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the anti-ministry
    #8523758 -

so, having just spent a few days in the jungle.. it was my first time really exposed to areas that are filled with middle class, mostly american, mostly white, christian ministers in foreign lands... and it seriously irritated me.. to the point of verbally accosting one man at the airport, he wasn't even going where i was going.  But, he butted to the front of the boarding line, cutting off at least 2 women with babies.. and then approaching an Indian(from india) family with a young boy talking about, "i'm a minister, I'm going to come to your country and teach everyone to love jesus."  I wanted to physically beat him while screaming "jesus only loves you!" or something rediculous.. hours of travel will do that, though.

So.. here's my question.. does anyone combat the brainwashing of native cultures by stupid christians? 

Why can't they just leave these people be? they've obviously survived for thousands of years based on their own system of beliefs.. they don't need jesus.

Someone needs to start a NPO that sends people to these villages explaining that these stupid fucking people are there to ruin the native culture and way of life... that jesus won't come down and bring food to the jungle, that the jungle already has the food... that there is no magical pot of gold at the end of God's rainbow...  that they should embrace their history and chase jesus out of their villages... that they can meld into modern life in part, if they want to, but that a foreign belief is not necessary...

and, chase the ministers out of these places. 

It's fucking sick.

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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: Yoschie99]
    #8523788 -

As for religion, everybody should be free to believe what they choose to.

For that reason I have a strong dislike for missionaries.

They ruined so many cultures, justifying the evils of the rich and guilt-tripping the poor.

They walk up to people living in harmony with nature and tell them: "you are living in sin and will suffer greatly for all eternity unless you do like I tell you" knowing full well that people who never knew or needed money before soon will be abysmally poor homeless city dwellers, their forests destroyed behind their backs by good ole civilization they bring.

Missionaries --> loggers --> poverty

:minigun: Missionaries


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

Edited by Asante (06/14/08 04:47 PM)

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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: Yoschie99]
    #8523892 -

What really gets me is these missionaries preachings on birth control and condoms.

Take Africa for instance, overpopulation, famine, and AIDS are all huge problems.  The Christian missionaries' response?  Tell the people that if they use condoms they will burn in hell for all eternity.  Sweet.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, federal, or fashion police laws. All posts are works of fiction.

For well you know that its a fool who plays it cool
By making his world a little colder.

Under closer inspection I realised it was a funky ball of tits from outer space.


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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: circularvortex]
    #8523909 -

In all fairness, many of the people having large families in developing countries are not doing so because they are too stupid to use a condom.  They need large families, both to provide the labor necessary to survive in an agricultural economy as well to ensure that they have someone to take care of them in their elderly years.

Diversifying economies and encouraging private enterprise to allow people that so choose to move out of the agricultural sector and to allow for the creation of wealth seem to me to be much better solutions than just handing out condoms and hoping for the best.

It's not the understanding of the child-birth or disease cycle that is lacking, it is the lack of any kind of clear alternative to having large families to support oneself.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8523977 -

My brother does missionary work, and its not just teaching the people, they also help them do work, give them shots, help them get clean water, give them clothes and food.  You shouldn't use the straw man arguement in this instance, some people actually do want to help poor people.  Its not like most of these people in third world countries are worse off with missionaries coming to help them.  I personally don't help out homeless people that I see in front of me, so I really don't see myself exerting effort into helping someone 10,000 miles away from me that doesn't even speak my language.  But if other people want to help the poor, whatever.  If people want to spread their ideas, thats fine, if you disagree, well then spread your ideas.  I don't agree with christianity, but if their dumb enough to buy into it then they can believe whatever they want to.


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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: fapjack]
    #8524033 -

i'm not sure which group your brother works with, or how it works..  but in my understanding, many of the missionary groups only give out medicine, food and other aid to communities where at least a portion of the population has converted.. or will at least allow the building of a church, or the implementation of bible studies.. which is a crock of shit. 

everyone needs help.. not just "god's children" or however else they want to describe it. 

The fact of the matter is, missionaries promise a changed way of life with the acceptance of different values.. which is a bold-faced lie and not the kind of aid these communities need.  Sure, medicine, education food, and other necessities should be given to these communities.. the point is, it shouldn't be given with terms.. it should be given because it is the right thing to do. 

Education and health should not be bartered along with religion, ever, imo.. help people because you want to help them, not because you want to see them become like you.

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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: Yoschie99]
    #8524034 -

Yoschie99 said:
Why can't they just leave these people be? they've obviously survived for thousands of years based on their own system of beliefs.. they don't need jesus.


Being a missionary is the most arrogant thing ever.  Its like they're going into non-Christian cultures and saying "This is the truth and we know we're right.  And even though we have no idea what your belief system is, its wrong."

