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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9101655 -

MOTH said:
Any thoughts on that? 

Whenever you make mistakes that seem...ASTRONOMICAL...and you take yourself too seriously...and need to lighten up.  Forgiveness for self seems to be the KEY to moving past your own mistakes - but you're very hesitant that you deserve it? 

In fact there is an insidious little voice telling you that you don't deserve forgiveness - that you're a fuck up who needs to BURN IN HELL

Grace is required, aye?  Where does grace come from?


I think grace comes from allowing the judgment to exist. Doing anything else is another subtle form of judgment that says "... and there's nothing I can do about it." It is not the judgment as a statement of fact, that you are facing (though it may seem that way), but the fear of judgment that is being faced. It all comes down to fear, and it takes love, despite the fear, to fix things. Simply allowing the judgment to exist IS the source of grace. It may take more than one "session", but it will happen, and the heart of the matter will become apparent. You will notice a tipping of the scales at some point, and resolution will begin to flow in. The fear will wither.

Some have called this process a dark night of the soul.

I think these types of fuck ups are necessary if the goal is to become a better person. When you're done, thank yourself for fucking up, and having the courage to face it. You will gain some humility and the lesson will be locked in so you don't have to repeat it. You get to move on to the next fuck up.:D


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: zannennagara]
    #9102974 -

kindness and understanding are the whole trick
except when you encounter BMW's (beemers)
at that point the universe has become warped by assholes.
there is nothing you can do.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9103103 -

Moth I have read enough of your posts to hazard a guess that you don't consider yourself a perfect individual.  So if you don't think you are perfect why expect perfection from yourself?

That being said this is something it took me years to accomplish.  I have made some major bloopers in my life (mainly in the area of personal relationships) and would get onto myself for, if not the original decision then for not recognizing sooner that I had made a mistake.  I've lost years staying in bad relationships.  Some abusive even.

But if we keep kicking ourselves for these mistakes we are wasting valuable time and energy on something that can't be changed.  Try instead to apply that same energy to possibilities ahead instead of choices that are behind you.

And allow yourself to fuck up every once in awhile.  Consider them learning experiences.  :heart:


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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: mushbaby]
    #9103161 -

I have in my life, made numerous mistakes of astronomical proportion, imo. And for years, I'd give myself absolute hell over them. Within the last year or so, it has occured to me that these mistakes were actually something to be grateful for. I look back at the person I was before I started fucking up, and I was a stuck-up snobby little bitch who thought her shit smelled like roses. Through the years, the more mistakes I made, the closer I got to my "ideal self". I'm still not there, I'm sure there are some doozies ahead that will will teach me even more about myself, and life in general.

Alanis Morisette wrote a song about it called "You Learn" and she hit the nail on the head with that one.

IMO, the only true mistake in life, is not learning when you fuck up, continuing the ignorance, and repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results"
~ I forget (but they were smart)


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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9103272 -

MOTH said:
Any thoughts on that? 

Whenever you make mistakes that seem...ASTRONOMICAL...and you take yourself too seriously...and need to lighten up.  Forgiveness for self seems to be the KEY to moving past your own mistakes - but you're very hesitant that you deserve it? 

In fact there is an insidious little voice telling you that you don't deserve forgiveness - that you're a fuck up who needs to BURN IN HELL

Grace is required, aye?  Where does grace come from?


Right on Moth. I would use the word acceptance rather than forgiveness. Forgiveness implies wrongdoing. Being human is acting in skillful and unskillful ways and acceptance is the acknowledgement of this fact.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9103357 -

MOTH said:
Any thoughts on that? 

Whenever you make mistakes that seem...ASTRONOMICAL...and you take yourself too seriously...and need to lighten up.  Forgiveness for self seems to be the KEY to moving past your own mistakes - but you're very hesitant that you deserve it? 

In fact there is an insidious little voice telling you that you don't deserve forgiveness - that you're a fuck up who needs to BURN IN HELL

Grace is required, aye?  Where does grace come from?



I would say take a step beyond forgiving yourself & see if you were to blame in the first place!

