation. Any feigned insult is being interjected by the reader, who would certainly not be voting for Obama in the first place.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8272001 - 04/12/08 01:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

the truth hurts?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Disco Cat]
    #8272027 - 04/12/08 01:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

If you think it is an insult then you don't understand the comment. It is an objective observation.




Oh, right. Because you know, if only there were more jobs in small towns they'd turn in their guns, become atheists, welcome illegal immigrants with open arms, ignore the international trade debates and stop being a bunch of racists.

Quote:

Any feigned insult is being interjected by the reader, who would certainly not be voting for Obama in the first place.




Well, there are certainly going to be a whole hell of a lot of Americans in small towns who won't be voting for him now, that's for sure.





Phred


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: afoaf]
    #8272030 - 04/12/08 01:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sounds like an insult to me. Whether you, or him, regard it as the truth is irrelevant. He insulted millions of people.

I dont think it will matter in the end, he will still get elected.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: DieCommie]
    #8272042 - 04/12/08 01:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's not an insult if it is true. It has nothing to do with who perceives what; it matter what actually is.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8272074 - 04/12/08 01:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Things that are true can be insults of course (Im not advocating what he said is true though).

You call a retarded person retarded, thats in insult. You call an ugly person ugly, thats an insult. The way he phrased it was most definitely an insult. He insulted anyone who believes in gun ownership, god, bigotry, closed borders or protectionist trade policies. And he further pushed the insult by blanketing people with those claims, insinuating that one of thoes attributes implies the others. Finally he patronizes them by saying he understands why they are so bitter and ignorant.

Sounds like its full of (left-wing) perception and insult to me.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: DieCommie]
    #8272080 - 04/12/08 01:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sounds like bullshit PC blather to me.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' ... [Re: Phred]
    #8272300 - 04/12/08 03:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Much ado about nothing.

Are you aware of how partisan you are and how it warps your perceptions?

This is manufactured news in a campaign cycle which will be forgotten in a week.

Stupid stuff.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8272564 - 04/12/08 04:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

hes' right..but prolly the wrong thing to say to someone you want to vote for you...

if this isnt the final nail in the dems coffin..then there isnt that many left...if i were in howard deans' shoes..i would resign myself to brokering a sacrificial lamb for POTUS at the convention and concentrate on keeping congress instead...


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' ... [Re: Phred]
    #8272963 - 04/12/08 07:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Obama Said:

"they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

"working class voters then sometimes end up voting on issues like guns and gay marriage.”


Keep talking obama, please keep talking!:grin:


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We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8273185 - 04/12/08 10:35 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 06:46 PM)


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8273212 - 04/12/08 10:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Too post this with "outrage" appears very desperate.




And there, in a nutshell, is Obama's problem. The base he panders to quite honestly cannot even see what is wrong with what he said. They don't grasp how the people Obama is slurring could possibly be offended by his condescension. Because to them, of course the people Obama references are corncob-smokin', banjo-strokin', chicken-chokin', cousin-pokin' inbred hillbilly racist morons whose mystifying enthusiasms are symptoms of psychic damage.

And because Obama has spent his entire adult life surrounded by people who hold this viewpoint, he is totally lost at sea when required to deal with anyone else. Like the average American, for example.

No way this asshat is winning the general election. Hell, at this rate he might not even get the nomination.






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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8273226 - 04/12/08 11:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Obama references are corncob-smokin', banjo-strokin', chicken-chokin', cousin-pokin' inbred hillbilly racist morons whose mystifying enthusiasms are symptoms of psychic damage.




Except he said none of these things. What he said may alienate voters in Pennsylvania, but he certainly didn't lie. The outrage coming from you over this cracks me up.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8273254 - 04/12/08 11:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

LOL!

I'm not outraged. I'm amused. Greatly amused.

The spectacle of this hollow suit stepping on his dick is to be savored. It's freaking comedy gold. I'm grinning all over my face.

This is why rookies shouldn't be allowed to run for president.




Phred


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8273331 - 04/12/08 12:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Having lived in the midwest for 22 of my 23 years, I can attest that what he says is completely true.




I am a principled Libertarian and not an Obama supporter, however, based on my experiences having lived in rural Wisconsin my entire life, I too find him to be absolutely correct in his observation.

Phred, do you not agree with the accuracy of his observation, or did you just cream yourself over the fact that he actually said it?


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: SoY]
    #8273353 - 04/12/08 12:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So, essentially, we have a politician speaking about the nature of a group of voters and then others arguing that it isn't the case. Big deal. The voters will decide who was right I guess.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: SoY]
    #8273373 - 04/12/08 12:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You guys honestly think these folks converted from atheist gun control zealots to religious gun owners when the local textile factory closed its doors before you were born? That if that textile factory were still in operation, these folks wouldn't be going to church? They wouldn't own guns? They'd embrace illegal aliens? Nigga, please! These folks were doing all those same things back in the Fifties.

Obama's comment was breathtakingly stupid. Every professional politician in America knew he'd stepped on his dick big time as soon as they heard it. Talk about unforced errors! Clinton must be giddy with glee.

The Prime Directive of political campaigns is don't insult the voters. That is so ingrained in professional politicians it's instinctual.

We all know Liberal politicians have utter contempt for the poor benighted denizens of the "flyover" states. But at least they have the good sense not to express this contempt out loud. Obama doesn't have even that much sense. A politician stupid enough to say what he said is a politician orders of magnitude too stupid to be handed the keys to the most powerful nation on the planet.






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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8273533 - 04/12/08 01:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:blah:


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: afoaf]
    #8273726 - 04/12/08 02:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think obama intended to say that they converted from a diametric lifestyle due to the factors you identify, but rather that they become more ingrained in their lifestyle to the exlcusion of others.

At most the word cling could mean that they adopted these beliefs from a neutral standpoint, but I'm sure he meant that they became more fervant in their beliefs.

Either way, I grant you it is hard to determine that economic hardship caused these beliefs, but so what?

I very much believe those isolated tend to have more extreme views. Just look at the newcomers to this forum, they often have views way out of step with those here, after awhile they begine to mellow (or maybe they just leave and I don't notice them anymore).

Knowing folks in fairly all white, with the exceptions of some mexicans, areas in the midwest, I absolutly believe that they get bitter towards outside ways and people.




Quote:



We all know Liberal politicians have utter contempt for the poor benighted denizens of the "flyover" states. But at least they have the good sense not to express this contempt out loud. Obama doesn't have even that much sense. A politician stupid enough to say what he said is a politician orders of magnitude too stupid to be handed the keys to the most powerful nation on the planet.





When I here this kinda garbage it makes it hard to take the speaker seriously. We don't "all know" that liberals have contempt for the poor citezins in flyover states. Nevertheless, why don't you share your reasoning or evidence for this phenomenon?


Perhaps liberals don't pander to the red states as a whole, by definition most flyovers are red, but I would imagine this is due to their recent lack of support in these areas.

And didn't the rural states, and southern states, used to vote mainly democratic, or at least more so than the country at large? Are you saying this contempt by liberals is a recent trend? If so, why?


Also, what's your point with your original post? That this rhetoric is incorrect, that obama's views as expressed should not be supported by yourself and us, that obama is an unappealing candidate to PA because of it, or what? I really don't get the point, and it seems a little silly to be railing on him so hard because of this.

Would you really adopt such a stance if it was your favored candidate who said these things? If not, why do you adopt these stances towards obama? The whole thing seems a red herring to me, not really worthy of much introspection.


Quote:


And because Obama has spent his entire adult life surrounded by people who hold this viewpoint, he is totally lost at sea when required to deal with anyone else. Like the average American, for example.




I don't know that the average american is as lost as a politician as to insight into other people's culture, but maybe. Either way, I grant you he probably is isolated in his own bubble, but are you saying this is particularly the case with him?

I would think most powerful politicians are victims of "group-thinking" advisors, who don't understand the public's opinion.

Look at Nixon, even in the depth of his scandals his tapes revealed he was at a loss as to why people didn't care for him.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: afoaf]
    #8273762 - 04/12/08 03:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
this entire thread smacks of desperation.




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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #8273857 - 04/12/08 03:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm with Phred.  I'm :rofl2:.

Now assorted ignorant people can proclaim rural America to in fact be a bastion of backward hayseeds that is far inferior to the oh so sophisticated conclaves of urban welfare cities loaded with the servant class but that will do absolutely nothing to change the perception among those "bumpkins" that Obama is an elitist douche.  Who hates whitey (typical type).  We haven't even begun to tear this class warfare moron the new asshole he is so desperately seeking.  Bwahahahahaha.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: johnm214]
    #8274389 - 04/12/08 05:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Also, what's your point with your original post? That this rhetoric is incorrect, that obama's views as expressed should not be supported by yourself and us, that obama is an unappealing candidate to PA because of it, or what? I really don't get the point, and it seems a little silly to be railing on him so hard because of this.




The point is that this not-ready-for-prime-time empty suit, this glorified fortune cookie, just made a gigantic and entirely unnecessary blunder that will certainly cost him the election. His comments were so jaw-droppingly stupid there is almost no way to describe just how stupid they were.

Quote:

Would you really adopt such a stance if it was your favored candidate who said these things?




Certainly. It's so blatant it's completely impossible to overlook.

Quote:

The whole thing seems a red herring to me, not really worthy of much introspection.




Of course it seems that way to you, duh. You're a Liberal. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, Libs don't even realize he did anything wrong. That's yet another facet of this situation that makes it such comedy gold, the gift that keeps on giving -- the fact that this enormous blunder just zings right over the heads of so many Liberal elitists. It's like, "Dude, what? What am I missing, here?"

It's hysterical, I tell you what!





Phred


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8274407 - 04/12/08 05:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

that will certainly cost him the election.



Haha! Oh please. Yes, THIS will be the thing that makes him lose the election. :whatever:
Quote:

Of course it seems that way to you, duh. You're a Liberal.



I can't really take your feigned outrage very seriously because I'd imagine if McCain had said a similar thing you'd be trying to whitewash it... no pun intended. Pure partisan junk.



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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #8274497 - 04/12/08 06:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Whistling past the graveyard. Your Changey Poof just shat himself yet again. If you cannot see that the more he speaks the more he exposes himself as an elitist douche pandering to the not so great horde of narcissists currently known as "liberals" you are more blinkered than I thought. Any rational observer of politics knows this was a bad mistake. Even the jerk himself knows it. A reasonable debate could be had over just how bad, but there is no rational argument that this won't hurt in the general election. Like I said before, we haven't even begun to get our meathooks in this "smarter than thou" fuckwad commie racist. Just more ammo. Keep it coming Barry. We love ya for it.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Virus_with_Shoes]
    #8274507 - 04/12/08 06:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I can't really take your feigned outrage very seriously because I'd imagine if McCain had said a similar thing you'd be trying to whitewash it... no pun intended. Pure partisan junk.




You imagine wrong. First of all, I am far from outraged. I am instead delighted, not to mention greatly amused.

Secondly, if McCain had said this, I'd be pointing out his stunning stupidity for saying it every bit as vigorously as I point out Obama's stupidity. The news here isn't that an elitist politician has contempt for the masses, it's that he was stupid enough to come right out and say it. It would be every bit as big a story if McCain had said it, believe me. I mean, there's stupid and then there's STUPID. This is a whole new category of stupid.

One of the added bennies to having Obama say it, rather than McCain (one of just many... as I said before, this is the gift that just keeps on giving), is the textbook demonstration of the whole Marxist "false consciousness" trope so ingrained in Obama's little Lefty mind. While not everyone commenting on this trainwreck has pointed it out yet, it's just sitting out there in the open for all to see.



Phred


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8274532 - 04/12/08 06:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:



Of course it seems that way to you, duh. You're a Liberal. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, Libs don't even realize he did anything wrong. That's yet another facet of this situation that makes it such comedy gold, the gift that keeps on giving -- the fact that this enormous blunder just zings right over the heads of so many Liberal elitists. It's like, "Dude, what? What am I missing, here?"




I've been called worse, but I wouldn't consider myself to be a liberal. I'm not going to vote democratic as it stands now, w/ hillary and obama both distastefull to me, does that disqualify me? (I'll also not vote green or socialist)


I just think its much ado about nothing. Yes it was a bad thing to say if your trying to win PA, and it does sound condescending, but he's right insofar as the folks I know, who aren't that far from PA, and live very similarly to the areas he's refering to.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: johnm214]
    #8274561 - 04/12/08 06:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:



Of course it seems that way to you, duh. You're a Liberal. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, Libs don't even realize he did anything wrong. That's yet another facet of this situation that makes it such comedy gold, the gift that keeps on giving -- the fact that this enormous blunder just zings right over the heads of so many Liberal elitists. It's like, "Dude, what? What am I missing, here?"




I've been called worse, but I wouldn't consider myself to be a liberal. I'm not going to vote democratic as it stands now, w/ hillary and obama both distastefull to me, does that disqualify me? (I'll also not vote green or socialist)


I just think its much ado about nothing. Yes it was a bad thing to say if your trying to win PA, and it does sound condescending, but he's right insofar as the folks I know, who aren't that far from PA, and live very similarly to the areas he's refering to.




I don't recall writing that. I don't think it's from me.

If it's much ado about nothing then why he is he out there spinning like a top doing damage control? At any rate, Pennsylvania doesn't matter at all. The primary doesn't matter at all. All that matters is how he will be revealed as a condescending douche in the general. This is just mo' better evidence and the pile keeps growing.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8274591 - 04/12/08 06:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Lol. An explanation is not spinning. I think Obama understands Pennsylvania fairly well, and quite honestly, this isn't going to hurt him. If Wright did not hurt him, I seriously doubt this will do a damn thing to him.

Also, to the posters suggesting that this is a "nail in the dem's coffin" or "howard dean is not effective" I laugh heavily at you.

Howard Dean's 50 state strategy is in full effect this elction cycle.
Democrats are poised to gain between 3 (The RNC's stated best case scenario) and 11 (The DNC's stated best case scenario) senate seats, 10-50 house seats, and Obama is polling ahead of McCain whenever he is not even the 100% nominee yet. Just wait until the GE when Obama turns the advertising dollars from small contributors against McCain.

and this is supposed to be the democrats failing?


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8274623 - 04/12/08 06:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
You guys honestly think these folks converted from atheist gun control zealots to religious gun owners when the local textile factory closed its doors before you were born? That if that textile factory were still in operation, these folks wouldn't be going to church? They wouldn't own guns? They'd embrace illegal aliens? Nigga, please! These folks were doing all those same things back in the Fifties.






Has your reading comprehension degraded by such an extreme degree that you actually believe this was written anywhere in the piece?


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: supernovasky]
    #8274634 - 04/12/08 06:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you don't think Wright hurt him you really have absolutely zero grasp of politics. Sorry. You guys keep focusing on how this plays to registered Democrats. I don't give a rat's ass how it plays to the Dem faithful, they're already lost. It's everybody else in Flyover Country that will slobberknock his racist elitist ass in the general election. This will all come back to haunt him.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: supernovasky]
    #8274657 - 04/12/08 06:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

McCain leads both buttholes in Rasmussen Daily tracking polls and they have yet to fully reflect the effects of this faux pas;
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
Quote:

Saturday, April 12, 2008
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The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday shows John McCain with a very slight advantage over Barack Obama, 47% to 43%. In a match-up with Hillary Clinton, the results are the same--McCain 47% Clinton 43% (see recent daily results).




The more the asshole is forced to open his mouth the more people will find out what an empty suit he is.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8274659 - 04/12/08 07:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Zappa, if Wright hurt him, why did his poll numbers vs. McCain go up AFTER the Wright controversy, and his poll numbers against Hillary reached its highest point?

And Obama isnt even RUNNING against McCain yet with even fractions of his campaign warchest.
I quite honestly think that you and lonestar and Phred will be shocked at this man's ability to hold an effective campaign to bring the things that the majority of Americans desire, such as a gradual withdrawal from Iraq, cheaper health care and a health care policy that makes sense, and an administration that accepts and promotes scientific research and technology.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8274662 - 04/12/08 07:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This is seriously retarded. I don't give a shit if Obama wins or loses, I'm pretty indifferent to the elections of the dumbest Place on Earth, but this is absolutely ridiculous. If anyone feels insulted it's due to their lack of understanding and it's just another sign of how horrible the education down there is, that this is being fussed about.




Quote:

Phred said:
LOL!

I'm not outraged. I'm amused. Greatly amused.

The spectacle of this hollow suit stepping on his dick is to be savored. It's freaking comedy gold. I'm grinning all over my face.




I'm truly sorry to say it, but that's extremely sad, about as pathetic and desperate as the thead's subject matter itself. There's a real world out there you know.


Quote:

Of course it seems that way to you, duh. You're a Liberal. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, Libs don't even realize he did anything wrong. That's yet another facet of this situation that makes it such comedy gold, the gift that keeps on giving -- the fact that this enormous blunder just zings right over the heads of so many Liberal elitists. It's like, "Dude, what? What am I missing, here?"



Do people in that idiotic country down there actually think of people as being separated into Liberals and Conservatives? Sounds like an over-politicized POS place to live. This issue is one of "common" sense, but if you actually associate your identity with a political persuasion then its obvious that common sense would be long foregone.


Edited by Disco Cat (04/12/08 07:16 PM)


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8274672 - 04/12/08 07:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I don't recall writing that. I don't think it's from me.




sorry zappa, that was a quote from phred.

