Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 |  [ show all ]
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: buckwheat]
    #9149519 -

buckwheat said:
The impression i got from you post is you support Obamas wealth redistribution



I support a tax cut for the middle class.

Did you support Bush's tax cut for the upper class? If so, I guess you are a communist. Glad you're on board comrade.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: gluke bastid]
    #9149690 -

gluke bastid said:
buckwheat said:
The impression i got from you post is you support Obamas wealth redistribution



I support a tax cut for the middle class.

Did you support Bush's tax cut for the upper class? If so, I guess you are a communist. Glad you're on board comrade.



There was no tax cut for the upper class.  There was a rate cut and an increase in revenue collected as well as a further disproportion of tax share paid by the upper class.  Middle class and loser class don't pay shit.  Comrade.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9150016 -

That's nonsensical to even pretend to argue that the middle class does not pay shit. Aren't you always bitching about your taxes?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: Redstorm]
    #9150161 -

I am in the top 1%.  The top 1% paid 40% of the income taxes and the top 5% paid 60% of the taxes (2006).  These numbers have been steadily rising.  The middle class doesn't pay shit and 40% don't pay anything at all.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9150179 -

zappaisgod said:
Middle class and loser class don't pay shit.  Comrade.



that settles it, I'm dodging my taxes and getting on welfare

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: gluke bastid]
    #9150211 -

gluke bastid said:
buckwheat said:
The impression i got from you post is you support Obamas wealth redistribution



I support a tax cut for the middle class.

Did you support Bush's tax cut for the upper class? If so, I guess you are a communist. Glad you're on board comrade.



I would support both tax cuts.:shrug:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: buckwheat]
    #9150919 -

question did anyone hear biden say wealthy line is now 150k? I just like to point that little slip up out. i know i would get confused with 250k and 150k too when talking about my tax plan. :uhoh: So where is their wealthy line going to stop? i say 50k.


--------------------

"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assalent, "If I live I will kill you, if I die you are forgiven". Such is the Rule of Honor."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: deadmeat986]
    #9150943 -

it'll stop when he hits the people collecting welfare, that would just be indian giving

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: deadmeat986]
    #9150944 -

Looks like at around $600k per family if they stick to the plan they have implemented. The only thing I really see changed is that he is taking away to bush tax cuts that McCain "was" against.



--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9151004 -

obamas tax plan he says will be anyone making over 200k or family 250k. biden said today 150k??? drop 100k???? ummmm ok so how many small biz will get hit at 150k if they "just" stop there? their not even in office yet and they have drop the wealthy line.


--------------------

"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assalent, "If I live I will kill you, if I die you are forgiven". Such is the Rule of Honor."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: deadmeat986]
    #9151047 -

Maybe it was a misquote of numbers, I haven't seen anything showing the tax plan has changed. Have you?

Obama also said he went to 57 so far. :ohwell:

Are you perfect enough that you don't slip up?


--------------------
Muppet Said:

so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!

www.panicstream.com :thumbup:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9151118 -

i don t know when i play poker i know diffrence between 100k and 250k chip beat. but could be a slip up?lol no biden said 150k will pay more.
"tax break should go to people making under 150k a year" joe biden 10/2008

here


--------------------

"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assalent, "If I live I will kill you, if I die you are forgiven". Such is the Rule of Honor."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: pinkfloydms]
    #9152404 -

pinkfloydms said:
Looks like at around $600k per family if they stick to the plan they have implemented. The only thing I really see changed is that he is taking away to bush tax cuts that McCain "was" against.





Looks like Obama's plan will give the biggest tax cuts to 60% of the population without changing the income tax revenue (-0.3% change). That seems far better than McCain's idea of giving the biggest cut to the richest 0.1% of the population (WTF??)


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9153255 -

zappaisgod said:
There was no tax cut for the upper class.  There was a rate cut and an increase in revenue collected as well as a further disproportion of tax share paid by the upper class.  Middle class and loser class don't pay shit.  Comrade.



I pay plenty in taxes. Nice to know that I'm a loser because I don't make as much money as you...clearly you have joe the plumber's interest in mind, instead of just protecting your own cash pile so you can buy more shitty Zappa reissues :thumbup:

Anyway none of this has anything to do with the hyperbolic argument that Obama's tax platform make him a Marxist.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: fireworks_god]
    #9154021 -

fireworks_god writes:

Quote:
I see no discerning (sic) difference between the two parties when it comes to "enslaving the population".



You also see no contradiction in instantly switching allegiance from Ron Paul to the candidate whose political philosophy is the most diametrically opposed to Ron Paul's. So I hope you will excuse the audience for not holding your "discernment" in particularly high esteem.

