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InvisibleInnominate
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Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 2,136
A Discussion on Christianity.
    #6914336 - 05/14/07 01:35 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

To start off, most of the members here are quite intelligent. Being someone who enjoys playing Devil's Advocate and someone who likes to argue, I find myself challenged by this forum in terms of argument, in a good way. There's lots of intelligent ideas and opinions flowing around here at the Shroomery, more so than other message boards that I frequent. Most of you are older also, which is good.

One thing bothers me though, the idea of religion seems to bother most of you. Let me mention now that when I say "religion", for the sake of this topic, I'm really talking mostly about Christianity. Most of you view any religion as a cult following, something fundamentally "evil" in every non-religious definition of the word. Christians are automatically looked down upon here it seems. I'm not a religious man myself, but I am open to the idea of a Christian God, and I do pray.

Here's my stance-

Forget about what religion (namely Christianity) has done in the past. These days it's really about helping people. Hundreds of people are "saved" daily. People's lives are completely turned around and made better each day because of Christianity. Yet so many people chastise Christians simple because of their beliefs. Why chastise Christians? Why cut down a religion just because it isn't something you don't believe in? And don't give me that "Christians are assholes and all they do is judge people and push their religion onto others". True Christians are taught to not judge anyone, because that is God's job and God's alone. It says in the bible not to judge people, so the Christian's out there who hate on gays and such are NOT living like true Christians ought to. Many people will say this is the reason why they hate Christians, but that's like saying you hate all black people because a good majority of them have been known historically to commit crimes. While this may be true, generalizing is never an acceptable thing to do, and hopefully we all understand why. The Christians I know are loving people who really just try to help others. Christians should not look down upon Atheists or other religions and chastise them, but all sorts of non-believers chastise Christians for their beliefs. Christians churches all over the country help open clinics and hospitals for people in need, that's why you see Methodist hospitals, Lutheran hospitals, Southern Baptist hospitals, and so on, but you never see an Atheist hospital. Non-believers love to cut down peoples beliefs, why? Sometimes that's all a person has, so if you aren't helping someone why chastise them? What is so wrong with Christianity that people have to rebel against it? Yes, many Christians are crazed fanatics that try to push their religion onto others and do pretty bad things, but the majority of Christians are not that way because that is not what the bible teaches.

Like I said I'm not a Christian nor am I an Atheist. I am a spectator who calls it like I see it. I want to hear all of your opinions on this.

Don't turn this into a mindless flame war against religion. I know that the first thing the immature and uneducated members will want to post is "chrstianity sucks it's a fucking cult die you Jesus loving cunt", but try to be a little bit more intelligent and civil less you risk looking like an ignorant jackass. I'm open to all ideas, I'm a very open minded and respectful person when it comes to others opinions, all I ask that you show me the same respect.


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Invisibleblood4blood
Calmer Than You Are


Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: Innominate]
    #6914367 - 05/14/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

as long as your not an evangelical im cool with ya.


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OfflineTravILLer
8=========D


Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 136
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: Innominate]
    #6914371 - 05/14/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

as long as beliefs arent pushed onto others then i dont care what someone believes in.


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InvisibleInnominate
Male


Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 2,136
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: TravILLer]
    #6914502 - 05/14/07 02:13 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Those are very simple responses to what I thought to be a thought provoking question, as least on my part. I just want to know why Christianity is so frowned upon here.

I guess when it comes to religion if it isn't insulting or condescending in nature it isn't worthy of discussion. :shrug:


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Invisibleblood4blood
Calmer Than You Are


Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: Innominate]
    #6914543 - 05/14/07 02:21 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

its sorta been covered already. i don't follow it cause it doesn't make any sense. what makes a Christian so sure Christianity is the path and Judaism or Muslim isn't? its because its been pounded in your heads since you were little that this is right. a preacher once told me "give me a child until the age of 9 and they are mine for the rest of my life" religion is the cause of some much hatred and chaos in this world right now and in the past that its nothing i want to be a part of. its for people scarred of the reality when you die. always looking for something more. maybe if everybody came to grips with the inevitable end they would appreciate life more and stop consuming so much, and lessen the hatred.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 15,499
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Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: Innominate]
    #6914552 - 05/14/07 02:24 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Christians are generally good people. They do tend to be helpful and generous people. However, all organized religions that exist today have been spread through fear and force. I just cannot accept the fact that a conscious entity would create something that has lead to so much conflict and suffering. In my opinion, religion has done more harm than good. My main problem with Christians, or follower of any religion, is that they were told from a young age to attended church to believe in Jesus and God, and they never question that. They follow what everyone else believes, and do not think and find out what they really believe.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



Edited by robbyberto (05/14/07 02:42 PM)


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InvisibleSunny
free-ballin
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Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 12,350
Loc: on the magic bus
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: Innominate]
    #6914563 - 05/14/07 02:26 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I personally frown upon christianity, because few, if any of it's members are "christ-like" as the name implies. Christianity is divided into many sects who all disagree with each other about particular dogma.

They have taken the words of Jesus, and twisted them to mean something they don't, all the while completely missing his original point.

Love one another.

:shrug: Call me crazy.


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WAFFLEZZ!!!11!!!1!!!1!!!!


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Invisibleblood4blood
Calmer Than You Are


Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: robbyberto]
    #6914567 - 05/14/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

i highly recommend the movie Jesus Camp. this is the most scarry thing ive seen about organized religion in a long time


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OfflineTravILLer
8=========D


Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 136
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: Innominate]
    #6914610 - 05/14/07 02:36 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Innominate said:

I guess when it comes to religion if it isn't insulting or condescending in nature it isn't worthy of discussion. :shrug:




do you think that might be why christianity is discussed so much?  :uptosomething:


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InvisibleAtheist
Stranger
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Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 13,705
Loc: USA
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: Innominate]
    #6914630 - 05/14/07 02:38 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

when you talk to any Christian, they'r only argument is faith

to be saved, you must have faith....

well faith in what, something that isn't true? faith in wrong information?

yeah right :rolleyes:


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OfflineViveka
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Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: Innominate]
    #6914802 - 05/14/07 03:04 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I think a big reason why Christianity is so unpopular here is because mainstream Christianity is such an egocentric church, a cult of self preservation to state it extremely. So many "Christians" do what they are told by their church authority for one simple reason more than any other: they want to go to heaven when they die. That's not a very lofty spiritual aspiration is you ask me. Of course not all Christians are this small minded, but I think it's safe to say the majority probably are. Spread the word and go to church and follow the 10 commandments and "accept Christ into your heart" and you can ride Jesus' coattails into heaven.

I would like to see how the majority of Christians would reconcile their faith with the notion of their own annihilation, that one often glimpses on high dose psychadelic journeys. Without an "I" in the final equation, the typical mainstream Christian has no use for faith in the long run, since the main selling point of the religion is getting to enjoy an eternity in paradise.


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OfflineTurntableJunky
Ethno Grower
Male


Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: Viveka]
    #6914840 - 05/14/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)



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Offlinemr_kite
The Watcher
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Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: Innominate]
    #6915009 - 05/14/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Innominate said:
To start off, most of the members here are quite intelligent.





wowowowowowowowowow! steady as we go.


--------------------
let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love


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OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
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Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: Innominate]
    #6915208 - 05/14/07 04:22 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Ted Hasters (I believe is his name) is one reason I will never attend a Texas church when I move there. Not because of his homosexual encounters with a male prostitute, but because of some things he had said in a documentary I watched on HBO. He was explaining that the church could get anyone they want elected as long as they band together. He said with more organization we will have the power (im paraphrasing because I dont remember the exact quote). Another thing he said is that the church could run the government if they stick together and support one candidate that will push every issue they want. Im not saying its wrong to support a candidate that will push your issues, but when your all your issues take away freedoms, I have a problem with it. He also told some of his church members that sex without marriage is wrong and that if they wanted to have sex they needed to get married first. The church is no different than any corporate company, they strive for power. Not just Christianity, but most organized religions.

Christians are generally "good" people, its the people leading them that makes everyone hate the religion.