I don't know how your name got in the reply to field


(must have been the liberal media)
Quote:



If you don't think Wright hurt him you really have absolutely zero grasp of politics. Sorry. You guys keep focusing on how this plays to registered Democrats.





I do think wright hurt him, but that was at least related to someone he considers close to him who is fucking crazy, and crazy in RE: to shit that bears upon the country.l

Whether or not obama thinks people cling to religion or guns or xenophobia in response to depression doesn't really seem relevant. It isn't a smart thing to say, but its probably somewhat true, and probably nothing to do with how he would govern, besides perhaps a slight against guns, religion, and racism, depending on how you interpret the comment.


Edited by johnm214 (04/12/08 07:25 PM)


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: supernovasky]
    #8274680 - 04/12/08 07:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
Zappa, if Wright hurt him, why did his poll numbers vs. McCain go up AFTER the Wright controversy, and his poll numbers against Hillary reached its highest point?




Bullshit. He was leading McCain before and Hillary by more than he is now.
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/general_election_match_up_history
And we haven't even begun to lash this particular mule.
Quote:





And Obama isnt even RUNNING against McCain yet with even fractions of his campaign warchest.




And no Republicans are running against Barry yet either, if he should be the nominee.
Quote:



I quite honestly think that you and lonestar and Phred will be shocked at this man's ability to hold an effective campaign to bring the things that the majority of Americans desire, such as a gradual withdrawal from Iraq, cheaper health care and a health care policy that makes sense, and an administration that accepts and promotes scientific research and technology.




We'll see, won't we?


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8274709 - 04/12/08 07:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

None of this bullshit matters. He lost Pennsylvania when he bowled a 37. :lol:


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8275537 - 04/12/08 11:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:






Phred


:rofl2:

Just some "Typical BITTER White people." Phred :grin:



Obama has just lost Pennsylvania,  I wonder how the Guns and god comments will play in North Carolina?:grin:?:grin:


could Obama lose North Carolina over this?


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8275556 - 04/12/08 11:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'd imagine anyone voting democratic doesn't care about guns anyways, or at least not much

Voting for hillary over obama for gun control reasons would be kinda strange, though I don't doubt there's some ignoramus who would do it, the pro gun people I know are a little more educated on the politicians than that... and kinda realize voting for democrats is a vote against any gun besides a hunting rifle


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8276848 - 04/13/08 10:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:

Obama has just lost Pennsylvania,  I wonder how the Guns and god comments will play in North Carolina?:grin:?:grin:


could Obama lose North Carolina over this?




Time will tell.  Some people are upset:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/12/235217/877

Quote:

Dear Senator Obama:

This week at a fundraiser in San Francisco you denigrated people who live in small town America saying that "they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them, or anti-immigrant sentiments or anti-trade sentiments as a way to explain their frustrations."

We are from small town America - we are the people you are talking about, the people you say are leading "bitter" lives. Well, Senator Obama, nothing could be further from the truth. Here in small town America we lead productive lives full of belief in God and country. We live in communities where we go to church because we are hopeful, not because we are bitter. We believe that our passion for fair trade is born out of the principle of fair play, not frustration. We believe that the future of our country is bright and reflected every day in the stars and stripes of our country's flag.

We need a leader who will stand up for small town North Carolina and all Americans. Someone who understands that we are a resilient and hopeful people who are proud of our values and our communities. That, Senator Obama, is what this country needs.

Signed,





Followed by an extensive list of probable Klansmen.

This has yet to fully hit the fan and when it does we shall see.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8276857 - 04/13/08 10:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ace has this to say:

Quote:

Is there another person on the face of the earth Hillary could call an elitist without exploding in a fiery ball of spontaneous irony?




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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8276941 - 04/13/08 11:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Today's Rasmussen daily tracking report:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll



Quote:

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows John McCain leading Barack Obama, 50% to 42%. In a match-up with Hillary Clinton, the results are the same--McCain 49% Clinton 41%. McCain now leads both Democrats among unaffiliated voters. Daily tracking results are updated daily at 9:30 a.m. Eastern Time (see recent daily results). Rasmussen Markets data shows that Democrats are given a 59.6 % chance of winning the White House this year.

In the race for the Democratic Presidential Nomination, Clinton has gained a statistically-insignificant one-point advantage over Obama, 46% to 45%. Obama led by a significant margin for most of the past week, but his advantage had declined slightly even before his controversial remarks from San Francisco made news (see recent daily results).

Rasmussen Reports is surveying voters this weekend for reaction to Obama’s remarks. Preliminary indications from interviews with 400 Likely Voters suggest that the comments are troublesome for Republicans and unaffiliated voters. However, there is less of an impact among Democrats. That tends to confirm the growing consensus that the comments may have more impact on the General Election than the Primaries.(note: I don't know why this is a "growing consensus". I thought it was obvious from the get go)

The preliminary data also suggests that Obama was shrewd to try and focus attention on the portion of the comments about people being bitter. That part of the message is well received. The reference to guns, religion, and immigration that creates potential problems. Rasmussen Markets data still gives Obama an 83.7 % chance of winning the Democratic nomination.

Overall, among all voters nationwide, McCain is viewed favorably by 55% and unfavorably by 42%. Obama’s ratings have fallen to 48% favorable and 50% unfavorable. For Clinton, those numbers are 46% favorable, 51% unfavorable (see recent daily results).

Obama’s favorable ratings peaked at 56% in mid-February and stayed above 50% for another month until the comments of his former Pastor Jeremiah Wright made news. By late March, Obama’s favorable ratings had fallen ten points from their peak to 46%. But, as March became April, his ratings began to recover and moved back above the 50% mark for ten straight days until today. Obama is currently viewed favorably by 45% of unaffiliated voters and 44% of White voters.





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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8277174 - 04/13/08 12:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Lol. Rassmussen always seems to run above the average of the polls as far as dems vs. republicans. Here's gallup:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/106432/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Leads-Clinton-49-42.aspx

Obama +3


And here is something that will hurt McCain:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/north_carolina/election_2008_north_carolina_presidential_election

Obama and McCain are polling each at 47% in NORTH CAROLINA.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: supernovasky]
    #8277292 - 04/13/08 01:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

From the Gallup:

Quote:

The latest results are based on interviews with national Democratic primary voters conducted April 9-11 and represent Obama's sixth straight day of leading Clinton by a significant margin in Gallup Poll Daily tracking reports. Obama's lead is substantially narrower in the two most recent days of interviews, however, suggesting the race could tighten in the coming days.




This doesn't reflect the effect of the last two days.  Also, Gallup polls registered voters and Rasmussen polls likely voters.  In regard to the Rasmussen poll that shows Barry even with McCain after Mac had a big lead, there are two issues. 
1.  Barry has been campaigning there lately.  No surprise.
2.  It doesn't take the latest faux pas into account.  From my link (April 13)
Quote:

Polling data released Saturday from North Carolina shows he is now in a toss-up with McCain (the poll was completed before his San Francisco comments made the news).




We'll see.:cool:


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8277341 - 04/13/08 01:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 06:48 PM)


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8277419 - 04/13/08 02:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
...Cousin'-Pokin' Inbred Hillbilly Racist Morons

From  http://ace.mu.nu/archives/259984.php

Well, it is what he said, more or less.

Actually he said this at a San Fransisco fundraiser (of course), but I can't wait 'till Pennsylvanians hear about this. Obama on the "resentments" of small-town Pennsylvanians:


Quote:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.




Nevermind all that stalking and sodomizing of city-slickers from Atlanta.

This isn't Obama "misspeaking," either. Remember, in that speech on race -- the greatest speech since Abraham Lincoln -- he first seemed to allow that white Americans had legitimate complaints about affirmative action and black crime rates, but then claimed those frustrations were actually misdirected anger about corporations.

This is pure leftist cant -- it's all "false consciousness" stuff, all what our Corporate Masters want us to think, playing us all against each other as they line their pockets with our sweat and tears.

Guns, border security, even religion itself aren't really legitimate points of interest. Instead they're all part of the "culture of fear" indoctrinated into us by the corporate emperors really running this country.

****************************************
Obama's Political Education: Here is exclusive archival footage of Obama being groomed for his candidacy by ace campaign manager David Axelrod:





Much, much more at the link. Click it.... you know you want to.



Phred




So funny to me that when politicos lie and spout pure crap everybody smiles and claps like idiots but if someone tells the truth for a minute everybody freaks out.:monkeydance:


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8277422 - 04/13/08 02:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Blah blah blah Iraq. Are you advocating a draft? Of course you are, you're a fascist. Do you have anything remotely relevant to the actual topic of the thread?

I am quite familiar with small town life. They are neither smarter nor dumber than urban people. They choose to live in small towns for assorted reasons. One ignorant (or not so ignorant) one is that they think urban people are self-absorbed unfriendly douchebags who walk past the unfortunate while exclaiming "Why doesn't somebody DO something?" You know, limousine liberals. What has always amazed me is that people who do nothing but talk and march are deemed "activists". Now that's some world class irony right there.

And people are religious and "cling" to their guns because they are bitter and downtrodden by the "Man"? They've done that for centuries. They want the immigration laws (you know, the ones that already exist) enforced because somehow the Rust Belt factories were closed down 30 years ago because of the Mexican influx? Cue the Deliverance banjo.

Barry has a very revealing habit of whining that people who don't vote for him are too stupid to appreciate his message of collectivist crap. I say, no, Barry, we will not vote for you because we are too smart to buy the same old gummint savior bullshit you're trying to blow up our ass. There is nothing Changey about Barry. He's John Kerry in blackface.

Oh yeah, and Barry hates Whitey, too. "White Greed, Black Need." And the CIA made AIDS to kill black men. Unless the Whitey in question is an unrepentant terrorist. Then he is cool.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8277424 - 04/13/08 02:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You're right, Zappa, we'll see the new Gallup polls, but quite honestly, I dont trust Rasmussen. It isnt because it shows my candidate down, either, I've consistantly been against Rasmussen. They underpoll dems, and their accuracy is about 19th on the pollster score card.

Gallup is a lot more trustworthy.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Icelander]
    #8277437 - 04/13/08 02:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:


So funny to me that when politicos lie and spout pure crap everybody smiles and claps like idiots but if someone tells the truth for a minute everybody freaks out.:monkeydance:




It is, in fact, not truthful.  It is bigoted ignorance.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: supernovasky]
    #8277447 - 04/13/08 02:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think any of them ever undercount Dems. That's why it's the Republicans who usually outperform the polling.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8277528 - 04/13/08 02:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Lol. Zappa, who are you kidding Rasmussen is a GOP pollster. Bush's approval ratings are typically 5 points above the average among other pollsters, their current poll is 8 points above the average of other pollsters as well, and they underpoll democrats. They dont score well on the pollster report card, so I'd remain cautious about touting some sort of McCain bounce from this.

After all, Obama's weathered much worse political storms.

And in my opinion, this isn't even that big of a mistatement.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: supernovasky]
    #8277660 - 04/13/08 03:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

And in my opinion, this isn't even that big of a mistatement.




Of course not. You're a Liberal.



Phred


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: supernovasky]
    #8277678 - 04/13/08 03:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
Lol. Zappa, who are you kidding Rasmussen is a GOP pollster.



No they're not.
Quote:



Bush's approval ratings are typically 5 points above the average among other pollsters, their current poll is 8 points above the average of other pollsters as well,




Bush is not running for president
Quote:

and they underpoll democrats.




Historically, Dems don't vote, otherwise they'd win every election. That must be accounted for.
Quote:

They dont score well on the pollster report card,


Yeah a report card compiled by a polling company that gave itself top marks but doesn't seem to have a Mac/Barry head to head nationally.
Quote:

so I'd remain cautious about touting some sort of McCain bounce from this.




OK
Quote:



After all, Obama's weathered much worse political storms.




Do you mean Wright? Which you asserted had no effect? Not well weathered, if you ask me. And I might argue that this may be worse but I'm not going to invest much in that particularly pointless exercise. The commie fucknozzle keeps getting exposed as elitist swine. And we haven't even started to clobber him.
Quote:



And in my opinion, this isn't even that big of a mistatement.




Yes, I know. Because you and the other elitist socialists think you're smarter and know how to run other people's lives. Why socialists who have repeatedly failed still think they have a better way is beyond me. Must be some kind of learning disability. Maybe you guys are good at music or something.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080411/D8VVUAHG0.html

Quote:

NEW YORK (AP) - There's another side to Alicia Keys: conspiracy theorist. The Grammy-winning singer-songwriter tells Blender magazine: "'Gangsta rap' was a ploy to convince black people to kill each other. 'Gangsta rap' didn't exist."

Keys, 27, said she's read several Black Panther autobiographies and wears a gold AK-47 pendant around her neck "to symbolize strength, power and killing 'em dead," according to an interview in the magazine's May issue, on newsstands Tuesday.

Another of her theories: That the bicoastal feud between slain rappers Tupac Shakur and Notorious B.I.G. was fueled "by the government and the media, to stop another great black leader from existing."




She sounds astonishingly like Barry's preacher man.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8277736 - 04/13/08 03:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Barry has a very revealing habit of whining that people who don't vote for him are too stupid to appreciate his message of collectivist crap.




Link?

Quote:


Oh yeah, and Barry hates Whitey, too. "White Greed, Black Need." And the CIA made AIDS to kill black men. Unless the Whitey in question is an unrepentant terrorist. Then he is cool.




Link?


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8277748 - 04/13/08 03:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

And in my opinion, this isn't even that big of a mistatement.




Of course not. You're a Liberal.



Phred




While it may be notable in terms of effects, it is absurd to believe that what he said itself is a big deal.

And I know you won't be a fool enough to say I'm a liberal.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8277811 - 04/13/08 03:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It most certainly is a big deal precisely because of it's effect.

Which does not have anything to do with the fact that liberals believe he was correct in his bigoted and ignorant assertion that economic hardship has made people bitter and more....Conservative? WTF? I thought economic bitterness would tend to make one more inclined to vote liberal. See Detroit.

Barry and a great many other liberals think flyover country is populated by morons who would be much better off on the gummint titty if only they were smart enough to know they needed it.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8277820 - 04/13/08 03:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So really he didn't say anything wrong, but what's important is that he's suffering for it? Now that's tact if I've ever seen it. :smirk:


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8277872 - 04/13/08 03:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

Barry has a very revealing habit of whining that people who don't vote for him are too stupid to appreciate his message of collectivist crap.




Link?




What do you think his non-apoplogy apology was? Try this:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/04/obamas_sorry_youre_too_stupid.asp
Quote:

Obama's Sorry You're Too Stupid to Understand What He Meant

Via Ambinder:

[O]bviously, if I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that. The underlying truth of what I said remains, which is simply that people who have seen their way of life upended because of economic distress are frustrated and rightfully so.

What a horrible non-apology. The wording was offensive, as was the "underlying truth." Also, this only addresses the bitterness part of the statement, the least offensive part. What about the implication that white folks seeks refuge from economic distress in an irrational embrace of the Second Amendment? Or that unlike Obama, who came by his black liberation theology oh so honestly, the hicks of middle America come to their religion out of fear and xenophobia. I'd think a really different kind of politician would man up and take his lumps.






Quote:


Quote:


Oh yeah, and Barry hates Whitey, too. "White Greed, Black Need." And the CIA made AIDS to kill black men. Unless the Whitey in question is an unrepentant terrorist. Then he is cool.




Link?




Find your own inks to anyone of several thousand reports regarding Rev. Wright, his wife who finally found some pride in America because people voted for her husband, his lie about his white grandmother in defense of the heinous Rev Wright, his "typical white person" quote. I'll give you this one: "White folks greed runs a world in need".
http://www.slate.com/id/2187358/

Quote:

Page 293 (paperback edition): On his radio show yesterday, Hugh Hewitt played excerpts of Barack Obama reading from his autobiography, Dreams of My Father. In one, Obama remembers a sermon by Rev. Jeremiah Wright:

[T]he pastor described going to a museum and being confronted by a painting title Hope.

"The painting depicts a harpist," Revernd Wright explained, "a woman who at first glance appears to be sitting atop a great mountaintop. Untill you take a closer look and see that the woman is bruised and bloodied, dressed in tattered rags, the harp reduced to a single frayed string. Your eye is then drawn down to the scene below, down to the valley below, where everywhere are the ravages of famine, the drumbeat of war, a world groaning under strife and deprivation.

It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white folks' greed runs a world in need, aprtheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere ... That's the world! On which hope sits."

And so it went, a meditation on a fallen world. While the boys next to me doodled on their church bulletin, Reverend Wright spoke of Sharpesville and Hiroshima, the callousness of policy makers in the White House and in the State House. ... [E.A.]

Sounds ... controversial! Keep in mind: a) Obama isn't disapproving of this sermon. In the book he weeps at the end of it; b) Demonstrating that at least some blaming of "white greed" for the world's sins--which Obama now criticizes-- isn't an exceptional topic for Rev. Wright in a few wacky sermons ("the five dumbest things") that Obama may or may not have missed. It's at the quotidian core of the Afrocentric philosophy that Obama says drew him to the church; c) Indeed, in his big March 18th race speech Obama reads the passage from his book that describes his emotional reaction to this very sermon (his "first service at Trinity")--how it made "the story of a people" seem "black and more than black." d) This is also the sermon that gave Obama the title of his next book, The Audacity of Hope. e) The "profound mistake" of this sermon is not that Wright "spoke as if our society was static"--Obama's analysis on Feb. 18th. The problem is that "white folks' greed" is not the main cause of a "world in need."
http://www.slate.com/id/2187358/




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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8277880 - 04/13/08 03:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

While it may be notable in terms of effects, it is absurd to believe that what he said itself is a big deal.