Quote:
The current Republican administration has exhausted our military strength...



Bullshit. Quite the reverse.

Quote:
... and increased the country's debt quite a lot.



Sadly, it is true that the debt increases with every succeeding presidency. It has been a very VERY long time since a president left the White House with the national debt less than it was when he entered.

Quote:
No taxes, just printing of money and borrowing.



The problem wasn't the lack of revenues -- government revenues increased with the tax cuts of 2001, and skyrocketed with the tax cuts of 2003. The problem was Bush's insane reluctance to use the veto pen for the first six and half years or so of his presidency.

Quote:
The point is that people aren't going to be voting Republican because they see themselves as being fucked over by the Republicans...



Exactly. People don't think. Leaving aside the fact that the current financial crisis is the creation of Congress, not the Executive branch, and of Democrats, not Republicans, there is the well-known tendency of people to reach illogical conclusions - "Bad things happened when a Republican was in the White House, therefore good things will happen when a Democrat is in the White House".

The reality is that the choice is not always between being "fucked over" and not being "fucked over", the choice is more often between being a little bit "fucked over"  for a short time or seriously "fucked over"  for a long time.

Quote:
It figures because its the nature of reality - we wouldn't need to be so concerned with the possibility of one-party rule if the last party that had a stint of one-party rule themselves didn't blow it.



How do you say the "one-party" rule has "blown it"? Remember who has been in control of Congress for the last two years. And in no way shape or form can anyone honestly claim the Supreme Court is a hotbed of Republicanism.

Quote:
Obviously you weren't rallying against a Republican majority back in the day, considering your first statement that you want Republicans in all offices for ideological reasons, so hopefully you will see the utter nonsense of crying against the dangers of one-party rule.



This is of course thoughtless nonsense. Your argument presumes all parties are of equal worth when clearly they are not. If one party mostly wants to leave people alone and keep government out of the affairs of its constituents, and the other party wants to engage in social engineering and expand government's reach into all areas of its constituents lives, why one earth would anyone advocate a balance between the two parties?

Quote:
I think what is escaping your point of view on the matter as you've presented it thusfar is the realization that the country already tried out your ideal of Republicans in every office and it didn't work.



Define "didn't work". Everything was humming along rather nicely until the Dems decided home ownership was a civil right and resisted all attempts by Republicans to reign in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Look, Sparky, there will never be a time when the skies are filled with rainbows and unicorn farts perfume the air with the scent of cotton candy. Again, life is never a process of choosing between good and bad. It is often a process of choosing between fair and bad. Or between bad and horrendous. Of all possible times to turn total control of the country over to Democrats, a financial slump is the worst. See the Great Depression.

Quote:
The point is that there are different factions that are going to be vying for control.



LOL! I'm supposed to be reassured that the contest is between Lefties and Uber-Lefties?

Quote:
Ahh, yes, "everything will go to hell in a hand-basket".



Explain to the audience how the electorate can undo the appointment of a Supreme Court judgeship. Or for that matter, a federal courts appellate judgeship? Obama has made no secret of his philosophy on judicial appointments. He's proud of it!

Explain to the audience how the electorate can undo any of the new government entitlement programs the Dems will enact, let alone any new government departments they'll create. Even Ronald Reagan was unable to eliminate the Department of Education, and he tried mightily. How will you like being looked over by Obama's proposed national police force? Are you finally past the age when you can be drafted into "community service"? What about the military draft? Remember the military draft has always been a Democrat darling, and many Dems - Obama included - have mused repeatedly about how unfair it is that only the "desperate" choose to enlist in today's military: time the "well-off" should be made to "do their share" in the interest of "fairness".

How about your workplace? Is a union trying to force its way in there at the moment? How will you feel about no longer being able to vote secretly against unionization? Will you be comfortable with the union's bully boys knowing you voted against them?

These are just some of a long, LONG list of things that - once done - are incredibly difficult and often impossible to undo. And they are things that the vast majority of Dems want to do, are promising to do, are champing at the bit to do. You may think "moderate" Dems will oppose these measures. That may be, it may not be. But I guarantee you Obama won't oppose them.





Phred


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: Phred]
    #9154630 -

Quote:
Sadly, it is true that the debt increases with every succeeding presidency. It has been a very VERY long time since a president left the White House with the national debt less than it was when he entered.



8 years is a long time? When Clinton took office the debt was 66.2% of GDP, and when he left it was 57.4%. At the end of Dubya's second term the debt will be around 68.2%
Source

However in absolute terms the debt hasn't gone down since WW2.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: zouden]
    #9155115 -

Cute little drawing.  I like how they said the bottom 3 groups are 60% of Americans.  But the nasty bit about that 60% is that they pay dick in taxes, something on the order of <5% of all income tax paid.  A whole pile of those people don't pay any income tax at all.  This all goes back to that great quote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1046973/posts

Quote:
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."



