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Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office
    #9596122 -

Great move and an absolute no-brainer.  This portends a quick end to the Bush Doctrine of holding people *FOREVER* with no charges, no defense, and no trial.  The Bush Administration has long cried to anyone who would listen that these people are, without exception, hideous terrorists who would surely attack America if they ever had a chance to do so again.  If they are that bad, fucking try them in a court.  I have no doubt that many of them are quite as bad as is claimed, as evidenced by the refusal of their parent countries to take them back.  But I also do not for a moment doubt that some of them are completely innocent.  Confusion is rampant in war-zones, and the idea that some of these people were seized mistakenly does not seem as far-fetched to me as it apparently does to Conservatives.

And that only deals with the creation of procedures to give these people some kind of time in court.  The physical closing of the prison itself is equally as intelligent a move.  While the Bush Administration has long pursued a policy of doing whatever is contrary to international opinion almost as a matter of course, there is no reason to inflame sentiment with such a visible reminder of American arrogance for the rule of law.  At a cynically practical level, even if the new President were going to endorse the Bush policy of holding these people indefinitely w/out trial, as I assume Mccain would have done upon his election, it would make sense to do so in a less visible location.

Quote:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/12/obama.gitmo/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President-elect Barack Obama plans to close the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay as early as his first week in office to show a break from the Bush administration's approach to the war on terror, according to two officials close to the transition.
President-elect Barack Obama is expected to sign an order closing the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

President-elect Barack Obama is expected to sign an order closing the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

One of the officials said it would be in keeping with Obama's campaign promise to shut down the prison through executive order, a move which was also pushed by last year's Republican presidential nominee, Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona.

"The president-elect has repeatedly said the legal framework at Gitmo has failed to successfully and swiftly prosecute terrorists," said one of the officials close to the transition, who was not authorized to speak publicly about private deliberations.

Such a move would reassure those concerned after Obama's recent public comments suggested he may not immediately shut the prison down.

"It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize and we are going to get it done, but part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom who may be very dangerous who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication," Obama said on ABC's "This Week" on Sunday when asked whether he would close the prison in his first 100 days.


Obama also said he was trying to develop a process that "adheres to rule of law" but "doesn't result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up."

"I think it's going to take some time and our legal teams are working in consultation with our national security apparatus as we speak, to help design exactly what we need to do," Obama said.

"But I don't want to be ambiguous about this. We are going to close Guantanamo and we are going to make sure that the procedures we set up are ones that abide by our Constitution," he said.

The military prison at Guantanamo Bay is a major issue because for critics of the Bush administration, it has become a symbol of mismanagement and overreach in the war on terror.

At his final White House press conference on Monday, President Bush was asked whether the military prison and harsh interrogation tactics have damaged America's standing in the world.

"I strongly disagree with the assessment that our moral standing has been damaged," Bush said. "It may be damaged amongst some of the elite. But people still understand America stands for freedom; that America is a country that provides such great hope."





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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9596182 -

It's a good start.  I truly he hopes he also repeals prohibition or at least makes SOME move to decrim/legalize marijuana in the United States.  FDR did it with alcohol, he should REALLY implement some change with marijuana laws.


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"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever."

-Mohandas Gandhi

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9596347 -

Madtowntripper said:
"Obama To Close Guantanamo First Week in Office"








:rofl2:



from your link Madtown:

"It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize," the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom may be very dangerous, who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication"

I think it’s going to take some time and our legal teams are working in consultation with our national security apparatus as we speak to help design exactly what we need to do,"


IMO it does not sound like he will be Closing Guantanamo in "the First Week of Office"....


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: lonestar2004]
    #9596353 -

Should likely say "To Announce Closing", you're right.

But...

Quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President-elect Barack Obama plans to close the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay as early as his first week in office to show a break from the Bush administration's approach to the war on terror, according to two officials close to the transition.




--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #9597349 -

> Great move and an absolute no-brainer.

So what happens to all of the prisoners?  Is he going to execute them?  Set them free?  Make them US citizens, perhaps?  This should be fun to watch... and based upon the logistics involved, it is something I find hard to believe possible to do within a few weeks time period.