LOL. It is precisely because of its effects that it's a big deal, duh! If it was just another of his fortune cookie platitudes, it would of course not be a big deal. But it wasn't -- it was a revealing snapshot of the man's ingrained prejudices.

Quote:

And I know you won't be a fool enough to say I'm a liberal.




You're no liberal. But if you honestly believe his comment was no big deal, then I must point out it isn't me who's playing the fool in this exchange.



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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8277888 - 04/13/08 03:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

In his apology he said nothing that should lead anyone to believe he called Pennsylvanians stupid.

Quote:


Oh yeah, and Barry hates Whitey, too. "White Greed, Black Need." And the CIA made AIDS to kill black men. Unless the Whitey in question is an unrepentant terrorist. Then he is cool.





"Barry" said none of the quoted text.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: DieCommie]
    #8277893 - 04/13/08 03:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Leave it to the anti-Obama nutjobs here to twist every word he says beyond all recognition. He said something that everybody knows to be true: that people in the Rust Belt have been let down, they're mired in poverty, stagnation, etc., all of which are complicated issues with no clear answers and thus politicians won't touch it with a 20 foot pole. When nobody tries to address these problems or even give the impression they're listening or trying to find a solution, politics becomes a matter of diversions. Things like gun control or xenophobia are the only political issues that the political establishment will listen to these voters about, and so that's become the core of their political activities even though stuff like that's relatively trivial(what's going to affect a small, decaying Pennsylvania town more: immigration laws or economic policy?). The Republicans have managed to make a great deal of people vote against their economic interests by pandering to these kinds of issues and Obama's saying that the Democrats need to reach out to these people instead of ignoring them. But of course, you guys aren't interested in things like nuance or meaning; you just wanna put together words in whatever order makes Obama look the worst. And people wonder why modern American politics is so superficial and petty: you try to tackle serious issues and you have all sorts of smear attacks taking advantage of the fact that your argument can't be accurately condensed into a ten second soundbyte. Disgusting.

I also like how you guys think that he's a secret Muslim, a hardcore black Christian, and an elitist "religion is too good for me" liberal. Make up your minds.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8277956 - 04/13/08 04:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
In his apology he said nothing that should lead anyone to believe he called Pennsylvanians stupid.




Oh no? Not all Pennsylvanians. Just the Pennsylvanians who believe that laws should be enforced, guns should not be outlawed and church is a good thing. To be clung to, like a blanky. Philadelphia, I'm sure, agreed with him. Other podunk retards in other states don't much care for it either. Because they don't like it when their bitterness is exposed.
Quote:



Quote:


Oh yeah, and Barry hates Whitey, too. "White Greed, Black Need." And the CIA made AIDS to kill black men. Unless the Whitey in question is an unrepentant terrorist. Then he is cool.





"Barry" said none of the quoted text.




This part was from his book. His words.
Quote:

And so it went, a meditation on a fallen world. While the boys next to me doodled on their church bulletin, Reverend Wright spoke of Sharpesville and Hiroshima, the callousness of policy makers in the White House and in the State House. ... [E.A.]




Then there is all the bullshit about "typical white people" (yes, he said it), his wife's finally being proud of America specifically because some Americans will vote for her husband, the whole pile of other shit Wright said that he sat through. The fact that he is at the church specifically because of it's Afro-Centrism.

But that's OK. You need a Farrakhan speech to see this? Hopeless.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8278027 - 04/13/08 04:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Leave it to the anti-Obama nutjobs here to twist every word he says beyond all recognition. He said something that everybody knows to be true: that people in the Rust Belt have been let down, they're mired in poverty, stagnation, etc Democrats need to reach out to these people instead of ignoring them. . 

I also like how you guys think that he's a secret Muslim, a hardcore black Christian, and an elitist "religion is too good for me" liberal. Make up your minds.





"Democrats need to reach out to these people instead of ignoring them."



So Obama claims that these "people" cling to god and guns out of a frustration with their lot in life?????

THATS REACHING OUT TO THEM?:rofl2:


Whatever.....


--------------------
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We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8278118 - 04/13/08 04:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Leave it to the anti-Obama nutjobs here to twist every word he says beyond all recognition.



We're nutjobs because we think a private-schooled Harvard educated socialist is revealing himself to be an elitist?  How.....whacky of us:shocked:
Quote:



He said something that everybody knows to be true: that people in the Rust Belt have been let down, they're mired in poverty, stagnation, etc., all of which are complicated issues with no clear answers and thus politicians won't touch it with a 20 foot pole. When nobody tries to address these problems or even give the impression they're listening or trying to find a solution, politics becomes a matter of diversions. Things like gun control or xenophobia are the only political issues that the political establishment will listen to these voters about, and so that's become the core of their political activities even though stuff like that's relatively trivial(what's going to affect a small, decaying Pennsylvania town more: immigration laws or economic policy?).



Huh?  So you believe that these people are so downtrodden that they have suddenly embraced issues they otherwise wouldn't care about were they to be better off.  Forget that they have been concerned with gun rights forever.  Or that they haven't just found religion (which they cling to).  Or that they just want the existing laws enforced.  Forget that Pennsylvania as a whole has above average income.  So you too think they're a bunch of racist cracker morons (xenophobia, the polite word for racist, apparently)?  What is going to effect a small decaying town more (forget that the decay occurred decades ago)?
Let down?  Only by liars like Barry who try to tell them help is on the way.  I much prefer what McCain said in Detroit.  Their jobs are gone and they're not coming back and they damn well better move on.  Then again, I don't really think these people have been waiting for that message.  They have moved on and their life doesn't suck half as much as the social worker crowd would have you believe.  They are not bitter, they are not stupid and they don't want your fucking help, now piss off.
Quote:





The Republicans have managed to make a great deal of people vote against their economic interests by pandering to these kinds of issues and Obama's saying that the Democrats need to reach out to these people instead of ignoring them.




That isn't what he said at all.  He said they were shunning HIM because of their xenophobia and because they are so beaten down they can only focus on nonsense.  Stupid, in other words, as well as psychicly damaged.  You are exactly the same kind of elitist that I despise.  You don't tell me or anybody else what our interests are, we tell you.  And only us.
Quote:

But of course, you guys aren't interested in things like nuance or meaning; you just wanna put together words in whatever order makes Obama look the worst. And people wonder why modern American politics is so superficial and petty: you try to tackle serious issues and you have all sorts of smear attacks taking advantage of the fact that your argument can't be accurately condensed into a ten second soundbyte. Disgusting.




The hideous smear attack of accurately quoting a person.  How awful of us.  Nuance.  You own the franchise.  I generally don't do 10 second sound bites, now, do I?
Quote:



I also like how you guys think that he's a secret Muslim, a hardcore black Christian, and an elitist "religion is too good for me" liberal. Make up your minds.




Somehow you seem to think that everybody who is not you is one person.  Typical narcissist.  I think that Barry goes to the Black Church out of political calculation, which is biting him in the dick right now, and that he probably does have a real contempt for the god botherers.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8278246 - 04/13/08 05:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Nope, he never said anyone in Penn. is stupid. I'd like to see a quote of him saying so.

Quote:


Oh yeah, and Barry hates Whitey, too. "White Greed, Black Need." And the CIA made AIDS to kill black men. Unless the Whitey in question is an unrepentant terrorist. Then he is cool.




What you posted above did nothing to back up the statement you made earlier.

You complete lack of objectivity is an embarrassment to adult dialogue. You're just as blinded as the nutty conspiracy people here.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8278254 - 04/13/08 05:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

they really don't get it Zap, and many people will honestly be confused when obama loses the election.

Many will blame it on America being a racist country, but thats not it!

Obama has lost many votes with his stereotyping comments.

"Typical white people" Obama lost a few million votes with that comment.

People turn to guns and god because they are bitter. another few million votes lost...


its adding up. :toast:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8278384 - 04/13/08 06:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:

"Democrats need to reach out to these people instead of ignoring them."

So Obama claims that these "people" cling to god and guns out of a frustration with their lot in life?????

THATS REACHING OUT TO THEM?:rofl2:


Whatever.....




That's not at all what he said. He said that such wedge issues are favored because they're the only thing the political establishment is willing to grant them. Republicans have no trouble listening to your average rural voter about guns or banning gay marriage, but as soon as they start agitating for economic reform or serious and effective government action, all you hear is crickets. The problem is that the traditional Democratic establishment has already written off such voters as hicks that are gonna vote Republican no matter what. He's saying that the two groups, the Democratic party and the alienated rural voters, have a lot of common ground and that we need to appeal to them.

Quote:

We're nutjobs because we think a private-schooled Harvard educated socialist is revealing himself to be an elitist? How.....whacky of us:shocked:




The fact that you tar him as a socialist completely discredits you. And yes, of all three candidates, he certainly came from the roughest of upbringings. But I guess anyone who goes to Harvard is a lazy elitist who's never worked a day in his life, unlike say, someone who marries into money. First, he's rabbleroussing with Wright, appealing to the ignorant black church-going vote and now he's an elitist who disdains religion.

Quote:


Huh? So you believe that these people are so downtrodden that they have suddenly embraced issues they otherwise wouldn't care about were they to be better off. Forget that they have been concerned with gun rights forever. Or that they haven't just found religion (which they cling to). Or that they just want the existing laws enforced. Forget that Pennsylvania as a whole has above average income. So you too think they're a bunch of racist cracker morons (xenophobia, the polite word for racist, apparently)? What is going to effect a small decaying town more (forget that the decay occurred decades ago)?




Lemme see if I can parse through all this stupidity. While Pennsylvania may be richer on average than the rest of the US, that's due to the wealthy suburbs and the business centers in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, not the Rust Belt. Scranton and Philadelphia are as different as you can get. Nobody's saying that gun control isn't a legitimate topic of debate. Nor is Obama denigrating religion, which you of all people should know considering how much you slimed him for his pastor's beliefs. Nor is he saying that they suddenly starting caring about these issues. He's saying that these issues take up more prominence than they're due because of a sense of ingrained frustration: when your community is collapsing, your savings account is dwindling by the year, your sons and daughters are being killed in a senseless and cruel war, then yes, voting based upon a minor difference in gun control policies or voting against gay marriage as a primary issue is crazy and the reason that such behavior is so popular is because people have given up hope on solving the big issues so they try to have their voice heard where their opinions can change things. It's called a wedge issue; Republicans have exploited lots of voters by appealing to trivial issues("the Democrats are gonna take your guns away!" as if that'd ever happen) while selling them down the river on the big issues.

Quote:

Then again, I don't really think these people have been waiting for that message. They have moved on and their life doesn't suck half as much as the social worker crowd would have you believe. They are not bitter, they are not stupid and they don't want your fucking help, now piss off.




Yeah, because McCain did so well in Michigan, right? And of course they're happy as rain. Everything's hunky dory.  Have you ever visited towns like Flint Michigan or Scranton, Pennsylvania by chance?

Quote:

That isn't what he said at all. He said they were shunning HIM because of their xenophobia and because they are so beaten down they can only focus on nonsense. Stupid, in other words, as well as psychicly damaged. You are exactly the same kind of elitist that I despise. You don't tell me or anybody else what our interests are, we tell you. And only us.




He said nothing of the sort. And I won't even dignify the rest of this bullshit with a response.

Quote:

The hideous smear attack of accurately quoting a person. How awful of us. Nuance. You own the franchise. I generally don't do 10 second sound bites, now, do I?




You're being disingenuous- you consistently misconstrue his words. You either have the reading comprehension level of a 5th grader or you're willing to twist the truth out of spite.

Edit:

Quote:

Somehow you seem to think that everybody who is not you is one person. Typical narcissist. I think that Barry goes to the Black Church out of political calculation, which is biting him in the dick right now, and that he probably does have a real contempt for the god botherers.




I'm not referring to "everyone who disagrees with me"; I'm referring to the Obama-lynchers on this forum and the concerted smear campaign against him. And what in God's name is a "God botherer"?


Edited by Yossarian22 (04/13/08 06:16 PM)


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8278540 - 04/13/08 06:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
they really don't get it Zap, and many people will honestly be confused when obama loses the election.

Many will blame it on America being a racist country, but thats not it!

Obama has lost many votes with his stereotyping comments.

"Typical white people" Obama lost a few million votes with that comment.

People turn to guns and god because they are bitter. another few million votes lost...


its adding up. :toast:




And then we can all celebrate when Johhny makes the US a utopia, fixing all of our problems? :lol:


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8278683 - 04/13/08 07:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:

"Democrats need to reach out to these people instead of ignoring them."

So Obama claims that these "people" cling to god and guns out of a frustration with their lot in life?????

THATS REACHING OUT TO THEM?:rofl2:


Whatever.....




That's not at all what he said. He said that such wedge issues are favored because they're the only thing the political establishment is willing to grant them. Republicans have no trouble listening to your average rural voter about guns or banning gay marriage, but as soon as they start agitating for economic reform or serious and effective government action, all you hear is crickets. The problem is that the traditional Democratic establishment has already written off such voters as hicks that are gonna vote Republican no matter what. He's saying that the two groups, the Democratic party and the alienated rural voters, have a lot of common ground and that we need to appeal to them.




Calling them stupid and psychicly damaged is not what will appeal to them.
Quote:



Quote:

We're nutjobs because we think a private-schooled Harvard educated socialist is revealing himself to be an elitist? How.....whacky of us:shocked:




The fact that you tar him as a socialist completely discredits you.



He is a socialist and why do you think that is a smear ("tar" denotes smear)
Quote:


And yes, of all three candidates, he certainly came from the roughest of upbringings.


  He did?
Quote:

But I guess anyone who goes to Harvard is a lazy elitist who's never worked a day in his life, unlike say, someone who marries into money.



Who said he was lazy?  He has slaved relentlessly to get where he is.  He has kissed some extreme ass to get where he is.  Tell me again about his 7 years in a POW camp.
Quote:


First, he's rabbleroussing with Wright, appealing to the ignorant black church-going vote and now he's an elitist who disdains religion.




Who said that?  I said he sucked up to Afro-centric politicos for political gain.  Refute it.
Quote:



Quote:


Huh? So you believe that these people are so downtrodden that they have suddenly embraced issues they otherwise wouldn't care about were they to be better off. Forget that they have been concerned with gun rights forever. Or that they haven't just found religion (which they cling to). Or that they just want the existing laws enforced. Forget that Pennsylvania as a whole has above average income. So you too think they're a bunch of racist cracker morons (xenophobia, the polite word for racist, apparently)? What is going to effect a small decaying town more (forget that the decay occurred decades ago)?




Lemme see if I can parse through all this stupidity. While Pennsylvania may be richer on average than the rest of the US, that's due to the wealthy suburbs and the business centers in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, not the Rust Belt.




Urban Philadelphia is a cesspool and Pittsburgh is in the center of the rust belt.  I thought that the rust belt was the center of discontent driving poor stupid people who don't know what's good for them away from Barry.
Quote:

Scranton and Philadelphia are as different as you can get.


  Holy shit, an accurate statement.
Quote:

Nobody's saying that gun control isn't a legitimate topic of debate.


Barry seems to be saying that in that he thinks it's only an issue because they are clinging to it because they are downtrodden,  And stupid.
Quote:

Nor is Obama denigrating religion, which you of all people should know considering how much you slimed him for his pastor's beliefs.



I slimed him for his pastor's beliefs?  No, child, his pastor slimed him with his pastor's beliefs, not I.  I can't slime the lad with anything.  He can only be slimed by his associates.  Who seem to be quite slimy indeed.
Quote:


Nor is he saying that they suddenly starting caring about these issues. He's saying that these issues take up more prominence than they're due because of a sense of ingrained frustration: when your community is collapsing, your savings account is dwindling by the year, your sons and daughters are being killed in a senseless and cruel war, then yes, voting based upon a minor difference in gun control policies or voting against gay marriage as a primary issue is crazy and the reason that such behavior is so popular is because people have given up hope on solving the big issues so they try to have their voice heard where their opinions can change things.




Perhaps the big issue is that they don't want to listen to any jerk offs promises of nonsense and would just as soon do it on their own on their own terms without being told what is and isn't good for them by some Harvard twatwaffle.  But, of course, they're too stupid to know that the Harvard twatwaffle knows best.
Quote:

It's called a wedge issue; Republicans have exploited lots of voters by appealing to trivial issues("the Democrats are gonna take your guns away!" as if that'd ever happen) while selling them down the river on the big issues.



Well, some of the more childish political observers might think that is how Republicans have managed to stave off the liberal horde.  I don't think that's it.  I think people DON'T WANT YOUR FUCKING HELP NOW SLAG OFF.  They don't want your self righteous pandering bullshit and in fact hate you for it.  Self respecting people anyway.  Shameless whores, not so much.
Quote:




Quote:

Then again, I don't really think these people have been waiting for that message. They have moved on and their life doesn't suck half as much as the social worker crowd would have you believe. They are not bitter, they are not stupid and they don't want your fucking help, now piss off.




Yeah, because McCain did so well in Michigan, right? And of course they're happy as rain. Everything's hunky dory.  Have you ever visited towns like Flint Michigan or Scranton, Pennsylvania by chance?