That and the bible makes no sense, but with FAITH I guess people can look past logic and believe Jack And The Beanstalk is real... or was it David and Goliath? I can never remember, they are the same story either way.


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There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


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OfflineAlCapwn
ID Reset, take that subpoena


Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2,957
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: Viveka]
    #6915238 - 05/14/07 04:27 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Viveka said:
I think a big reason why Christianity is so unpopular here is because mainstream Christianity is such an egocentric church, a cult of self preservation to state it extremely. So many "Christians" do what they are told by their church authority for one simple reason more than any other: they want to go to heaven when they die. That's not a very lofty spiritual aspiration is you ask me. Of course not all Christians are this small minded, but I think it's safe to say the majority probably are. Spread the word and go to church and follow the 10 commandments and "accept Christ into your heart" and you can ride Jesus' coattails into heaven.

I would like to see how the majority of Christians would reconcile their faith with the notion of their own annihilation, that one often glimpses on high dose psychadelic journeys. Without an "I" in the final equation, the typical mainstream Christian has no use for faith in the long run, since the main selling point of the religion is getting to enjoy an eternity in paradise.




Best point on Christianity I've seen so far.


--------------------
Huuuuurrrrrr!


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Offlinetheuser
DON'T LOOK
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Registered: 08/04/05
Posts: 5,859
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Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: Innominate]
    #6915259 - 05/14/07 04:30 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

It's a bunch of bullshit.


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:heart:


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InvisibleEllisDSox
King Hella!

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: mr_kite]
    #6915274 - 05/14/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I think use of psychedelics in a spiritual vein takes out the middle men previously necessary for religions to exist. I don't believe institutional religion is necessarily wrong or bad, it's just extremely easy to hijack and use to get people worked up and geared towards a goal that has nothing to do with God or religion.

A lot of atheists are far more vehement in their dislike of religious people than vice versa. To some people, atheism is nothing more than a dogmatic and mindless rejection of anything labelled a religion. Sounds almost like the things a lot of these same people criticise religion for, eh?

Now, I'm not trying to take sides here. Some of the kindest, most caring, loving people I have encountered have been atheists. Some have been religious. Someone isn't going to be a good or bad person based on their theological beliefs.

At its best, religion constitutes a spiritual connection between a person and the divine, whatever they consider it to be. At its worst, a lot of people get killed because their name for God is slightly different to that used by the people killing them.

The one objection I have to Christianity (actual Christian doctrine, rather than bad things done by so-called Christians) is the idea that the masses are just sheep being led to their salvation. I find that concept unhealthy. Anything that tries to teach people how to save themselves, I'm in favour of. I'm sure Jesus was amongst the greatest people to have ever lived, but I think that rather than listening to and following what he said, Christianity sometimes just idolises him. If you look at the similarities between Buddha and Christ as people, the differences between the respective religions are really quite shocking. In the end, though, like any other group, every religion has some genuinely spiritual believers, some people hijacking the ideas for their own reasons, and some tag alongs who, if religion didn't exist, would be following some other group.


--------------------
Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.


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OfflineAlCapwn
ID Reset, take that subpoena


Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2,957
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: EllisDSox]
    #6915410 - 05/14/07 04:52 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I don't hate anybody, personally, I just hate how Christianity works. I hate how Christianity tries to ban books, music and films that I like. I hate how just about anything interesting in this world is labeled evil by adamant Christians.


--------------------
Huuuuurrrrrr!


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Invisibleblood4blood
Calmer Than You Are


Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: AaronEvil]
    #6915549 - 05/14/07 05:13 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AaronEvil said:
Ted Hasters (I believe is his name) is one reason I will never attend a Texas church when I move there.





his name is ted haggard. hes in that movie jesus camp i recomended. this guy is quite a piece of work. i believe its because of these type of christians that bush got elected again.


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OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: A Discussion on Christianity. [Re: blood4blood]
    #6915579 - 05/14/07 05:21 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

My mistake on his name... Ill watch Jesus Camp tonight and get back to you on it. I have it in my car but have never watched it.


--------------------


There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


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