Its merely animal nature, are we to blame for our actions if they are animal conditioning playing out?

So in this way we can't even forgive ourselves because we weren't guilty in the first place! You can say that seeing your not guilty is also forgiveness, but whose forgiving who? Is there two of you? One person forgiving the other!?

Forgiveness imo is seeing past personal boundaries, seeing that at the end of the day we are all just here living life, nobodys really to blame

:peace:


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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH] * 1
    #9103599 -

My regrets always seem to come around when I wake up.  So I forgive myself for everything I've ever done, every day before I leave the house.  When people do things that make me mad, I forgive them right then, as a rule.  No sense holding grudges against anybody, especially myself.  There is nothing I could do that I could not forgive myself for.

And maybe acceptance is a better word.  Forgiveness, if it is real, is only acceptance.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #9103611 -

WhiskeyClone said:
My regrets always seem to come around when I wake up.  So I forgive myself for everything I've ever done, every day before I leave the house.  When people do things that make me mad, I forgive them right then, as a rule.  No sense holding grudges against anybody, especially myself.  There is nothing I could do that I could not forgive myself for.

And maybe acceptance is a better word.  Forgiveness, if it is real, is only acceptance.


I like to look at the root structure of forgiveness to find it's real meaning. It is "giveness" with a mode of precession... ie, it is the giving that is always there, even before you feel a need for it.

In this context, I consider forgiveness to be very close to synonymous with grace.

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9103910 -

Yes, it' about errors or hurting somebody or oneself and (maybe) not doing that again.
If one hurt somebody else, it would be not so wise to forgive oneself before not been forgiven by the other. Because this could hinder the communication process of making understanding, which is required for real forgiveness. To communicate the reasons why one felt the urge to do something and why the other 'felt' hurt.
If one 'only' did hurt oneself, then by the understanding of not doing this again one gets the key for forgiveness to be obsolete, because by this, one automatically forgives oneself hehe.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #9104099 -

I really liked reading the responses and found it helpful...thank you everyone.  :heart:

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9104383 -

MOTH said:
In fact there is an insidious little voice telling you that you don't deserve forgiveness - that you're a fuck up who needs to BURN IN HELL


That insidious little voice has actually improved my life dramatically.

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #9104389 -

How?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: Icelander]
    #9104446 -

It forced me to eventually deal with my mistakes instead of trying to rationalize them into non-existence with New Age feel-good gibberish. I made some terrible academic mistakes which kept my mood at a level far under content until I stopped reassuring myself that "I can do no wrong - I should have no regrets" and acknowledged my own stupidity. Initially, correcting my own stupid mistakes was more painful than refusing to acknowledge them and years later I am still struggling with it, but it seems like it will work out for the best in the long run. I'd rather actively struggle than passively soothe myself with rationalizations - at least struggling might improve my situation, forgiving myself wouldn't have really changed anything.

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #9104467 -

Seems like a negative way to go about correction of unskillful behavior but if it works for you then good.

I think I understand you however. To my way of thinking forgiveness is never needed. Forgiveness just is an attempt to get oneself off the hook so to speak.  Full acceptance of unhealthy and unskillful action and taking full personal responsibility for that action is all that is needed and I kind of think that is what you are doing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9104472 -

redgreenvines said:
kindness and understanding are the whole trick
except when you encounter BMW's (beemers)
at that point the universe has become warped by assholes.
there is nothing you can do.


I don't know, maybe if I saw him again I'd offer to wash his car to try to warp him back.

His life would be transformed, and he would come to look on bad drivers and ignorant bicyclists with a newfound cosmic joy - these close calls become profound brushes with mortality in more senses than one, as the brushed living mortals would be people worth meeting - and let all of these slights slide over him with a smile of contentment rather than contempt, because the cleanliness of his driving machine depended on one such slight.

That if he doesn't say, "Get the hell away from me and my car, I have no idea who you are."


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No debe haber separación, no puede haber definición.

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: Icelander]
    #9104474 -

Icelander said:
Full acceptance of unhealthy and unskillful action and taking full personal responsibility for that action is all that is needed


Nuff said :thumbup:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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