Flint and Scranton have been fucked for decades and they only get more and more fucked buying Dem snake oil.  How long have Democrats ruled Detroit?  And Flint and New Orleans?  Scarnton I don't know.
Quote:



Quote:

That isn't what he said at all. He said they were shunning HIM because of their xenophobia and because they are so beaten down they can only focus on nonsense. Stupid, in other words, as well as psychicly damaged. You are exactly the same kind of elitist that I despise. You don't tell me or anybody else what our interests are, we tell you. And only us.




He said nothing of the sort. And I won't even dignify the rest of this bullshit with a response.

Quote:

The hideous smear attack of accurately quoting a person. How awful of us. Nuance. You own the franchise. I generally don't do 10 second sound bites, now, do I?




You're being disingenuous- you consistently misconstrue his words. You either have the reading comprehension level of a 5th grader or you're willing to twist the truth out of spite.

Edit:

Quote:

Somehow you seem to think that everybody who is not you is one person. Typical narcissist. I think that Barry goes to the Black Church out of political calculation, which is biting him in the dick right now, and that he probably does have a real contempt for the god botherers.




I'm not referring to "everyone who disagrees with me"; I'm referring to the Obama-lynchers on this forum and the concerted smear campaign against him. And what in God's name is a "God botherer"? 




Obama-lynchers?  Do you you have any idea what a fool you look when you equate a political disagreement with a lynching?  The bet here is .....NO.

Fuck it here are the comments again

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.'Whining that he isn't getting the vote because he's a black guyThat's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing. More whinig about his race and the bigots who won't vote for him


Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).You can't make this up.  He's telling these billionaires in San Fran that his populist message is being ignored because the sheriff's a ni...black guy

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. Right, they're bitter because the gumint hasn't sent enough cheese.  And Barry hasn't pandered to the anti-trade sentiment at all(Barry's greeter button "Ask Me About NAFTA") Except they're not bitter and they would rather you pounded your cheese up your ass

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.Yeah Barry, just keep on doing what you're doing


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8278684 - 04/13/08 07:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
they really don't get it Zap, and many people will honestly be confused when obama loses the election.

Many will blame it on America being a racist country, but thats not it!

Obama has lost many votes with his stereotyping comments.

"Typical white people" Obama lost a few million votes with that comment.

People turn to guns and god because they are bitter. another few million votes lost...


its adding up. :toast:




And then we can all celebrate when Johhny makes the US a utopia, fixing all of our problems? :lol:




Nobody is going to fix all of your problems.  Fix your own fucking problems.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8278695 - 04/13/08 07:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

How am I going to fix the credit crisis? How am I going to fix what is going on in Iraq?

I have no problems; my life is perfect.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' ... [Re: Phred]
    #8278700 - 04/13/08 07:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"One intelligent remark can ruin a man's entire career."

It is very entertaining to watch conservatives play the victim card. :lol:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8278710 - 04/13/08 07:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Nope, he never said anyone in Penn. is stupid. I'd like to see a quote of him saying so.

Quote:


Oh yeah, and Barry hates Whitey, too. "White Greed, Black Need." And the CIA made AIDS to kill black men. Unless the Whitey in question is an unrepentant terrorist. Then he is cool.




What you posted above did nothing to back up the statement you made earlier.




Normally I would ask at his point if you are daft. I posted a whole pile of stuff to back up my assertion that Barry hates whitey. And his wife hates whitey and his reverend hates whitey. His latest comments in San Fran show he hates whitey, because they won't vote for him. Buy a fucking clue.
Quote:



You complete lack of objectivity is an embarrassment to adult dialogue. You're just as blinded as the nutty conspiracy people here.




I am completely objective. Now I would prefer Hillary. I have weighed the evidence and followed the candidates diligently and have come to the conclusion that Barry is far and away the worst of all possible candidates left. He is a racist opportunist of the worst stripe, a dyed in the wool socialist with a particular agenda to fuck everyone who looks or acts like me, and a disdainful elitist cunt to boot. I don't believe Hillary is a racist, so she is ahead of the Obamessiah. Based on evidence at hand.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8278721 - 04/13/08 07:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
How am I going to fix the credit crisis? How am I going to fix what is going on in Iraq?

I have no problems; my life is perfect.




The credit "crisis" will fix itself. What is going on in Iraq is the fixing. How do those things actually impact your life and have they driven you to cling to your guns and go to church?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8278728 - 04/13/08 07:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
"One intelligent remark can ruin a man's entire career."

It is very entertaining to watch conservatives play the victim card. :lol:




What the fuck are you talking about?  The career being ruined is Obama's and the victim's he speaks of don't think they are.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8278766 - 04/13/08 08:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Nope, you still haven't shown that Barack or his wife hates whites. You have shown his preacher does, but that's neither here nor there. I might ask who again is the daft one?

Quote:


How do those things actually impact your life and have they driven you to cling to your guns and go to church?




Are you serious? Of course it does. Investments are tanking, which effects anyone who is smart enough to have investments.

The war in Iraq effects me because I have several friends and family there. Not only that, but it's an extravagant waste of taxpayer money. I think your brilliant quote above should be proclaimed to the Iraqi people:

Quote:

Nobody is going to fix all of your problems. Fix your own fucking problems.




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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8278778 - 04/13/08 08:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The career being ruined is Obama's




Thanks for pointing that out to all of us...

Quote:

the victim's he speaks of don't think they are




What "victims" does he speak of? He said rural Pennsylvanians cling to their crappy rural culture because they're bitter about their economic status - and Repubicans won't stop crying about it.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8278797 - 04/13/08 08:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I love how, by the way, Two people with net worths over 50 million dollars are calling the guy with a net worth of 1.4 million dollars whose job was to fight for housing reform in poverty neighborhoods and who grew up in a household without much money "elitist and out of touch."


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8278837 - 04/13/08 08:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Nope, you still haven't shown that Barack or his wife hates whites. You have shown his preacher does, but that's neither here nor there. I might ask who again is the daft one?




There will probably be no Farrakhan moment. Although his latest whine that people in Pennsylvania won't listen to him because he's black was pretty good. If you can't see it by now you never will. Fucking daft and blind.
Quote:



Quote:


How do those things actually impact your life and have they driven you to cling to your guns and go to church?




Are you serious? Of course it does. Investments are tanking, which effects anyone who is smart enough to have investments.


If you are smart enough to have investments then you are smart enough to know that they go up and down. Or were you one of those incredible morons who think they only ever went up? Tanking? Not really. Now tell me how you think the gummint should fix the credit crisis
Quote:



The war in Iraq effects me because I have several friends and family there. Not only that, but it's an extravagant waste of taxpayer money. I think your brilliant quote above should be proclaimed to the Iraqi people:

Quote:

Nobody is going to fix all of your problems. Fix your own fucking problems.










Fair enough. As to the waste of money, I differ. I think it is well spent, but that is NOT for this thread.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: supernovasky]
    #8278866 - 04/13/08 08:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
I love how, by the way, Two people with net worths over 50 million dollars are calling the guy with a net worth of 1.4 million dollars whose job was to fight for housing reform in poverty neighborhoods and who grew up in a household without much money "elitist and out of touch."




You don't have to have money to be elitist. You just have to think you know how people ought to live their lives . Without much money? How did he end up going to that private school on Hawaii? He sure is out of touch. He has really never lived in America at all. Indonesia to Hawaii to Harvard. Hawaii may be a state but it sure doesn't have much at all in common with the rest of the country and Harvard is an island unto itself.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8278888 - 04/13/08 08:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


There will probably be no Farrakhan moment. Although his latest whine that people in Pennsylvania won't listen to him because he's black was pretty good. If you can't see it by now you never will. Fucking daft and blind.




Am I blind or is it you seeing things that aren't really there?

Quote:

If you are smart enough to have investments then you are smart enough to know that they go up and down. Or were you one of those incredible morons who think they only ever went up? Tanking? Not really. Now tell me how you think the gummint should fix the credit crisis




They could start by not bailing out any fool who can't run his business. Make those companies actually have some accountability. If these jackasses are giving out subprime loans, they need to reap the benefits of their stupidity when these loans inevitably default. Also, the government needs to create regulations for a minimum amount of liquidity.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8278914 - 04/13/08 08:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

1) I went to a private school with a few vouchers and the draining of my mother's mortgage. Going to a private school does not make one rich, trust me. His grandparents paid for his school in this case, but he certainly did not live a priveledged life early on.

2) Fuck you for claiming Hawaii is not "America"

3) As far as "you dont have to have money to be an elitist," this is true, but it smacks of snark whenever two 50+ millionaires with mucho-money from lobyists are telling the 1.4m guy (the majority of which came from his two books) who spent his career teaching constitional law and fighting for housing improvements in low-income slums that he is "out of touch and elitist."

4) "You just have to think you know how people ought to live their lives" And that's not what McCain is doing when he says that he wants to increase drug penalties, increase manditory minimums, supports a litmus test on abortion, and supports the amendment against flag burning (isn't that pretty much straight-forward telling someone how to live their life?)

5) Since when is going to Harvard a bad thing? Why does being intelligent make you an elitist? Is it some sort of republican party think to be against intelligence and drive for excellence? I mean hell, this guy managed to work himself into this position. At least he didn't marry some heiress to a fortune a month after divorcing his old wife, for a woman who stole pills from her own charity organization...

And Barack Obama is out of touch?

Heh.
Please.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Redstorm]
    #8279053 - 04/13/08 09:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Having lived in the midwest for 22 of my 23 years, I can attest that what he says is completely true.




Having lived in a small Pennsylvania town for 25 of my 27 years, I can attest that what he says is completely UNtrue.

Do people here consider a candidate's stance on gun control important? Sure. If it's a rural area, they're against it. If it's an urban area -- philly, pittsburg, harrisburg -- chances are they're for it.
Well geez, looks like I'm actually saying that's an issue important to liberals and conservatives both. It's only condescending to call that a result of bitterness when you believe that the other side of the coin only holds their opinion because they're some sort of grumpy, out-of-touch hillbilly idiot. That's what Obama is saying. That's what he believes, deep down, to be true -- that his stance is right and anyone holding a contrary stance only does so because they are not properly enlightened to the Truth of matters, the Truth that he alone can bring.

Religion? Sure. Not Utah-like devotion to any candidate because they spout beliefs that match faiths, but last I checked both sides, again, play this card. See above comment about the enlightened and the ignorant.

Antipathy to people not like them, anti-immigrant, anti-trade?

Oh, and so we're on the same page here. "Antipathy to people not like them" means racist.

Boy, he's sure winning votes now!

The only racist, anti-immigrant sentiments that really predominate across the more rural areas of pennsylvania are the utter disdain for.. well, I can't think of a more clear way to illustrate this than to give a nod to chris rock for a second. There's niggers, and there's black people, and nobody likes a nigger. You throw a regular old black dude into some small town in the back woods of PA, and he'd get on fine with everyone. You throw some thugged-out asstard with a smug sense of superiority into the same place and the people around him are going to fucking hate him.

Fuck, we just had a black guy run for Governor -- on the Republican ticket. Lynn Swan. He lost not because he was black, but because the cities in this state are strongly Democratic. Those white folk Obama is speaking down to? Voted for a black guy. Huh. Must not be all that racist.

Oh, and anti-immigrant only counts as true if you believe that being against unchecked illegal immigration is a good thing.. and that does tend to be the Demo party line, that anyone who thinks we should stop letting anybody who can walk sneak across our southern border at night is anti-immigrant and should be labeled a racist.

Quote:

Lemme see if I can parse through all this stupidity. While Pennsylvania may be richer on average than the rest of the US, that's due to the wealthy suburbs and the business centers in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, not the Rust Belt. Scranton and Philadelphia are as different as you can get. Nobody's saying that gun control isn't a legitimate topic of debate. Nor is Obama denigrating religion, which you of all people should know considering how much you slimed him for his pastor's beliefs. Nor is he saying that they suddenly starting caring about these issues. He's saying that these issues take up more prominence than they're due because of a sense of ingrained frustration: when your community is collapsing, your savings account is dwindling by the year, your sons and daughters are being killed in a senseless and cruel war, then yes, voting based upon a minor difference in gun control policies or voting against gay marriage as a primary issue is crazy and the reason that such behavior is so popular is because people have given up hope on solving the big issues so they try to have their voice heard where their opinions can change things. It's called a wedge issue; Republicans have exploited lots of voters by appealing to trivial issues("the Democrats are gonna take your guns away!" as if that'd ever happen) while selling them down the river on the big issues.




Or perhaps it's that some problems are easy. Gun control is an easy one; you're for it or against it. gay marriage? for it or against it.

Revitalizing a local economy?
How in the FUCK is the government going to do that? Answer, they're not. They can maybe lay a few incentives around, but in the end the Feds can't do shit.

The steel mills aren't coming back. The chinese can make the same metal, and pay the whole damned plant what a single steel mill worker made here in a day. They don't have to worry about unions, health insurance, payed vacation time, safety regulations.
Aluminum is moving to china, but give it 10-20 years. They've not quite figured out how to produce the more technologically advanced aluminum that we can make in the states. Not going to stay that way forever.

Post-industrial (post-globalization) rot. There's a problem, but there's really not a solution. Any claims to the contrary are nothing but pandering -- this is something a lot of people here, and in those blighted postindustrial areas, realize. They don't know what to do. Nobody knows what to do. So -- fuck it! -- they'll complain about their lot, they'll bitch, they'll wish things were better, but often enough they'll realize that there are issues more important than the false promises offered to them by some smooth talking suit who probably thinks they're just a bunch of backwards, gap-toothed retards once he gets behind closed doors.


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: supernovasky]
    #8279060 - 04/13/08 09:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Calling them stupid and psychicly damaged is not what will appeal to them.




I agree. It's a good thing that he didn't call them stupid. And I'm not sure about "psychicly damaged", whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean.

Quote:

He is a socialist and why do you think that is a smear ("tar" denotes smear)




Because it's a charged and vague word that could be applied to anybody to the left of Ron Paul(including the Republican party).

Quote:

He did?




Of course; look at his biography. He was raised by a single woman of modest means and worked his way from the bottom up. Clinton was born into a wealthy suburban family. McCain was born the son of an Admiral and owes the majority of his wealth to his marriage. Now, I don't hold a wealthy upbringing against anyone- my point is that it's ludicrous to call him an elitist because he's educated.

Quote:

Who said he was lazy? He has slaved relentlessly to get where he is. He has kissed some extreme ass to get where he is. Tell me again about his 7 years in a POW camp.




Non sequitor after non sequitor. Who said anything about a POW camp? Is that a necessity for running for office? And to think that Obama owes his success to "kissing ass" is so stupid it doesn't merit a refutation.

Quote:

Who said that? I said he sucked up to Afro-centric politicos for political gain. Refute it.




Actually, the burden is on you to prove it, not me to disprove it. Sure, he built connections within his community like any politician, but to think that he embraced Wright for political gain is mind-numbingly stupid- Wright's certainly been an asset, hasn't he?

Quote:


Urban Philadelphia is a cesspool and Pittsburgh is in the center of the rust belt. I thought that the rust belt was the center of discontent driving poor stupid people who don't know what's good for them away from Barry.




Of course Philidelphia has a lot of poverty, but it also has a lot of wealth. And Pittsburgh has rejuvenated itself- it's not the city it once was.

Quote:


I slimed him for his pastor's beliefs? No, child, his pastor slimed him with his pastor's beliefs, not I. I can't slime the lad with anything. He can only be slimed by his associates. Who seem to be quite slimy indeed.




No; you slimed him by pulling the same deceitful, misreading, let's-ignore-the-context bullshit you're doing in this very thread.

Quote:



Perhaps the big issue is that they don't want to listen to any jerk offs promises of nonsense and would just as soon do it on their own on their own terms without being told what is and isn't good for them by some Harvard twatwaffle. But, of course, they're too stupid to know that the Harvard twatwaffle knows best.

Well, some of the more childish political observers might think that is how Republicans have managed to stave off the liberal horde. I don't think that's it. I think people DON'T WANT YOUR FUCKING HELP NOW SLAG OFF. They don't want your self righteous pandering bullshit and in fact hate you for it. Self respecting people anyway. Shameless whores, not so much.




Yes, clearly the citizens of the rust belt are just clamoring for a libertarian revolution. You certainly seem to know exactly how they feel. Or at least the "self respecting" people; anyone who expects the government to look out for their interests is obviously a shameless whore.

Quote:

Obama-lynchers? Do you you have any idea what a fool you look when you equate a political disagreement with a lynching? The bet here is .....NO.




Your smear against Obama regarding Wright was classical race-baiting. And now you're absolutely, 100% determined to twist Obama's words out of some weird vendetta. Where's your criticism of the other candidates? Obama makes an off the cuff remark that may not have been ideally worded but is pretty clearly not condescending or insulting and you jump all over him for it. He has a pastor who does the same and you're all over him. McCain sucks up to bigoted nutjobs who advocate genocide and the realization of the Apocalypse and you trip over yourself to offer half-assed excuses. McCain publicly calls his wife a "cunt" and loses his temper in public numerous times and nary a peep despite the fact that such an outburst from the President of the United States could have epic reprocussions. He makes an absurd and jingoistic claim about Iran, a claim so patently and obviously false that anyone who know the difference between Baghdad and Baltimore would've laughed at it, and again nary a whisper. But he dares to intelligently discuss the political atmosphere in a region and holy hell, you're bursting your keyboard trying to spout as much vitriol and sophistry as you can.

