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Forgiving yourself for fucking up
    #9100368 -

Any thoughts on that? 

Whenever you make mistakes that seem...ASTRONOMICAL...and you take yourself too seriously...and need to lighten up.  Forgiveness for self seems to be the KEY to moving past your own mistakes - but you're very hesitant that you deserve it? 

In fact there is an insidious little voice telling you that you don't deserve forgiveness - that you're a fuck up who needs to BURN IN HELL

Grace is required, aye?  Where does grace come from?

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9100388 -

If there is any sort of judgement after death, I am sure it will come from myself, not a God.  The same applies to forgiveness and grace.

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9100393 -

The whole concept of self-forgiveness seems to imply that you've done something wrong in the first place.  This is mistaken.

never regret anything you've done
because at one point, it was exactly what you wanted


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9100619 -

Welcome back.

As for your post... all I can think is:

Christianity can influence a person's thoughts for a long time after they leave the church.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: Rose]
    #9100668 -

What...are you guys trying to tell me...

THAT SHAME ISN'T NECESSARY?!  :shocked:

*strokes beard*

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9100683 -

It is like your appendix... it can help you, but you don't really need it... and if it causes you problems, you are better off without it.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9100687 -

MOTH said:
What...are you guys trying to tell me...

THAT SHAME ISN'T NECESSARY?!  :shocked:

*strokes beard*


As I believe I might have mentioned last night, not only is it "not necessary" but shame, guilt, and fear are all the ego's "excuses" to avoid entering into the moment.

In this context, shame is not just unnecessary, it's downright detrimental to your goals.

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9100694 -

Sincerity is important.  Mistakes are o.k. if you learn from each mistake and do not repeat same mistake.  That is why "sin" is Greek for "missing the mark".  When you don't hit bull's eye it just means that you need to adjust your aim.

Yes, if you beat yourself up about something you are likely to repeat the same mistake.

This being said, there is not enough time to efficiently learn from only your own mistakes.  That is why often people learn much more from fools rather from sages.  Knowing what not to do makes the learning process much more efficient and enjoyable.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #9100719 -

JacquesCousteau said:
MOTH said:
What...are you guys trying to tell me...

THAT SHAME ISN'T NECESSARY?!  :shocked:

*strokes beard*


As I believe I might have mentioned last night, not only is it "not necessary" but shame, guilt, and fear are all the ego's "excuses" to avoid entering into the moment.

In this context, shame is not just unnecessary, it's downright detrimental to your goals.


Yes, I think I remember you saying something like that in between my hysterical outbursts.  :tongue: :smirk: :heart:

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: Rose]
    #9100755 -

Cervantes said:
It is like your appendix... it can help you, but you don't really need it... and if it causes you problems, you are better off without it.


I guess shame really does seem useless to me in that light.

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9100779 -

(another way of punishing/being unloving towards myself)

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9100809 -

MOTH said:
In fact there is an insidious little voice telling you that you don't deserve forgiveness - that you're a fuck up who needs to BURN IN HELL



I don't have a little voice like that. :shrug:


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: blewmeanie]
    #9100823 -

blewmeanie said:
MOTH said:
In fact there is an insidious little voice telling you that you don't deserve forgiveness - that you're a fuck up who needs to BURN IN HELL



I don't have a little voice like that. :shrug:


:lol:

Oh...I thought everyone had a thousand voices in their head at all times.  :smirk:

Some of them are nicer then others.

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9100854 -

maybe you can try and attempt to escape the entire cycle to a higher place, free from the human condition  :peace:

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: sprokus]
    #9101094 -

wait a minute
the kindness and understanding that you show yourself after fucking up don't need to be any different than the kindness and understanding that you show another person or yourself at any other time.

if you need to call it grace or dignity or forgiveness or anything else, that is fine as long as it is the same basic thing.

I find it good to steer clear of the term forgiveness, since it really is couched in confusion and strange habits.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9101179 -

redgreenvines said:
wait a minute
the kindness and understanding that you show yourself after fucking up don't need to be any different than the kindness and understanding that you show another person or yourself at any other time.

if you need to call it grace or dignity or forgiveness or anything else, that is fine as long as it is the same basic thing.

I find it good to steer clear of the term forgiveness, since it really is couched in confusion and strange habits.


You  might be right = I think that is some of my old Christian indoctrination coming out...

Who says I need to be forgiven at all, hm?  That would imply I'm judging myself = I don't want to judge anyone so I don't want to judge myself.

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: redgreenvines]
    #9101298 -

It looks like "forgive" originally meant to free from payment of a debt, which relates to the German word for guilt originally meaning (monetary) debt - Nietzsche mentions the latter in Genealogy of Morals:

"Let me pose the question once more: to what extent can suffering be a compensation for “debts”? To the extent that making someone suffer provides the highest degree of pleasure, to the extent that the person hurt by the debt, in exchange for the injury as well as for the distress caused by the injury, got an extraordinary offsetting pleasure: creating suffering — a real celebration, something that, as I’ve said, was valued all the more, the greater it contradicted the rank and social position of the creditor. "

To feel guilty about (and forgive) oneself in this sense would seem all the more self-defeating and ridiculous, a cycle of taking pleasure in creating one's own suffering.

So why do I do it? Today I was riding my bike towards town and entered a tunnel with a sign reading "Bicycles not advised" - seeing a decent space on the right side of the road, I scoffed at the advisory and went in.

Then I emerge from the tunnel to find my lane merging with two lanes on the right to form - oh damn - a high-speed highway, and I am in the middle of this point of convergence and need to get to the right ASAP.

I glance quickly back to my right to see cars rushing from each of the two lanes, and I can see they're going pretty fast and they're pretty close, especially a black BMW in the far lane, but damn I've got to get over so I pedal out there.

I make it to the right side without any honks, but the guy should have definitely passed me by now and he hasn't. I look back again and he's driving at a crawl, and he maintains the speed long enough to draw even with me and give me a long stare.

Of course, right then the guilt hits - Damn, I'm an idiot, an idiot, unsafe, an idiot, how could I have done that. I do this a lot, and like to think of it as a form of empathy, but realistically this guy isn't going to be pissed for too long; still I imagine him bitching about the incident to his wife later tonight, talking about this idiot on a bike, and I'm the idiot he'll be talking about. Not much I can do about it now, though - you usually don't see those people again.


--------------------
No debe haber separación, no puede haber definición.

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: MOTH]
    #9101374 -

as a catholic, I find the sacramental absolution of my sins to be a very freeing and uplifting experience.  I try to go to confession at least a few times a year.

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: mofo]
    #9101381 -

If you'd just let go of all that "sin" nonsense, absolution wouldn't be necessary.


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: Forgiving yourself for fucking up [Re: mofo]
    #9101382 -

Doesn't the freeing feeling come from within?
I don't think you need the catholic ritual to do this.  To each his own, though..

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