Change... yeah right... I will believe it when I see it.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Seuss]
    #9597368 -

Move them to the US and put them on trial.

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Redstorm]
    #9597395 -

Redstorm said:
Move them to the US and put them on trial.



well what the hell is the point in closing Guantanamo then

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9597436 -

> Move them to the US and put them on trial.

Are they US citizens?  Did the commit crimes on US soil?  Are you claiming that the US now has the authority to go into other countries, arrest their citizens, bring them back to the US, and prosecute them as criminals?  This should sit well with the world...

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9597448 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Redstorm said:
Move them to the US and put them on trial.



well what the hell is the point in closing Guantanamo then




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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Seuss]
    #9597451 -

I figure if the boat happened to sink on it's trip back to
Afghanistan then it's just another maritime accident

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Seuss]
    #9597468 -

Of course they're not US citizens.

If they are not legal military forces, they are criminals and should be prosecuted either here, or preferably Iraq if they have the capability. I doubt their capabilities, so they should be prosecuted in the US unless show that Iraq can handle it.

Since when does the US worry about the world thinks? Regardless, it's a better situation to actually bring forth the crimes they supposedly committed rather than them just rot in jail without any proof of crime.

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9597470 -

I hear alien abductions are up this time of year... whole... cities have been known to disappear.  Who knows... maybe our friends in Egypt or Saudi Arabia will take them... I hear the justice system over there is really friendly compared to the torture done within the US system.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9597486 -

Prisoner#1 said:
I figure if the boat happened to sink on it's trip back to
Afghanistan then it's just another maritime accident



Wishing death on those who have not been shown guilty in a court is disgusting.

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Redstorm]
    #9597494 -

> If they are not legal military forces, they are criminals and should be prosecuted either here, or preferably Iraq if they have the capability.

What crime did they commit?  Was it a US crime?  An Iraqi crime?  Why should they be given trials in US (or Iraqi) courts if their "crime" was committed in a third country?  What was the crime again?


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Seuss]
    #9597520 -

Seuss said:
I hear alien abductions are up this time of year... whole... cities have been known to disappear.  Who knows... maybe our friends in Egypt or Saudi Arabia will take them... I hear the justice system over there is really friendly compared to the torture done within the US system.




For real?  America has it's fair share of civil rights violations, but I dunno about Guantanamo vs Middle Eastern prison system.  I'm all for Gitmo closing, but I'm not sure what to do with the inmates.  The whole situation is quite a pickle.


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"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever."

-Mohandas Gandhi

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Seuss]
    #9597521 -

If they are civilian forces, they would be tried for murder or whatever crime they committed involving explosives, kidnapping, or anything else. Obviously they would not all be charged with "terrorism". That's just stupid.

If the crimes were committed in a third country, they should be prosecuted in the third country if it has the capacity to bring forth charges. If not, they should be tried in the US since most of these attacks are against US citizens (armed forces).

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Redstorm]
    #9597696 -

Redstorm said:
Prisoner#1 said:
I figure if the boat happened to sink on it's trip back to
Afghanistan then it's just another maritime accident



Wishing death on those who have not been shown guilty in a court is disgusting.



what about inflicting death upon those that havent been shown to be guilty through due process?'

I'm just thinking about options that could save a few dollars

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Seuss]
    #9597706 -

Seuss said:
> If they are not legal military forces, they are criminals and should be prosecuted either here, or preferably Iraq if they have the capability.

What crime did they commit?  Was it a US crime?  An Iraqi crime?  Why should they be given trials in US (or Iraqi) courts if their "crime" was committed in a third country?  What was the crime again?




is fighting a war a crime? if so why havent we been prosecuting
the other criminals as opposed to paying them

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #9597846 -

Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:is fighting a war a crime? if so why havent we been prosecuting
the other criminals as opposed to paying them



Thats what I'm wondering...If they are prisoners of war them what crime have they committed?
I thought once the war is over they are suppose to be released.


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Spawn Ratio Calculator
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I only grow edibles.Any info I give ONLY applies to gourmet mushrooms.

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Re: Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office [Re: nw_shroomy]
    #9597932 -

I'd really hate to be an innocent man stuck there, but at least they get free health care.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

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