Quote:

Fuck it here are the comments again




Are you able to read? I don't mean read in the simple sense of equating letters with words; I mean analyze and interpret basic statements? Because I'm starting to worry that you can't. Obama downplays the race issue here, unlike Governor Ed Rendell who claimed that Pennsylvania was too racist to elect a black president(and yet I didn't hear you leaping on him); the worst he says is that his name, race and novelty cause "skepticism". Yes, he's obviously calling them Klansmen. He says that the Democratic party has failed them, that governmental policy and politics has failed them(and to deny this is to forfeit any credibility) and that as a result, they're angry and frustrated and the Republicans have developed a politics based on frustration and anger. He says that Democrats need to offer hope, they need to work to fix the region's problems if they want to capture those votes.

But you're clearly not interested in what he's saying; you just hear whatever it is that'll best confirm your previously-existing biases. If Obama said "Good day" to you, you'd interpret that as a threat that he'll attack you at night. So there's not any real point in arguing; if you can't be swayed to believe in global warming or to actually read Wright's sermons, there's no hope you'll actually read the comments you just posted.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8279396 - 04/13/08 10:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yossarian, your love for Obama has completely demolished your ability to understand what you are reading. If it were any other candidate saying these things, you'd easily recognize the condescension, the crypto-Marxist sentiment, the naked opportunism that drips from every pore of this empty suit.

Much as I hate to say it, the more Obama opens his mouth, the more I am coming to realize Hillary is not the worst of the three candidates left standing. Obama is. Hard as it is to believe, having that man as president of the US would be even worse than having Hillary and Bill back in the White House.

Fortunately, he's a n00b at campaigning at this level, so he was unable to conceal his real self forever. The more he talks (and he has to do a hell of a lot of talking between now and Denver) the more he reveals. And that revelation won't sit well with the majority of American voters, so it looks like the world will dodge another bullet.

Whew.





Phred


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8279630 - 04/13/08 11:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 06:49 PM)


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: supernovasky]
    #8280950 - 04/14/08 07:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

> His grandparents paid for his school in this case, but he certainly did not live a priveledged life early on.

Must be nice. Slice it how you like, but he had a lot easier childhood than most of us. While he was going to private school on his grandparents dime, I was picking up aluminum cans along the side of the road to turn in for lunch money at public school. (literally)

Sorry, but you are not going to win any tears from me for somebody having a hard childhood. I lived a hard childhood and I have known people that had it a lot worse than I did. How many birthday's did Obama miss because his family couldn't afford a birthday cake, never mind birthday presents? My guess would be zero.

> the more Obama opens his mouth, the more I am coming to realize Hillary is not the worst of the three candidates left standing

I would never admit it, but you might be correct. Ick, I feel dirty just thinking about hir...

> "Mexicans" are often a scapegoat for this anger & frustration.

They aren't being used as a scapegoat, rather, tolerance for "freeloaders" is dropping. When the pantry is full, nobody minds sharing. When the pantry is almost empty, people tend to look out for their own first. It isn't that people are blaming the illegal aliens for the economic problems (though they certainly don't help), but that people are a lot less willing to share what little they have left with illegal aliens.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Seuss]
    #8280991 - 04/14/08 07:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think the debate on Wednesday night will be most interesting. :hehehe:


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Seuss]
    #8281055 - 04/14/08 08:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

> the more Obama opens his mouth, the more I am coming to realize Hillary is not the worst of the three candidates left standing

I would never admit it, but you might be correct. Ick, I feel dirty just thinking about hir...





agreed

I used to at least respect obama for being somewhat more upfront about his beliefs, even those I disagreed with. I used to think he was at least somewhat honest, or more so than hillary, about the major positions he touts.

Amongst the issues Hillary supports privately, apparently, like Bill's nafta, deregulation, and free trade, but denounces publically whilst promising the canadians its all for show, I agree with. Dishonest and slimy, but at least I'm with her on what her real position may kinda sorta be.

Obama, on the otherhand, has been a protectionist all along. Guess what obama, you can't fly by pulling on your backside, and you can't generate more money by buying things at an artificially high price. The second law of thermodynamics works for money too.

Obama has been railing against the war, but then voting to fund it, which is either stupidity, spinelessness, or an insult to anyone following the issue (i.e. you're too stupid to understand I'm against the way but have no power to end the war so I'm simply going to not fund it and let the president decide to either starve the troops or withdraw/reduce to levels in line with the budget)....

Been claiming marijuana should be decriminalized, then quickly becoming afraid to stand up for what's right \ what he stood for when he had to step forward in the debates and interviews, cowardly going along w/ the other candidates who voted for continuing jail for marijuana users and possesors. (again, you're too stupid to understand a vote for decriminalization is not a vote for use)

And I hate to admit it, but the whole revrend wright thing really smacks of bullshit too. I doubt Obama supported Wright's statements, I agree w/ zappa here in that I believe his association was a political one that got snagged in the transition from semi-local to national campaigning, but the way he handled it was a little distatsteful and cowardly....


I don't give a shit about the comments re: Pa, and think they're meaningless, but the other things he's been switching around on, evading, and becoming more slimy about really irks me


The cuop de gras was when he decided that in the midst of what may be a continuing rough spot for this country that he would DOUBLE capital gains if he had his way and limit the availibility of mortgages for those whom HE decides can't afford it.


Great, so we're going to slow the investment in this country at a time of rapid growth in the developing nations' markets, along w/ more mainstream funds getting in the game, and tell me I can't get a mortgage cuz the government decided that I don't make enough money for it? I don't have kids, I have no wife, if I want to risk a shitty interest rate, and possible foreclosure, that's my fucking buisness. It's not like I can't grab an apartment. Course hillary's moratorium would be insane, but this insanity isn't enough to overcome Obama's recent b.s.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: johnm214]
    #8281272 - 04/14/08 11:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

what a thread this has been.:grin:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8281343 - 04/14/08 11:31 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Icelander said:


So funny to me that when politicos lie and spout pure crap everybody smiles and claps like idiots but if someone tells the truth for a minute everybody freaks out.:monkeydance:




It is, in fact, not truthful.  It is bigoted ignorance.




I been to the south and around this fair country and have seen and experienced it for myself. It's all true.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8281348 - 04/14/08 11:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
what a mockery this has been.:grin:




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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Icelander]
    #8281380 - 04/14/08 11:40 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think its a little sad how southerners and people with a southern accent get picked on by the rest of the country. Its last form of socially acceptable prejudice and discrimination I guess. Racial slurs like hillbilly, redneck and trailer trash wont even raise an eyebrow in the workplace.

Blacks commit more crimes per capita, but its not fair to judge all black people for it (its probably just the racist southern cops fault anyway). Hispanics fight against their host countries borders, language and way of life, but you certainly cant judge all hispanics from this. But southerns, who are prone to bigotry and religious backwardness, do get judged as a whole based on the actions of some. Simply hearing their accent is all most people use to judge them.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: DieCommie]
    #8281414 - 04/14/08 11:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I think its a little sad how southerners and people with a southern accent get picked on by the rest of the country. Its last form of socially acceptable prejudice and discrimination I guess. Racial slurs like hillbilly, redneck and trailer trash wont even raise an eyebrow in the workplace.

Blacks commit more crimes per capita, but its not fair to judge all black people for it (its probably just the racist southern cops fault anyway). Hispanics fight against their host countries borders, language and way of life, but you certainly cant judge all hispanics from this. But southerns, who are prone to bigotry and religious backwardness, do get judged as a whole based on the actions of some. Simply hearing their accent is all most people use to judge them.





The only time I've spent outside of a small town in Pennsylvania, I spent in the South.

I ran across less racism in the South than you'd find up here in urban areas.

But when you're dead-set on seeing something, well by golly you'll see it.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Icelander]
    #8281561 - 04/14/08 12:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Icelander said:


So funny to me that when politicos lie and spout pure crap everybody smiles and claps like idiots but if someone tells the truth for a minute everybody freaks out.:monkeydance:




It is, in fact, not truthful.  It is bigoted ignorance. 




I been to the south and around this fair country and have seen and experienced it for myself. It's all true.




I have lived in, not been around, small towns(upstate NY), the south(Lexington KY), big(NYC) and medium (Syr and Buffalo and Lex KY) cities and suburbs.  There is no significant difference in overall intelligence.  If you are intelligent, you have a better chance of finding peers in a large city than in a small town because there is a greater pool to choose from.  Stupid definitely floods all of them equally.

Which is completely and utterly irrelevant to the fact that this particular socialist cunt is also a condescending asshole.  There is no taint involved he is asshole and cunt in one.  I had a post some months back where I said he seemed to be a likable guy.  I think he was even ahead then.  Now, I fucking can't stand him.  You know that bitterness thing leading to religion?  It's called projection.  I am not the least bit interested in a bitter man being my President.  Nor a socialist.  He also married a bitter bitch and attended the church of a bitter asshole and if there is going to be a bitter President he damn well isn't going to be a bitter black man who hates well to do white people.  Because THAT, my friends, is diametrically opposed to MY interests.  That goes without mentioning the general disaster a commie is.  His latest San Fran whine is straight out of Marxist "religion is the opiate" screed.  Why do you take opium?  To relieve pain.  That is exactly what he said.

Marxist racist envious turd.  Also, an arch panderer.  Hasn't he himself been railing against free trade?  Why yes, yes he has.  Hasn't he himself embraced religion?  Why yes, yes he has.  What does he say about guns?  Very little but it seems to vary depending on the audience.  Likewise the Iraq situation.  Some days it's everybody out tomorrow, some days it's nothing precipitous.  NAFTA?  Who knows. 

There is nothing Changey about Barry except his skin color.  He is not going to help small towns nor should he.  But neither should he be so condescending to people who choose a different life.

Redstorm, if you cannot put all that stuff together and see that he is racist I'm sorry for you.
1.  Afro centric church with whacko anti-white preacher
2.  "Typical white person"
3.  Wife who just now became proud of her country because    a lot of them will vote black.
4.  This current bullshit about poverty (untrue bullshit anyway) inexorably causing xenophobia.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: DieCommie]
    #8281708 - 04/14/08 12:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
I think its a little sad how southerners and people with a southern accent get picked on by the rest of the country. Its last form of socially acceptable prejudice and discrimination I guess. Racial slurs like hillbilly, redneck and trailer trash wont even raise an eyebrow in the workplace.

Blacks commit more crimes per capita, but its not fair to judge all black people for it (its probably just the racist southern cops fault anyway). Hispanics fight against their host countries borders, language and way of life, but you certainly cant judge all hispanics from this. But southerns, who are prone to bigotry and religious backwardness, do get judged as a whole based on the actions of some. Simply hearing their accent is all most people use to judge them.




I didn't just mention the south. It's just extreme down there. Let's get it straight that we all are bigots to some degree and not worry too much about it. My point still stands that most folk fall back on violence and religion when reason fails. This doesn't just happen in America.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8281729 - 04/14/08 12:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:rofl2: Your rant makes me laugh.

I had a post some months back where I said he seemed to be a likable guy. I think he was even ahead then. Now, I fucking can't stand him.

That just shows how you think like the typical american voter. Every new sound bite throws you into a different direction. How silly.


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8281746 - 04/14/08 01:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian, your love for Obama has completely demolished your ability to understand what you are reading. If it were any other candidate saying these things, you'd easily recognize the condescension, the crypto-Marxist sentiment, the naked opportunism that drips from every pore of this empty suit.




No, your obsessive hatred of Obama has prevented you from actually reading his statements; when he opens his mouth, you see only a way to twist his words to make him look bad. You clearly don't try reading his statements and then in good faith interpret and analyze them. What he said was condescending only in the sense that he's discussing political opinions as being a reaction to various things, including demagoguery, cynicism and economic despair. I don't see anything wrong with such an analysis because I understand that our opinions and attitudes are shaped by the atmosphere we live and grow up in. And what exactly is so heinously "crypto-Marxist" about this statement? Is it the idea that one's economic situation influences one's behavior and attitude? Or the idea that the government should do what it can to protect its citizens' financial interests? If that's what communism means nowadays, I think you'll find that America's as red as a Bolshevik- remember how well McCain's "It's your own damn fault your house is being forclosed" idea went over? Of course, nothing tops the pure ridiculousness of the allegation that this is "opportunism". The mind boggles at how a frank, insightful and easily spinned statement is "opportunism"; it's the exact opposite. Opportunism would be uttering platitudes, saying bullshit like "Pennsylvanians aren't bitter; they're hopeful.". Platitudes are opportunism; hard and controversial truths are the exact opposite.

But since you're hellbent on demonizing him and jumping on anything he says that could possibly be damaging, no matter how facetious the interpretation, let's go over what he said.

Quote:

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.




Translation: There's been a lot of speculation as to whether racism is going to play a role in the Pennsylvania primaries. Governor Ed Rendell claimed that Pennsylvania's not ready to vote for a black president. The New York Times ran an article questioning how much my race is going to be a liability. I don't think that explains the challenge I'm facing in Pennsylvania; convincing cynical voters who've been let down time and time again and have had promises to them ignored to vote for a campaign whose message is change is hope is the real challenge.

Quote:



Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).




Same thing, except he makes an aside that being young, having a foreign name, and being black compounds the challenge. Even if you take this as an accusation that Pennsylvanians are racist, he's still downplaying it. And quite frankly, if you don't think that being black is an electoral hurdle in many parts of the US, you're pretty damn naive. But again: he's not whining about how being black is hurting him; he's saying that's just a small part of the challenge.

Quote:


But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.




He's saying: I can present talking points about what I'm going to do, but the truth is they've heard it all before. If I want to get their trust, I'm going to have to earn it; I'm going to have to produce results and not just promise half-hearted and vague optimism. Their concerns and their pleas for help have gone unnoticed, and so they cling to areas where they can still excercise influence- social issues like gun control, anti-immigrant sentiment, etc. which the Republican party, who doesn't give a shit about these voters when it comes to demanding real change, are all too happy to encourage this kind of politics for more leverage.

Quote:



Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.




I don't see how this could be any clearer: racial or demographic stereotypes about who's supporting who and why are overly simplistic and not something we should be obsessed with.

If you don't believe me that's what Obama meant, then check out his clarification.

In fact, it sounds a lot like these statements:

"The reason (George H. W. Bush's tactic) works so well now is that you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death,"- Hillary Clinton, 1991

"You know, he [Bush] wants to divide us over race. I'm from the South. I understand this. This quota deal they're gonna pull in the next election is the same old scam they've been pulling on us for decade after decade after decade. When their economic policies fail, when the country's coming apart rather than coming together, what do they do? They find the most economically insecure white men and scare the living daylights out of them. They know if they can keep us looking at each other across a racial divide, if I can look at Bobby Rush and think, Bobby wants my job, my promotion, then neither of us can look at George Bush and say, 'What happened to everybody's job? What happened to everybody's income? What ... have ... you ... done ... to ... our ... country?'"(Also Clinton)

Moreover, this is a relatively well-known phenomenon in political science and sociology circles. The most famous book on the subject is What's the Matter With Kansas. Instead of writing them off as stupid hicks like the Democratic establishment and the DLC wing of the party especially, Obama's clearly trying to understand where they're coming from and create common ground: We may disagree on gun control, or gay rights, but we have much more important issues in common.

Quote:



Must be nice. Slice it how you like, but he had a lot easier childhood than most of us. While he was going to private school on his grandparents dime, I was picking up aluminum cans along the side of the road to turn in for lunch money at public school. (literally)

Sorry, but you are not going to win any tears from me for somebody having a hard childhood. I lived a hard childhood and I have known people that had it a lot worse than I did. How many birthday's did Obama miss because his family couldn't afford a birthday cake, never mind birthday presents? My guess would be zero.




So what? You had a tougher childhood than Obama. Congratulations. Clearly, anyone whose family could afford a birthday present is out of touch with America. As is anyone who's lived overseas, in Hawaii, or in black communities, or in San Fransisco.

Quote:


They aren't being used as a scapegoat, rather, tolerance for "freeloaders" is dropping. When the pantry is full, nobody minds sharing. When the pantry is almost empty, people tend to look out for their own first. It isn't that people are blaming the illegal aliens for the economic problems (though they certainly don't help), but that people are a lot less willing to share what little they have left with illegal aliens.




If you think that undocumented immigrants are "freeloaders" then not only are you xenophobic, you're also not doing too well in the thinking department there. Did you know that Mexicans cross the border to live off our generous welfare programs and make gobs of cash from our easy jobs?

Quote:


Which is completely and utterly irrelevant to the fact that this particular socialist cunt is also a condescending asshole. There is no taint involved he is asshole and cunt in one. I had a post some months back where I said he seemed to be a likable guy. I think he was even ahead then. Now, I fucking can't stand him. You know that bitterness thing leading to religion? It's called projection. I am not the least bit interested in a bitter man being my President. Nor a socialist. He also married a bitter bitch and attended the church of a bitter asshole and if there is going to be a bitter President he damn well isn't going to be a bitter black man who hates well to do white people. Because THAT, my friends, is diametrically opposed to MY interests. That goes without mentioning the general disaster a commie is. His latest San Fran whine is straight out of Marxist "religion is the opiate" screed. Why do you take opium? To relieve pain. That is exactly what he said.

Marxist racist envious turd. Also, an arch panderer. Hasn't he himself been railing against free trade? Why yes, yes he has. Hasn't he himself embraced religion? Why yes, yes he has. What does he say about guns? Very little but it seems to vary depending on the audience. Likewise the Iraq situation. Some days it's everybody out tomorrow, some days it's nothing precipitous. NAFTA? Who knows.

There is nothing Changey about Barry except his skin color. He is not going to help small towns nor should he. But neither should he be so condescending to people who choose a different life.