I expect we'll be seeing some intergalactic missionaries in the future.  The Pope's own astronomer has stated that the possibility for intelligent extraterrestrial life can't be ruled out.  He says they are also God's creatures and our "brothers in Christ". 

Can you imagine space missionaries?  Going from planet to planet spreading the news, trying to get the aliens to accept Christ as their savior.  It'd be great if Jesus was actually an alien and the missionaries ran into him on some planet. I bet Jesus would tell them to get a life.

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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: BoneMan]
    #8524049 -

So if religion and missionaries are the root of all evil, where are the non-denominational or secular groups out there providing services for these people?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8524100 -

red cross.. unicef.. several international teaching organizations.. doctors without borders...

there's certainly some that jesus doesn't run.

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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: Yoschie99]
    #8524187 -

Agreed, I'm not saying they are the only game in town.

But you can't say the Jesus-Freak Organizations (JFOs) are making them embrace Christianity and are responsible for destroying their culture if there are other games in town.  And if there aren't that many other groups doing this in practice, then that raises a bunch of other questions.

I'm not promoting any kind of religious belief or denigrate anyone who helps the poor in  any way.  Just asking questions.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8524298 -

the problem is, there are way more jesus freaks than volunteers and paid workers for the other groups... allowing them to reach out farther and wider...

i think we'd all be naive to say that part of the reason that the ministries try to reach out so far is to capitalize on potential money for the church down the road... how many churches do you know that don't ask for donations from their members at some point?  now, how many non-jesus based organizations, after helping the people, ask for them to give money back to them? 

I'm not saying that the voluntees themselves go out looking to make money from these people... they probably don't even think about it... i'm sure that the ministers all have the best intentions.. that they believe what they preach and assume it's for the best... problem there is that they've been so far brainwashed themselves that they don't even recognize what they're doing.  They really just see the preaching as preaching.. when it's mass exploitation of weakness in a people.. many whom have been so far beat down by the invasion of their lands that any positive they think they can gain from the outside world looks good.. especially when they don't know the whole story behind these groups..  and the lack of real change to most areas they go to, beyond basic necessities, which can be gained by simply putting one or two educated locals into the outside population to handle matters such as those... not by turning them into "god fearing, jesus loving" christians.

I don't know.. there's obviously no easy answer as to how to deal with integration of modern benefits to ancient cultures...

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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: Yoschie99]
    #8524487 -

Yoschie99 said:
i'm not sure which group your brother works with, or how it works..  but in my understanding, many of the missionary groups only give out medicine, food and other aid to communities where at least a portion of the population has converted.. or will at least allow the building of a church, or the implementation of bible studies.. which is a crock of shit.
everyone needs help.. not just "god's children" or however else they want to describe it. 

The fact of the matter is, missionaries promise a changed way of life with the acceptance of different values.. which is a bold-faced lie and not the kind of aid these communities need.  Sure, medicine, education food, and other necessities should be given to these communities.. the point is, it shouldn't be given with terms.. it should be given because it is the right thing to do. 

Education and health should not be bartered along with religion, ever, imo.. help people because you want to help them, not because you want to see them become like you.


I'll wait til I see my brother to reply, I really don't know much about what he does.  I'm pretty sure it isn't as black and white as you think it is.


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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #8524631 -

Missionaries use the benefits of western society as leverage to convert people.

Here in the First World it sounds stupid to say "Accept Jesus as your Savior and get a free iPod!" but in the Third World it often literally boils down to:

Go to our church and recieve iron tools to work your land.

Ir even more obscene:

Join our church or miss out on medicine/food aid.

Its completely unethical what they do, using material advantages as a leverage to convert people.

Help EVERYBODY, and tell those interested what you happen to believe in.

WWJD? Well, he went around healing and helping people and he didn't care one bit whether they became his followers. By his good example, he won people over not by using ploys like: "If you don't convert mrs Lazerus your hubbie stays put!"


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: Asante]
    #8524810 -

Not having any experience whatsoever with missionaries, I have a find hard time accepting that it is, in most cases, the way you say it is.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Re: the anti-ministry [Re: Asante]
    #8524971 -

My brother said that they usually goto areas with a low % of christians (you can't convert the converted), they help all the people in the area regardless of belief, and that they preach to those that want to hear what they have to say.  Its not as though they are forcing anything on to anyone, if you don't want to believe them you just ask them to leave and they will.  You people are making it sound as though these are bad people when in reality they are helping poor people, which seems to be doing a lot more than the majority of you or I are doing.  If people want to be modernized, let them, if they want to keep their culture they can tell the people to leave.  If it bothers any of you that much, you should probably join Unicef and change it, because as it is now the majority of aid work is done by those evil christian missionaries.


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