That is what the 60% have done and will do more of.  Great, just great.  A once proud nation dragged down by panhandlers with a ballot.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: zappaisgod]
    #9155201 -

>I like how they said the bottom 3 groups are 60% of Americans.  But the nasty bit about that 60% is that they pay dick in taxes

But they still pay taxes, and tax cuts do benefit them (since it's relative to their income). So Obama's tax cuts will benefit more people than McCain's.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: Phred]
    #9155394 -

Phred said:
You also see no contradiction in instantly switching allegiance from Ron Paul to the candidate whose political philosophy is the most diametrically opposed to Ron Paul's. So I hope you will excuse the audience for not holding your "discernment" in particularly high esteem.



First off, its very presumptuous for you to speak for people other than yourself as it calls into question your own "discernment". Second off, it is also presumptuous for you to speak of my "contradiction" when you are not me and you clearly are presenting a convoluted viewpoint on the matter. I never "instantly switched allegiance" from Ron Paul. Ron Paul no longer was a candidate, and your reference to the most diametrically opposed political policy of Obama as compared to Ron Paul is completely exaggerated. First, the degree of separation in that regard between Obama and McCain is very limited, as he is much closer to Obama on the political scale than he is to Ron Paul. Neither of the remaining. Secondly, the decision between the two is based upon the personal nature of the candidates themselves - McCain is not fit for or suitable to be President of the United States. As you've posted before, its either one or the other, that it is a binary choice.
My choice was limited in those respects. When I clarified this matter to you before, you seemed to understand what I was saying, based upon your subsequent response at the time.

Obviously, you're simply being disingenuous in an attempt to discredit my perspective on this matter.

Quote:
The reality is that the choice is not always between being "fucked over" and not being "fucked over", the choice is more often between being a little bit "fucked over"  for a short time or seriously "fucked over"  for a long time.



This is a question of opinion, really. You obviously don't have the same view as most seem to have regarding this specific issue, regarding the direction for the country to be taken in, as has been evidenced in this very thread. Clearly, the potential is there for either choice or either ideology to work or not work, depending on the nature of the environment in which the ideology is implemented.

Different solutions for different times, you know?

For instance, let's stick with the present state of the country. The entire planet is struggling to prevent a global financial collapse. At the same time, the federal government has reached beyond its means in seeking to assert itself as the superpower of the world through securing American hegemony and dominant presence, and it is facing the point at which it can't continue to print and borrow money. Obviously, in order to prevent collapse of the financial markets, or, at least, the economy itself, someone is going to have to pay. Clearly, you cannot allow the middle-class to collapse, or the system goes down with them.

Now, obviously, that is a serious time, and there are two ideas on which direction to take in order to successfully navigate the potential catastrophe. Unfortunately for the right, they blew their chances in being too electable, so they are most likely not going to maintain enough representatives to produce enough influence to support their ideology going forward.

At the same time, I don't see anything that suggests that the Republican answer is the only solution that will work.

Quote:
How do you say the "one-party" rule has "blown it"? Remember who has been in control of Congress for the last two years. And in no way shape or form can anyone honestly claim the Supreme Court is a hotbed of Republicanism.



I do remember who was in control of Congress for the last two years - the Republicans. The Democrats did not have enough of a majority in the Senate to carry out their own agenda, let alone support from the Bush administration if they were able to pass it, so it isn't accurate to suggest that they are the one's who led the show.

I would think that the Supreme Court has been pretty moderate, in that sometimes they make conservative decisions and sometimes more liberal ones, depending on the situation. I think that it has a balance of power right now, so trying to blame them for the problems is probably misguided.

Quote:
This is of course thoughtless nonsense. Your argument presumes all parties are of equal worth when clearly they are not. If one party mostly wants to leave people alone and keep government out of the affairs of its constituents, and the other party wants to engage in social engineering and expand government's reach into all areas of its constituents lives, why one earth would anyone advocate a balance between the two parties?



Because history has demonstrated quite well the inherent problems that result from one extremity being expressed - the system starts to collapse. This is why there is a center of compromise, and this is why the pendulum ebbs and flows from left to right. The real question is if the direction being taken is going up or down, if it has intentions for liberty or for oppression. The extreme of the Left and the extreme of the Right could both work for oppression, although neither side necessarily would take a direction for oppression.