I think you got some spittle on your monitor there.

The fact that he so enrages you, you who thinks that Hoover's response to the Great Depression is apparently a model to follow, who can't be convinced of scientific fact, and who thinks anything to the left of Ron Paul is a diehar communist, really reassures me. If he pisses you off so much, he must be doing something right.


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8281860 - 04/14/08 01:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You know, Robert Reich summed it up better than I could:

Quote:

Obama, Bitterness, Meet the Press, and the Old Politics

I was born in Scranton, Pennsylvania, 61 years ago. My father sold $1.98 cotton blouses to blue-collar women and women whose husbands worked in factories. Years later, I was secretary of labor of the United States, and I tried the best I could – which wasn’t nearly good enough – to help reverse one of the most troublesome trends America has faced: The stagnation of middle-class wages and the expansion of povety. Male hourly wages began to drop in the early 1970s, adjusted for inflation. The average man in his 30s is earning less than his father did thirty years ago. Yet America is far richer. Where did the money go? To the top.

Are Americans who have been left behind frustrated? Of course. And their frustrations, their anger and, yes, sometimes their bitterness, have been used since then -- by demagogues, by nationalists and xenophobes, by radical conservatives, by political nuts and fanatical fruitcakes – to blame immigrants and foreign traders, to blame blacks and the poor, to blame "liberal elites," to blame anyone and anything.

Rather than counter all this, the American media have wallowed in it. Some, like Fox News and talk radio, have given the haters and blamers their very own megaphones. The rest have merely "reported on" it. Instead of focusing on how to get Americans good jobs again; instead of admitting too many of our schools are failing and our kids are falling behind their contemporaries in Europe, Japan, and even China; instead of showing why we need a more progressive tax system to finance better schools and access to health care, and green technologies that might create new manufacturing jobs, our national discussion has been mired in the old politics.

Listen to this morning’s “Meet the Press” if you want an example. Tim Russert, one of the smartest guys on television, interviewed four political consultants – Carville and Matalin, Bob Schrum, and Michael Murphy. Political consultants are paid huge sums to help politicians spin words and avoid real talk. They’re part of the problem. And what do Russert and these four consultants talk about? The potential damage to Barack Obama from saying that lots of people in Pennsylvania are bitter that the economy has left them behind; about HRC’s spin on Obama’s words (he’s an “elitist,” she said); and John McCain’s similarly puerile attack.

Does Russert really believe he’s doing the nation a service for this parade of spin doctors talking about potential spins and the spin-offs from the words Obama used to state what everyone knows is true? Or is Russert merely in the business of selling TV airtime for a network that doesn’t give a hoot about its supposed commitment to the public interest but wants to up its ratings by pandering to the nation’s ongoing desire for gladiator entertainment instead of real talk about real problems.

We’re heading into the worst economic crisis in a half century or more. Many of the Americans who have been getting nowhere for decades are in even deeper trouble. Large numbers of people in Pennsylvania and across the nation are losing their homes and losing their jobs, and the situation is likely to grow worse. Consumers are at the end of their ropes, fuel and food costs are skyrocketing, they can’t go deeper into debt, they can’t pay their bills. They aren’t buying, which means every business from the auto industry to housing to even giant GE is hurting. Which means they’ll begin laying off more people, and as they do, we will experience an even more dangerous downward spiral.

Bitter? You ain’t seen nothing yet. And as much as people like Russert, Carville, Matalin, Schrum, and Murphy want to divert our attention from what’s really happening; as much as HRC and McCain seek to make political hay out of choices of words that can be spun cynically by the mindless spinners of the old politics; as much as demagogues on the right and left continue to try to channel the cumulative frustrations of Americans into a politics of resentment – all these attempts will, I hope, prove futile. Eighty percent of Americans know the nation is on the wrong track. The old politics, and the old media that feeds it, are irrelevant now.




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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8281937 - 04/14/08 01:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"No, I'm in touch. I know exactly what's going on!

I know what's going on in Pennsylvania, I know what's going on in Indiana, I know what's going on in Illinois," Mr. Obama said, his voice rising. "People are fed up, they're angry, they're frustrated, they're bitter and they want to see a change in Washington. That's why I'm running for president of the United States of America."


I admit I've never been to

Pennsylvania


Indiana


Illinois......



must be a lot of BITTER folks in those states.:smirk:


--------------------
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Seuss]
    #8281962 - 04/14/08 01:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:




> the more Obama opens his mouth, the more I am coming to realize Hillary is not the worst of the three candidates left standing

I would never admit it, but you might be correct. Ick, I feel dirty just thinking about hir...








Yup, i would prefer Stalin to Hitler


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8282042 - 04/14/08 02:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

No, your obsessive hatred of Obama...




LOL! I don't hate the man... far from it! I find him to be a fundamentally unserious, manipulating, calculating, pompous, posturing buffoon who in many ways reminds me of John F Kerry -- not least in the way that he (like Kerry) believes himself far more intelligent than he really is. None of those characteristics make him an object of hate, but rather an object of ridicule.

I don't need to hate this schmuck in order to recognize he'd make a catastrophic president and commander in chief, though.

Quote:

...has prevented you from actually reading his statements;




See, here is where we have the standard Libbie practice of inverting reality. I read what the guy actually says. I listen to what he says. I think about what he says. You just let his sonorous platitudes wash over you without absorbing their meaning.

Quote:

...when he opens his mouth, you see only a way to twist his words to make him look bad.




There is no need to twist his words to make him look bad. As a matter of fact, it's pretty near impossible to make them look any worse.

Quote:

You clearly don't try reading his statements and then in good faith interpret and analyze them.




See above re Libbie inversion of reality. Psychologists call this trait of assigning to your opponents what you yourself do "projection".

Quote:

What he said was condescending only in the sense that he's discussing political opinions as being a reaction to various things...




Believing in God is a political opinion? Enjoying hunting is a political opinion?

It is true that Barry nominally "became" a Christian as a strictly political ploy, however. Maybe that's why he misunderstands the roots of faith of the vast majority of religious folks.

By the way, just so there are no misunderstandings here, I myself am a stone atheist, and have been for well over four decades now.

Quote:

...including demagoguery, cynicism and economic despair.




Economic despair? So if the mill had never closed down, these folks would still be color blind atheists who support gun control and open borders policy? Pull my other leg, junior.

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I don't see anything wrong with such an analysis because I understand that our opinions and attitudes are shaped by the atmosphere we live and grow up in.




Of course you don't see anything wrong with it. You are a Liberal.

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And what exactly is so heinously "crypto-Marxist" about this statement?




Apart from that religion-as-opiate-of-the-masses thing? How about the casual assumption that these people expect government to provide everything for them? Or the whole "false consciousness" trope of Marxist thought, that one's attitudes are determined by one's economic "class". And of course, the "what's wrong with Kansas" idiocy he's pushing.

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remember how well McCain's "It's your own damn fault your house is being forclosed" idea went over?




No one is saying McCain hasn't made some stupid remarks during the campaign. As I have said before, the real fly in the ointment of this wonderful spectacle of two Dems beclowning themselves in public is that McCain is the Republican candidate.

This doesn't change the fact that nothing McCain (or Hillary, for that matter) has said up to now comes anywhere close to this debacle.

I won't bother Fisking your spin on his lame and frantic attempts to backpedal. Enough other commentators have done so that I can save myself a ton of keystrokes.

I do, however, find it revealing that you seem to think "What's the Matter with Kansas" somehow qualifies as a serious work. It's no wonder then that you believe Obama has uttered something profound rather than stepping on his dick repeatedly in public -- he was basically (as was noted way back in maybe the second or third post in this thread) regurgitating the thesis of that shoddy screed. That book was such a worthless piece of trash no rational person can take it seriously.




Phred


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8282234 - 04/14/08 03:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:



See, here is where we have the standard Libbie practice of inverting reality. I read what the guy actually says. I listen to what he says. I think about what he says. You just let his sonorous platitudes wash over you without absorbing their meaning.




"Libbie"? Hahahahaha. You clearly did not read what he says, because your "summary" has nothing in common with his remarks. They've already been posted, as has his clarification. Missing the meaning once is bad enough, but now, even when he explains what he meant(and what was already in his original statements) in a clear and concise manner, you still miss the meaning completely. I already summarized the remarks: if you disagree with my interpretation, argue from the source.

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See above re Libbie inversion of reality. Psychologists call this trait of assigning to your opponents what you yourself do "projection".




Wow; your mastery of psychology amazes me. Please tell me more.

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Believing in God is a political opinion? Enjoying hunting is a political opinion?




No; supporting certain gun-related laws and opposing others is a political opinion, as is supporting any number of religiously motivated topics(vouchers, evolution, gay rights, etc.).

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It is true that Barry nominally "became" a Christian as a strictly political ploy, however. Maybe that's why he misunderstands the roots of faith of the vast majority of religious folks.

By the way, just so there are no misunderstandings here, I myself am a stone atheist, and have been for well over four decades now.




I honestly don't give a shit about your personal religion. As to Obama, that charge is ridiculous. For one thing, he's wrote at great length about his religious conversion and if you paid attention to the Democratic Forum on religion, you'd know that if he is faking it, he managed to do it superbly with a great deal of sincerity and thoughtfulness. But of course disproving this charge is virtually impossible, just like it'd be virtually impossible for you to disprove my allegation that you're a pedophile. You've presented no reason to believe he "faked" it other than your paranoia and obsession with applying every negative label known to the English language to him. How many other politicians do you believe are "faking it"? I find it odd that when any other politician joins a church, has photo-ops at the church and uses pastors and religious figures to build a base, they're just expressing their sincere beliefs but when Obama joins a church that's clearly not going to win him any easy votes, sticks by his unfairly-attacked pastor when renouncing him would be the easy thing to do, and writes at length about his personal religious convictions, he's cynically using his religion as a political ploy. McCain sucks up to disgusting bigots like Hagee with whom he has no personal connection and even approaches them for support when he had previously rejected them and their ilk as "agents of intolerance" and nary a peep but when Obama sticks up for his pastor when it would be politically expedient to throw him to the wolves, he's an opportunist.

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Economic despair? So if the mill had never closed down, these folks would still be color blind atheists who support gun control and open borders policy? Pull my other leg, junior.




This is a blatant strawman. He's not saying they believe in God because of their despair, he's saying that appeals to religious issues take greater prominence because a) they're one of the few subjects with which these voters can find common ground with mainstream politicians and because b) demagoguery works best amongst insecurity and frustration. That's basic psychology. But you already knew that, I'm sure.

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Of course you don't see anything wrong with it. You are a Liberal.




That's a great comeback AND an intelligent rebuttal!

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Apart from that religion-as-opiate-of-the-masses thing? How about the casual assumption that these people expect government to provide everything for them? Or the whole "false consciousness" trope of Marxist thought, that one's attitudes are determined by one's economic "class". And of course, the "what's wrong with Kansas" idiocy he's pushing.




None of which he said. He said that religion provided comfort in uncertain times, sure. I don't think that's very revolutionary or radical, nor is it linked to a call for a proletarian revolution. As to the second point: I don't think he assumed that at all. He does assume that people want the government to look out for their interests. Nobody's talking about nationalizing industry and having the government employ them directly: they want the government to do everything in its power to ensure there are jobs available for people willing to work. Those pinko punks! I'm sure the real red-blooded Americans think it's their fault the mills are closed and nobody's hiring. Obviously, they should have willed a prosperous economy into existence. As for the last part: calling it "false consciousness" is silly: he's not attributing the current climate to a class struggle, but rather to frustration and cynicism caused by economic stagnation. If I felt insecure about my future and saw my savings and quality of life dropping constantly, I'd be pissed off and cynical, too. And pissed off voters are easy fodder for demagogues; this has been true throughout history. It has nothing to do with class warfare and everything to do with expecting to be able to get a good day's wage for a good day's work and not seeing the people you've elected working to make that happen. Now I understand there are no easy answers, but recovery and rejuvenation is possible and people should expect their representatives to do everything in their power to make it a reality. If you wanna call that socialism, go ahead. But by that measure, the majority of Americans are socialists.

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I do, however, find it revealing that you seem to think "What's the Matter with Kansas" somehow qualifies as a serious work. It's no wonder then that you believe Obama has uttered something profound rather than stepping on his dick repeatedly in public -- he was basically (as was noted way back in maybe the second or third post in this thread) regurgitating the thesis of that shoddy screed. That book was such a worthless piece of trash no rational person can take it seriously.




Actually, a great deal of rational people do take it seriously and it enjoys a great deal of prestige amongst pop poli-sci books. But feel free to post a scathing critique by NewsMax or Anne Coulter.


Edited by Yossarian22 (04/14/08 03:28 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Icelander]
    #8282320 - 04/14/08 03:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
:rofl2: Your rant makes me laugh.

I had a post some months back where I said he seemed to be a likable guy. I think he was even ahead then. Now, I fucking can't stand him.

That just shows how you think like the typical american voter. Every new sound bite throws you into a different direction. How silly.




Sound bite?  No, I have changed my mind based on his exposure as a racist communist over several months.  The fact that YOU are an acolyte incapable of developing an informed opinion is rather more typical.  You formed your opinion before anybody knew anything about this guy and, dammit, you're sticking to it.  Good on yer, mate, you fucking genius you.

You do realize that reading this speech does not constitute a sound bite.  Or the Wright speeches, or the passages from Barry's book, or the typical white person remark or the general appeal to communist dicta.  None of that constitutes decision by sound bite.  Do you even know what a sound bite is?


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8282439 - 04/14/08 04:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well I agree w/ you in some respects zappa, of all the shit obama has done to sully his name, this is by far the least relevant for actual logical voting decisions. Please tell me you really don't care that much about him being "bitter"? Who cares, the other stuff matters, the isolationism, the tax increases, the desire to shut down capital in this country, et cet... this bitterness comment is the most irrelevant of any of the things I've mentioned above, prior post.


And Phred, come one man, can we quit w/ the LIberal name calling? I don't really see what this accomplishes other than being a taunt. It seems as anyone who doesn't see the relevance of this quote as to the candidates suitability for office, rather than popular appeal, must be a liberal to you. Come off it.

Maybe some just don't think stupid remarks like this echoing pretty standard stereotypes are a big deal as far as a metric of a candidate? I guess that makes me a liberal, but this liberal isn't voting for hillary or obama, and I guarentee his opinion on religious and gun toting and whatever other people he's slighted has nothing to do with it. For the record I'd think I'm one of the more accepting people as far as what I believe government should toleratee w/ re: to guns and religion.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8282710 - 04/14/08 05:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Quote:

Yossarian, your love for Obama has completely demolished your ability to understand what you are reading. If it were any other candidate saying these things, you'd easily recognize the condescension, the crypto-Marxist sentiment, the naked opportunism that drips from every pore of this empty suit.




No, your obsessive hatred of Obama has prevented you from actually reading his statements; when he opens his mouth, you see only a way to twist his words to make him look bad. You clearly don't try reading his statements and then in good faith interpret and analyze them. What he said was condescending only in the sense that he's discussing political opinions as being a reaction to various things, including demagoguery, cynicism and economic despair. I don't see anything wrong with such an analysis because I understand that our opinions and attitudes are shaped by the atmosphere we live and grow up in. And what exactly is so heinously "crypto-Marxist" about this statement? Is it the idea that one's economic situation influences one's behavior and attitude? Or the idea that the government should do what it can to protect its citizens' financial interests? If that's what communism means nowadays, I think you'll find that America's as red as a Bolshevik- remember how well McCain's "It's your own damn fault your house is being forclosed" idea went over? Of course, nothing tops the pure ridiculousness of the allegation that this is "opportunism". The mind boggles at how a frank, insightful and easily spinned statement is "opportunism"; it's the exact opposite. Opportunism would be uttering platitudes, saying bullshit like "Pennsylvanians aren't bitter; they're hopeful.". Platitudes are opportunism; hard and controversial truths are the exact opposite.




Why does my name appear in the reply to when the quotes are Phred's? Not that I disagree with anything he has said, nor would I presume to speak for him, but I will nonetheless take the opportunity to fisk your incredibly absurd gyroscope of a post. Thus:

Crypto_marxist: I will direct your attention to his direct channeling of the heinous slug Karl Marx's dicta that religion is the opiate of the masses. When times are tough, Obama opines, the aggrieved cleave unto their god for solace. Positively cling to it. This he said. Let us compare it to this:
“Religious suffering is at the same time an expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the sentiment of a heartless world, and the soul of a soulless condition. It is the opium of the people.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/opinion/14kristol.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Hmmmm. Hmmm. Why, that's exactly the same sentiment. No honest resort to religion for itself, just a clingyness in times of trouble. Because they're so bitter.
In spite of his own opportunistic remora act on the Rev. Wright's Church of Hate and his assertions of faith he really doesn't care for religious people at all. Which is fine. Just don't lie about it to get their vote.
Quote:





But since you're hellbent on demonizing him and jumping on anything he says that could possibly be damaging, no matter how facetious the interpretation, let's go over what he said.




Accurately quoting the jerk is not demonizing nor is there any "jumping on". If the asshole says something he must be held accountable and it will be commented on
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Quote:

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.




Translation: There's been a lot of speculation as to whether racism is going to play a role in the Pennsylvania primaries. Governor Ed Rendell claimed that Pennsylvania's not ready to vote for a black president. The New York Times ran an article questioning how much my race is going to be a liability. I don't think that explains the challenge I'm facing in Pennsylvania; convincing cynical voters who've been let down time and time again and have had promises to them ignored to vote for a campaign whose message is change is hope is the real challenge.




I'm going to slice out the offending part of that since you can't seem to find it for yourself:

where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding

Nobody other than you is misunderstanding, Barry. They just don't want your commie crap and they don't want your fucking help and they don't want to hear any more bullshit from lying douchebag politicians like yourself telling them that their life sucks and you're going to make it better. It doesn't and you're not
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Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).




Same thing, except he makes an aside that being young, having a foreign name, and being black compounds the challenge. Even if you take this as an accusation that Pennsylvanians are racist, he's still downplaying it. And quite frankly, if you don't think that being black is an electoral hurdle in many parts of the US, you're pretty damn naive. But again: he's not whining about how being black is hurting him; he's saying that's just a small part of the challenge.




"These dumb fucking crackers would sure as shit be more receptive to my message of lifeboat governance by Washington elites if only I wasn't a nigger." Verily I do paraphrase but it is foresooth t3h troof.
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But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.




He's saying: I can present talking points about what I'm going to do, but the truth is they've heard it all before. If I want to get their trust, I'm going to have to earn it; I'm going to have to produce results and not just promise half-hearted and vague optimism. Their concerns and their pleas for help have gone unnoticed, and so they cling to areas where they can still excercise influence- social issues like gun control, anti-immigrant sentiment, etc. which the Republican party, who doesn't give a shit about these voters when it comes to demanding real change, are all too happy to encourage this kind of politics for more leverage.



Except they haven't made pleas for the kind of change he wants to bring, shudder. These people want the federal government to just go away as much as possible. They don't want your fucking help, they would just as soon do it themselves, and you and your commie ilk can fuck off forever. Does that make them stoopit? NO. It makes them honorable. Any of them that want that horrorshow can move to DC. Does this Barrydouche think he can make them all rich? He can only make them poorer.
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Quote:

[


Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.




I don't see how this could be any clearer: racial or demographic stereotypes about who's supporting who and why are overly simplistic and not something we should be obsessed with.

If you don't believe me that's what Obama meant, then check out his clarification.

In fact, it sounds a lot like these statements:

"The reason (George H. W. Bush's tactic) works so well now is that you have all these economically insecure white people who are scared to death,"- Hillary Clinton, 1991

"You know, he [Bush] wants to divide us over race. I'm from the South. I understand this. This quota deal they're gonna pull in the next election is the same old scam they've been pulling on us for decade after decade after decade. When their economic policies fail, when the country's coming apart rather than coming together, what do they do? They find the most economically insecure white men and scare the living daylights out of them. They know if they can keep us looking at each other across a racial divide, if I can look at Bobby Rush and think, Bobby wants my job, my promotion, then neither of us can look at George Bush and say, 'What happened to everybody's job? What happened to everybody's income? What ... have ... you ... done ... to ... our ... country?'"(Also Clinton)

Moreover, this is a relatively well-known phenomenon in political science and sociology circles. The most famous book on the subject is What's the Matter With Kansas. Instead of writing them off as stupid hicks like the Democratic establishment and the DLC wing of the party especially, Obama's clearly trying to understand where they're coming from and create common ground: We may disagree on gun control, or gay rights, but we have much more important issues in common.

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So the same shit came out of another commie douche's mouth. What a surprise. And Obama actually is writing them off as hicks. IT'S WHAT HE SAID.
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Must be nice. Slice it how you like, but he had a lot easier childhood than most of us. While he was going to private school on his grandparents dime, I was picking up aluminum cans along the side of the road to turn in for lunch money at public school. (literally)

Sorry, but you are not going to win any tears from me for somebody having a hard childhood. I lived a hard childhood and I have known people that had it a lot worse than I did. How many birthday's did Obama miss because his family couldn't afford a birthday cake, never mind birthday presents? My guess would be zero.




So what? You had a tougher childhood than Obama. Congratulations. Clearly, anyone whose family could afford a birthday present is out of touch with America. As is anyone who's lived overseas, in Hawaii, or in black communities, or in San Fransisco.

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They aren't being used as a scapegoat, rather, tolerance for "freeloaders" is dropping. When the pantry is full, nobody minds sharing. When the pantry is almost empty, people tend to look out for their own first. It isn't that people are blaming the illegal aliens for the economic problems (though they certainly don't help), but that people are a lot less willing to share what little they have left with illegal aliens.







People are not willing to share anything with illegal aliens, in good or bad. You and the NY Times seem to have an odd inability to comprehend that word. Must be dyslexia.
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If you think that undocumented immigrants are "freeloaders" then not only are you xenophobic, you're also not doing too well in the thinking department there. Did you know that Mexicans cross the border to live off our generous welfare programs and make gobs of cash from our easy jobs?




Yep, you are dyslexic. You have no comprehension of the English Language. Undocumented does not substitute for Illegal. Undocumented is someone who lost his passport. Illegal is a criminal.
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Which is completely and utterly irrelevant to the fact that this particular socialist cunt is also a condescending asshole. There is no taint involved he is asshole and cunt in one. I had a post some months back where I said he seemed to be a likable guy. I think he was even ahead then. Now, I fucking can't stand him. You know that bitterness thing leading to religion? It's called projection. I am not the least bit interested in a bitter man being my President. Nor a socialist. He also married a bitter bitch and attended the church of a bitter asshole and if there is going to be a bitter President he damn well isn't going to be a bitter black man who hates well to do white people. Because THAT, my friends, is diametrically opposed to MY interests. That goes without mentioning the general disaster a commie is. His latest San Fran whine is straight out of Marxist "religion is the opiate" screed. Why do you take opium? To relieve pain. That is exactly what he said.

Marxist racist envious turd. Also, an arch panderer. Hasn't he himself been railing against free trade? Why yes, yes he has. Hasn't he himself embraced religion? Why yes, yes he has. What does he say about guns? Very little but it seems to vary depending on the audience. Likewise the Iraq situation. Some days it's everybody out tomorrow, some days it's nothing precipitous. NAFTA? Who knows.

There is nothing Changey about Barry except his skin color. He is not going to help small towns nor should he. But neither should he be so condescending to people who choose a different life.




I think you got some spittle on your monitor there.

The fact that he so enrages you, you who thinks that Hoover's response to the Great Depression is apparently a model to follow, who can't be convinced of scientific fact, and who thinks anything to the left of Ron Paul is a diehar communist, really reassures me. If he pisses you off so much, he must be doing something right.







Finally you get to something I wrote. Your response is empty but at least it's something I wrote.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8286541 - 04/15/08 01:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

racist communist :rofl2:

Another brilliant post from you where you ass ume that I like obama. My informed opinion about politicians is that they are all pretty much hucksters and they play to dupes.;)


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Icelander]
    #8286603 - 04/15/08 01:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


Why does my name appear in the reply to when the quotes are Phred's? Not that I disagree with anything he has said, nor would I presume to speak for him, but I will nonetheless take the opportunity to fisk your incredibly absurd gyroscope of a post. Thus:





Because I typed my reply into the "Quick Reply" box.

Quote:


Crypto_marxist: I will direct your attention to his direct channeling of the heinous slug Karl Marx's dicta that religion is the opiate of the masses. When times are tough, Obama opines, the aggrieved cleave unto their god for solace. Positively cling to it. This he said. Let us compare it to this:
“Religious suffering is at the same time an expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the sentiment of a heartless world, and the soul of a soulless condition. It is the opium of the people.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/opinion/14kristol.html?_r=1&oref=slogin




Don't cite Bill Kristol; he's barely a step above Anne Coulter. The fact that you don't see the difference between the two quotes means you have no business interpreting Marx(or anything for that matter). The full quote is:

Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.
Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people [Emphasis added]
The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.


If you can't tell a difference between that and "religion comforts people in times of need and uncertainty", I don't know what to say.

Quote:


I'm going to slice out the offending part of that since you can't seem to find it for yourself:

where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding

Nobody other than you is misunderstanding, Barry. They just don't want your commie crap and they don't want your fucking help and they don't want to hear any more bullshit from lying douchebag politicians like yourself telling them that their life sucks and you're going to make it better. It doesn't and you're not




You sound like the crazy guy on the streetcorner ranting about the impending apocalypse. By the way, the "people" he's referring to are the people who claim that his main obstacle is his race, or at least those who believe in rigid demographic patterns(ie, blacks vote for Obama, poor whites vote for Clinton, etc.) So he's saying the exact opposite of what you're claiming. Who has reading problems again?

Quote:



Except they haven't made pleas for the kind of change he wants to bring, shudder. These people want the federal government to just go away as much as possible. They don't want your fucking help, they would just as soon do it themselves, and you and your commie ilk can fuck off forever. Does that make them stoopit? NO. It makes them honorable. Any of them that want that horrorshow can move to DC. Does this Barrydouche think he can make them all rich?




You've made a concrete assertion. Now back it up. Show that the vast majority of white working class residents of the rust belt support laissez-faire capitalism and want less government aid and support. Do it. I'm waiting. Also, nice strawman in the last part.

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So the same shit came out of another commie douche's mouth. What a surprise. And Obama actually is writing them off as hicks. IT'S WHAT HE SAID.




Commie douche. Classy and insightful!

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People are not willing to share anything with illegal aliens, in good or bad. You and the NY Times seem to have an odd inability to comprehend that word. Must be dyslexia.




People can immigrate illegally, but they are not illegal. Illegal is an adjective, not an adverb and while actions and inert objects can be illegal, no person is illegal. They are undocumented. Also, nobody's talking about "sharing" with them we're talking about tolerance and compassion. But you'd know nothing about that. Also, illegal immigration is the furthest thing from "freeloading" nor does it have any significant effects on unemployment levels or wage rates.

Quote:


Yep, you are dyslexic. You have no comprehension of the English Language. Undocumented does not substitute for Illegal. Undocumented is someone who lost his passport. Illegal is a criminal.




Apparently you're too lazy or stupid to look up what dyslexia means. Also, an immigrant who lost their passport is an immigrant waiting for their passport to arrive from their embassy, not an undocumented immigrant.


Edited by Yossarian22 (04/15/08 02:09 PM)


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OfflineYossarian22
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8286632 - 04/15/08 02:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And it seems voters are furious, absolutely furious. How dare Obama claim they're bitter and feel betrayed by mainstream politics? Certainly their fury shall rain from the heavens and cause a veritable tidal wave in the polls. Or not:

Quote:

Interest in Barack Obama's "bitter" comments have left the political world with bated breath, wondering what the polls say. Since the story broke on Friday, the chattering class has speculated at length about how voters might respond to the remarks (and the overheated coverage of said remarks), without having any idea whether anyone would actually care as much as they do.

The Washington Post's Chris Cillizza noted this morning that if the polls show Hillary Clinton getting a significant bump in the polls, "bitter-gate" will look like "a seminal moment in the campaign," and may even doom Obama's campaign. If she doesn't, "all of this will quickly be relegated to the dustbin of history as much sound and fury signifying nothing."

So, what's the verdict? At this point, the data points towards the latter. Eric Kleefeld reported:

The Pennsylvania polls are coming fast and furious today -- and while most show a slight uptick in support for Hillary, they all appear to indicate that Obama's "small town" comments are not yet causing any big movement.

SurveyUSA shows Obama gaining a couple of points, with a strong majority of Pennsylvanians saying they weren't offended by the remarks. Rasmussen shows Clinton gaining a couple of points, with a plurality concluding that Obama's comments were not "elitist." Quinnipiac, meanwhile, shows no change at all.

What about the national picture? The Gallup Daily Tracking poll shows Obama maintaining his lead, with "a 51% to 40% margin in the April 12-14 average." The 11-point margin in the poll, taken in the midst of the media flare-up, "is the largest for Obama this year, and marks the ninth consecutive day in which Obama has led Clinton by a statistically significant margin."

Obviously, the landscape could change. Voters who weren't following the news over the weekend may learn about the story and feel insulted.

That said, as campaign-changing moments go, this flap is starting to look a little underwhelming, at least for now.




Edited by Yossarian22 (04/15/08 02:17 PM)


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8286652 - 04/15/08 02:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


You've made a concrete assertion. Now back it up. Show that the vast majority of white working class residents of the rust belt support laissez-faire capitalism and want less government aid and support. Do it. I'm waiting. Also, nice strawman.




Don't even bother asking. Asking Zappa to back something he says up is useless. Just take a quick look at the global warming megathread.

Otherwise, you seem to have a good handle on things here. I really am not to keen on all of this stupid hot-button distractions. Quite honestly, every time something like this comes up (for all three candidates), I wonder why it gets more air play than the real issues, like our falling dollar, our global climate change, and the continuing cost of a pointless war.

Seems like its just politics of old.
Not the kind of politics I will support.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: supernovasky]
    #8286798 - 04/15/08 02:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"It's not surprising, then, that they get Bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama


"or anti-trade sentiment"

anti-trade sentiment???????


WTF

Obama is not big pro free trade guy?

Is he?


Columbia trade deal....


Nafta....


Does that make Obama one of the Guns-God-Bitter folks???


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8286906 - 04/15/08 03:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
And it seems voters are furious, absolutely furious. How dare Obama claim they're bitter and feel betrayed by mainstream politics? Certainly their fury shall rain from the heavens and cause a veritable tidal wave in the polls. Or not:

Quote:

Interest in Barack Obama's "bitter" comments have left the political world with bated breath, wondering what the polls say. Since the story broke on Friday, the chattering class has speculated at length about how voters might respond to the remarks (and the overheated coverage of said remarks), without having any idea whether anyone would actually care as much as they do.

The Washington Post's Chris Cillizza noted this morning that if the polls show Hillary Clinton getting a significant bump in the polls, "bitter-gate" will look like "a seminal moment in the campaign," and may even doom Obama's campaign. If she doesn't, "all of this will quickly be relegated to the dustbin of history as much sound and fury signifying nothing."

So, what's the verdict? At this point, the data points towards the latter. Eric Kleefeld reported:

The Pennsylvania polls are coming fast and furious today -- and while most show a slight uptick in support for Hillary, they all appear to indicate that Obama's "small town" comments are not yet causing any big movement.

SurveyUSA shows Obama gaining a couple of points, with a strong majority of Pennsylvanians saying they weren't offended by the remarks. Rasmussen shows Clinton gaining a couple of points, with a plurality concluding that Obama's comments were not "elitist." Quinnipiac, meanwhile, shows no change at all.

What about the national picture? The Gallup Daily Tracking poll shows Obama maintaining his lead, with "a 51% to 40% margin in the April 12-14 average." The 11-point margin in the poll, taken in the midst of the media flare-up, "is the largest for Obama this year, and marks the ninth consecutive day in which Obama has led Clinton by a statistically significant margin."

Obviously, the landscape could change. Voters who weren't following the news over the weekend may learn about the story and feel insulted.

That said, as campaign-changing moments go, this flap is starting to look a little underwhelming, at least for now.








The majority of Pennsylvanians WOULD agree with his remarks, because they don't apply to them.
Because the majority of Pennslyvanians don't live in small towns. They're from Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Allentown, Erie, Reading, Scranton, Bethlehem, Lancaster, Altoona, and Harrisburg... and they tend to look down upon those poor backwards folk living out in the middle of nowhere.
My aunt lives in Harrisburg, heard the remarks, and thought they were accurate and not insulting. She likes Obama and is pretty left anyway.
My dad lives here, heard the remarks, and thought they were condescending and high-handed. He very much does not like Obama -- not even more than Hillary (pick between eating a rotten apple and a rotten pear).

So the people who live in cities and were not the target of Obama's disparaging remarks are no less likely to vote for him, but probably little more likely.
People who live in more rural areas who were the target of Obama's remarks and who already weren't going to vote for him, are still not going to vote for him.

I've not yet met anyone from Small Town, PA who was going to vote for Obama. I'd like to hear their take on things.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #8287023 - 04/15/08 04:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But that's not what the polls are saying: they're not just saying "the majority of Pennsylvanians agree"; they're also saying that the remarks didn't cause any significant drop in his support. So either big-city Pennsylvanians are more attracted to him because of the statements or nobody really cares.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8287095 - 04/15/08 04:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Let's be clear.
He wasn't getting much support to begin with from the people he was denigrating.
He's still behind Hillary here.

And considering how polarized this whole thing is -- you HATE hillary, or you LOVE hillary, or you LOVE obama or whatever -- it's not too shocking that the Obama love fest crowd is unphased by this whole fiasco and that he's not lost any ground. He's just pissed off people who *haven't* decided they're voting for Obama.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #8287125 - 04/15/08 04:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Or, alternatively: the only people who took offense were the people who didn't like Obama to begin with and who were looking for an excuse to bash him. By the way, he didn't denigrate anyone in his comments, so stop referring to them as "he people he was denigrating".


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8287142 - 04/15/08 04:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Quote:


Crypto_marxist: I will direct your attention to his direct channeling of the heinous slug Karl Marx's dicta that religion is the opiate of the masses. When times are tough, Obama opines, the aggrieved cleave unto their god for solace. Positively cling to it. This he said. Let us compare it to this:
“Religious suffering is at the same time an expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the sentiment of a heartless world, and the soul of a soulless condition. It is the opium of the people.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/opinion/14kristol.html?_r=1&oref=slogin




Don't cite Bill Kristol; he's barely a step above Anne Coulter. The fact that you don't see the difference between the two quotes means you have no business interpreting Marx(or anything for that matter). The full quote is:

Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.
Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people [Emphasis added]
The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.