That's the real question, and, not surprisingly, the result from the Republican party enjoying one-party rule for the last eight years (plus four years of counterpoint to Clinton) has been a swing down into oppression.

Quote:
Define "didn't work". Everything was humming along rather nicely until the Dems decided home ownership was a civil right and resisted all attempts by Republicans to reign in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.



As I've already mentioned, different solutions for different times. Obviously, both sides can be responsible for negative results from their governance. For example, the Republicans have recently taken actions, changed laws, and simply broken the laws they couldn't change that trampled all over civil rights. Both parties are guilty of having wrong conceptions of what civil rights are.

Once again, we see how the only reason Democrats are faced with the prospects of one-party rule is because the last party who enjoyed one-party rule completely blew it when they seized the opportunity to carry the center of power too far to the right. Clearly, a swing back to the left to counter that movement to the right is necessary.

Quote:
Look, Sparky, there will never be a time when the skies are filled with rainbows and unicorn farts perfume the air with the scent of cotton candy. Again, life is never a process of choosing between good and bad. It is often a process of choosing between fair and bad. Or between bad and horrendous.



What are you talking about? Hopefully you did not presume that I was under such an assumption. I'm confused why you would mention this. :wtf:

Quote:
Of all possible times to turn total control of the country over to Democrats, a financial slump is the worst. See the Great Depression.



Hhm.... the Great Depression... Do you mean Calvin Coolidge and, of course, Herbert Hoover? :strokebeard2:

Quote:
Explain to the audience how the electorate can undo the appointment of a Supreme Court judgeship. Or for that matter, a federal courts appellate judgeship? Obama has made no secret of his philosophy on judicial appointments. He's proud of it!

Explain to the audience how the electorate can undo any of the new government entitlement programs the Dems will enact, let alone any new government departments they'll create. Even Ronald Reagan was unable to eliminate the Department of Education, and he tried mightily. How will you like being looked over by Obama's proposed national police force? Are you finally past the age when you can be drafted into "community service"? What about the military draft? Remember the military draft has always been a Democrat darling, and many Dems - Obama included - have mused repeatedly about how unfair it is that only the "desperate" choose to enlist in today's military: time the "well-off" should be made to "do their share" in the interest of "fairness".

How about your workplace? Is a union trying to force its way in there at the moment? How will you feel about no longer being able to vote secretly against unionization? Will you be comfortable with the union's bully boys knowing you voted against them?

These are just some of a long, LONG list of things that - once done - are incredibly difficult and often impossible to undo. And they are things that the vast majority of Dems want to do, are promising to do, are champing at the bit to do. You may think "moderate" Dems will oppose these measures. That may be, it may not be. But I guarantee you Obama won't oppose them.



Well, some of those things certainly seem like real concerns, even though other aspects of the direction they would take will certainly have success in alleviating the concerns the country is in today. Unfortunately, the Republican party decided to completely reject the grass-roots movement that produced a lot of support (and cash $$$) for Ron Paul because they were unwilling to concede their mistakes and embrace their core roots. If they had done so, perhaps they wouldn't have given the edge to Obama, and then perhaps they could have implemented their own idea of how to lead the nation.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Obama the Marxian [Re: zouden]
    #9155539 -

zouden said:
But they still pay taxes, and tax cuts do benefit them (since it's relative to their income). So Obama's tax cuts will benefit more people than McCain's.



that makes no sense since McCain is for cutting taxes on
everyone and Obama is only cutting taxes for those that
already pay the least

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Congressman Warns of Obama Dictatorship
( 1 2 3 all )
mushroomhunter10 2,823 58 11/12/08 02:17 PM
by xFrockx
* marxism.
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 3,111 37 02/04/04 07:53 PM
by Tao
* Pope assails marxism, capitalism it stars saddam 444 0 05/13/07 11:11 PM
by it stars saddam
* Obama To Rural Pennsylvanians: Vote For Me, You Corncob-Smokin', Banjo-Strokin' Chicken-Chokin' ...
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Phred 16,845 144 04/16/08 01:35 PM
by Icelander
* Obama caused the loss of 10 trillion dollars
( 1 2 all )
Luddite 2,594 23 11/10/08 07:59 PM
by mr.bixby
* Obama To Close Guantanmo First Week in Office
( 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 )
Madtowntripper 13,463 259 12/27/10 11:47 AM
by Icelander
* Obama's National Security Force Phred 1,008 10 11/04/08 12:33 AM
by Prisoner#1
* Obama's Pinstripe Revolution
( 1 2 3 all )
lonestar2004 4,610 43 05/09/09 12:51 PM
by Falcon91Wolvrn03

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
8,817 topic views. 3 members, 8 guests and 29 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 16 queries.