If you can't tell a difference between that and "religion comforts people in times of need and uncertainty", I don't know what to say.




I only used Kristol because he was a handy source of Marx's words. And I do in fact believe that "religion comforts people in times of need and uncertainty" is an absolutely accurate assessment of what Marx said. Also, an accurate assessment of what Barry said. But that is not all that Barry said. Barry said that their clinging to religion is a result of their fallen economic state. Well off religious people might beg to differ. I personally have no use for religion, but this charlatan has made a show of his religion, as ugly as it is(Rev Wright), and then comes out saying that people are religious because they are bitter because nobody has been there to give them presents. Not really gonna fly very far.
Quote:



Quote:


I'm going to slice out the offending part of that since you can't seem to find it for yourself:

where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding

Nobody other than you is misunderstanding, Barry. They just don't want your commie crap and they don't want your fucking help and they don't want to hear any more bullshit from lying douchebag politicians like yourself telling them that their life sucks and you're going to make it better. It doesn't and you're not




You sound like the crazy guy on the streetcorner ranting about the impending apocalypse. By the way, the "people" he's referring to are the people who claim that his main obstacle is his race, or at least those who believe in rigid demographic patterns(ie, blacks vote for Obama, poor whites vote for Clinton, etc.) So he's saying the exact opposite of what you're claiming. Who has reading problems again?




The person who claims his main obstacle is race is Barry. Let me reiterate, Barry said that it was more difficult for them to accept his message because it came from a black man. You can leave that part out but it won't make it go away.
Quote:



Quote:



Except they haven't made pleas for the kind of change he wants to bring, shudder. These people want the federal government to just go away as much as possible. They don't want your fucking help, they would just as soon do it themselves, and you and your commie ilk can fuck off forever. Does that make them stoopit? NO. It makes them honorable. Any of them that want that horrorshow can move to DC. Does this Barrydouche think he can make them all rich?




You've made a concrete assertion. Now back it up. Show that the vast majority of white working class residents of the rust belt support laissez-faire capitalism and want less government aid and support. Do it. I'm waiting. Also, nice strawman in the last part.




In case you haven't noticed, they keep voting Republican. Works for me.
Quote:



Quote:

So the same shit came out of another commie douche's mouth. What a surprise. And Obama actually is writing them off as hicks. IT'S WHAT HE SAID.




Commie douche. Classy and insightful!


More insightful than your citation of the commie douche
Quote:



Quote:


People are not willing to share anything with illegal aliens, in good or bad. You and the NY Times seem to have an odd inability to comprehend that word. Must be dyslexia.




People can immigrate illegally, but they are not illegal. Illegal is an adjective, not an adverb and while actions and inert objects can be illegal, no person is illegal. They are undocumented. Also, nobody's talking about "sharing" with them we're talking about tolerance and compassion. But you'd know nothing about that. Also, illegal immigration is the furthest thing from "freeloading" nor does it have any significant effects on unemployment levels or wage rates.




Holy shit what a bunch of pompous twaddle.



Quote:


Yep, you are dyslexic. You have no comprehension of the English Language. Undocumented does not substitute for Illegal. Undocumented is someone who lost his passport. Illegal is a criminal.




Apparently you're too lazy or stupid to look up what dyslexia means. Also, an immigrant who lost their passport is an immigrant waiting for their passport to arrive from their embassy, not an undocumented immigrant.




If they don't have their document, they are undocumented. As a subset of undocumented aliens, there are those who crossed the border without passing through the proper portals. Another subset is those who passed through properly but have overstayed their permitted time period. Another subset is those who are working without proper work visas. Some persons may be members of more than one subset. I may be missing a subset but the members of anyone of those three that I mentioned are in violation of current US law. They are performing illegal acts and are thus criminals. Capisce? But you are right about one thing. They don't have much impact on wages for the stupid bitter people who can't understand a message that is discredited since time immemorial because it is a black messiah delivering it.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8287177 - 04/15/08 04:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Or, alternatively: the only people who took offense were the people who didn't like Obama to begin with and who were looking for an excuse to bash him. 




Don't forget the paid actors in Hillary's television ad. :wink:


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8287223 - 04/15/08 05:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


I only used Kristol because he was a handy source of Marx's words. And I do in fact believe that "religion comforts people in times of need and uncertainty" is an absolutely accurate assessment of what Marx said.




Well, you're wrong. You don't know shit about Marx and you don't know how to read. Sorry to break it to you;

Quote:

Barry said that their clinging to religion is a result of their fallen economic state. Well off religious people might beg to differ. I personally have no use for religion, but this charlatan has made a show of his religion, as ugly as it is(Rev Wright), and then comes out saying that people are religious because they are bitter because nobody has been there to give them presents. Not really gonna fly very far.




That's not what he said. He has specifically clarified that's not what he means and it's clear from the quote that's not what he means. Just because you want that to be what he said doesn't make it so.

Quote:


The person who claims his main obstacle is race is Barry. Let me reiterate, Barry said that it was more difficult for them to accept his message because it came from a black man. You can leave that part out but it won't make it go away.




What Obama said:
Quote:

So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.




You're wrong and it couldn't be clearer. Learn to read.

Quote:

In case you haven't noticed, they keep voting Republican. Works for me.




No. This is a bullshit copout. You made a claim, now defend it. Show me EVIDENCE that you weren't just spewing verbal diarrhea. SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE. You claimed that white working class voters in the Rust Belt wanted less government aid and support. That's not the same thing as voting Republican. So once again back that shit up or admit you were lying out your ass. I'm still waiting.

Quote:

More insightful than your citation of the commie douche




I know you are but what am I?

Quote:



If they don't have their document, they are undocumented. As a subset of undocumented aliens, there are those who crossed the border without passing through the proper portals. Another subset is those who passed through properly but have overstayed their permitted time period. Another subset is those who are working without proper work visas. Some persons may be members of more than one subset. I may be missing a subset but the members of anyone of those three that I mentioned are in violation of current US law. They are performing illegal acts and are thus criminals. Capisce? But you are right about one thing. They don't have much impact on wages for the stupid bitter people who can't understand a message that is discredited since time immemorial because it is a black messiah delivering it.




No; if they don't have their passport on them but they've still applied for residency, they're on the record and thus they're not undocumented. Also, all three of those subsets would be considered "illegal immigrants" as it's commonly used. Unless of course it's just code for "them Mexicans". You may call them criminals, but then again, you're posting on a forum dedicated to the manufacture of a schedule I controlled substance so I wouldn't go around throwing stones. They are however not illegal, because a person cannot be illegal. They may have immigrated illegally(mainly because it's impossible to immigrate legally for almost all of them) but they themselves are not illegal. You started this semantic bullshit, so don't go calling my response "pompous twaddle". Also your last sentence makes no sense.

So until you back up your assertions, you have absolutely no credibility. You make dramatic claims with no support, and your arguing tactics are less developed than a fifth grader's. So either back up your statements or stop posting.


Edited by Yossarian22 (04/15/08 05:09 PM)


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Yossarian22]
    #8287318 - 04/15/08 05:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Or, alternatively: the only people who took offense were the people who didn't like Obama to begin with and who were looking for an excuse to bash him. By the way, he didn't denigrate anyone in his comments, so stop referring to them as "he people he was denigrating".





.. except he did, and that's how it's being interpreted so even if he didn't, he did.


Tell me, did or did not someone get fired for saying the word "Niggardly" in front of a black man? Is that word denigrating? No? But it was TAKEN to be insulting, and there were consequences.
What you say is less important than how others interpret what you say.

.. and all that is moot, since he was being condescending.


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #8287403 - 04/15/08 05:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mushmonkey said:
Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Or, alternatively: the only people who took offense were the people who didn't like Obama to begin with and who were looking for an excuse to bash him. By the way, he didn't denigrate anyone in his comments, so stop referring to them as "he people he was denigrating".





.. except he did, and that's how it's being interpreted so even if he didn't, he did.


Tell me, did or did not someone get fired for saying the word "Niggardly" in front of a black man? Is that word denigrating? No? But it was TAKEN to be insulting, and there were consequences.
What you say is less important than how others interpret what you say.

.. and all that is moot, since he was being condescending.





who got fired?

Irregardless,no, the intent of the speaker or actor is what we should recognize, as well as logic.

Saying niggardly isn't per se an intent to cause harm, and it shouldn't be interpreted as such


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #8287411 - 04/15/08 05:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No, he wasn't. He was trying to explain to people from across the country the reason why the political atmosphere in Pennsylvania is the way it is. The attitude he was trying to dispel was that they're just stupid hicks, so forget about them. He said, no, they've got a right to be cynical and angry and this cynicism and anger has political consequences; if we want to get their support, we've got to earn it by showing that the government can help them. He worded it awkwardly, but you can still tell what he meant, and if that's not enough, he even clarified it and stated point blank what he meant.

I don't know what "niggardly" has to do with it- if somebody got fired for using that word, that's bullshit but I don't see the connection. I realize that perception matters and that Clinton and McCain are spinning like crazy, but it doesn't seem to be working since it hasn't hurt him either nationally or locally. So if perception's everything, it's pretty clear that it's not really being perceived as condescending, is it?


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: johnm214]
    #8287662 - 04/15/08 06:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

johnm214 writes:

Quote:

And Phred, come one man, can we quit w/ the LIberal name calling? I don't really see what this accomplishes other than being a taunt. It seems as anyone who doesn't see the relevance of this quote as to the candidates suitability for office, rather than popular appeal, must be a liberal to you. Come off it.




It's not name-calling. It's an accurate observation that Libbies and Cons look at things differently. As some of the earliest posts in the thread point out, Libbies don't get what the fuss is all about because they agree 100% with what Obama said. Several of the members in this thread have made a point of claiming that they have lived among "these people" all (or nearly all) their lives, and that "these people" are precisely as Obama described them -- bible thumping, gun hugging, racist xenophobes.

So when yet another member declares yet again in so many words, "What's the fuss about? He's only telling the truth," I point out that of course he believes Obama's words to be truthful -- that he as a fellow Libby holds the same condescending attitude toward the flyover people that Obama does.




Phred


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8287707 - 04/15/08 06:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
So when yet another member declares yet again in so many words, "What's the fuss about? He's only telling the truth," I point out that of course he believes Obama's words to be truthful -- that he as a fellow Libby holds the same condescending attitude toward the flyover people that Obama does.





Whether or not one trusts the validity of Obama's observation has absolutely nothing to do with political affiliation. Do you honestly believe that no conservative "elitists" share this sentiment? How ignorant of a claim are you attempting to make?


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: SoY]
    #8288248 - 04/15/08 08:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SoY said:
Quote:

Phred said:
So when yet another member declares yet again in so many words, "What's the fuss about? He's only telling the truth," I point out that of course he believes Obama's words to be truthful -- that he as a fellow Libby holds the same condescending attitude toward the flyover people that Obama does.





Whether or not one trusts the validity of Obama's observation has absolutely nothing to do with political affiliation.  Do you honestly believe that no conservative "elitists" share this sentiment?  How ignorant of a claim are you attempting to make?




:thumbup:

It's exactly this kind of black and white thinking that most people concerned with their political affiliation seem to use. It's so irrational that I have basically lost hope for this country. If it ain't politics it's religion. If this is the best humanity has got thank goodness I've got my fiddle ready.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Phred]
    #8288619 - 04/15/08 10:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:

So when yet another member declares yet again in so many words, "What's the fuss about? He's only telling the truth," I point out that of course he believes Obama's words to be truthful -- that he as a fellow Libby holds the same condescending attitude toward the flyover people that Obama does.

Phred




Its Amazing.

Even Obama who is running for the President of the united states does not understand how he has insulted these people!

Barack Hussein Obama is an idiot.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8288657 - 04/15/08 10:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I also don't understand how he has "insulted" these people.

From my experience growing up in the Bible belt it's always been true. Guns and fucking religion. Oh and lots of alcohol.:thumbup: America the beautiful.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: SoY]
    #8288734 - 04/15/08 10:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Do you honestly believe that no conservative "elitists" share this sentiment?




Not real familiar with the rules of logic, are you?

But as it happens, I think it highly unlikely many conservatives believe the reason people in small town America are religious and like to hunt is because the jobs their fathers worked twenty-five years ago aren't here any longer, no.




Phred


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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: johnm214]
    #8289488 - 04/16/08 12:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Mushmonkey said:
Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
Or, alternatively: the only people who took offense were the people who didn't like Obama to begin with and who were looking for an excuse to bash him. By the way, he didn't denigrate anyone in his comments, so stop referring to them as "he people he was denigrating".





..  except he did, and that's how it's being interpreted so even if he didn't, he did.


Tell me, did or did not someone get fired for saying the word "Niggardly" in front of a black man?  Is that word denigrating?  No?  But it was TAKEN to be insulting, and there were consequences.
What you say is less important than how others interpret what you say.

..  and all that is moot, since he was being condescending.


 


who got fired?

Irregardless,no, the intent of the speaker or actor is what we should recognize, as well as logic.

Saying niggardly isn't per se an intent to cause harm, and it shouldn't be interpreted as such




http://www.adversity.net/special/niggardly.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/daily/jan99/district27.htm
Memory:  I has it.


Quote:

Yossarian22 said:
No, he wasn't. He was trying to explain to people from across the country the reason why the political atmosphere in Pennsylvania is the way it is. The attitude he was trying to dispel was that they're just stupid hicks, so forget about them. He said, no, they've got a right to be cynical and angry and this cynicism and anger has political consequences; if we want to get their support, we've got to earn it by showing that the government can help them.  He worded it awkwardly, but you can still tell what he meant, and if that's not enough, he even clarified it and stated point blank what he meant.

I don't know what "niggardly" has to do with it- if somebody got fired for using that word, that's bullshit but I don't see the connection. I realize that perception matters and that Clinton and McCain are spinning like crazy, but it doesn't seem to be working since it hasn't hurt him either nationally or locally. So if perception's everything, it's pretty clear that it's not really being perceived as condescending, is it?




Perception IS everything.

And yes, he was being condescending.  He was saying that there are serious problems in those areas that have made the people turn bitter, and rather than concentrating on that serious problem they are instead focusing on unimportant drivel like religion, guns, hating black people or mexicans or free trade.  It's an insight into his -- and the liberal-at-large -- mindset:  if you disagree, you obviously are being blinded or distracted, because they HAVE the correct answer.  It's not a matter of debate, it's not a matter of differing opinions.  There is right, and there is wrong, and HE has a firm grasp of what is right.  Any discussion otherwise is pointless, since he is right -- if you can't see that he's right, well there's something wrong with you.  You must be bitter.  That's why you keep clinging to your guns, or your religion, or don't exactly trust the black people livin across town (never mind it's a fucking ghetto and you're RIGHT not to trust them, not because they're black but because they're fucking awful people), or why you don't want to keep letting mexicans walk into our country unchecked while we get fucking anally probed for flying into canada with proper documentation, or why you think completely unchecked free trade could be a disaster (which it can be, but welcome to globalization:  there IS no right answer, all answers lead to somebody getting screwed).


Quote:

Icelander said:
I also don't understand how he has "insulted" these people.

From my experience growing up in the Bible belt it's always been true. Guns and fucking religion. Oh and lots of alcohol.:thumbup: America the beautiful.




You never stepped down out of your ivory tower long enough to realize they're people too, apparently.

I'm completely devoid of any faith, yet somehow I've got along JUST FINE with "those people" my entire life.  And hey, I'm pro-choice, I'm for drug legalization, half my family's black and I (gasp) READ BOOKS!  But somehow I can survive among "those people" and actually talk to them and have a good time?  Huh, must be because I'm not constantly telling myself how much better I am than they are or something, who knows.


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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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InvisibleAhronZombi
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #8289525 - 04/16/08 01:04 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

RedNecks Fuck em. I personally want a intelligent president that those people would feel comfortable around. Growing up in KY you dont have to be very smart to relies that allot of rednecks hate people smarter than them.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: AhronZombi]
    #8290406 - 04/16/08 07:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

> I personally want a intelligent president

I want an effective president that protects my freedom and defends the constitution.  Intelligence (in a president) is overrated; look at Jimmy Carter, one of the most intelligent presidents we have ever had, yet one of the most ineffective presidents we have ever had.

> in KY you dont (sic) have to be very smart to relies (sic) that allot (sic) of

Nice example.  :grin:


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: AhronZombi]
    #8290743 - 04/16/08 11:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

AhronZombi said:
RedNecks Fuck em.

I personally want a intelligent president that those people would feel comfortable around.

Growing up in KY you dont have to be very smart to relies that allot of rednecks hate people smarter than them.




are "those people" Typical White People?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #8291191 - 04/16/08 01:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You never stepped down out of your ivory tower long enough to realize they're people too, apparently.

I'm completely devoid of any faith, yet somehow I've got along JUST FINE with "those people" my entire life. And hey, I'm pro-choice, I'm for drug legalization, half my family's black and I (gasp) READ BOOKS! But somehow I can survive among "those people" and actually talk to them and have a good time? Huh, must be because I'm not constantly telling myself how much better I am than they are or something, who knows.


What a joke. I lived with and like these people for much of my life and never even glimpsed an ivory tower. And Hitler was people too dude but I don't have to get along with that bullshit, but maybe we just have different standards for human behavior. I can find something to like in anyone just like you but I'm still able to call someone on acting like an idiot too. Frankly IMO most of these folk act this way most of the time. When they vote they vote for ideas I personally consider ugly and self destructive but that's just me. In the end we're all just humans, all the same. I just enjoy and respect some more than others.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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