Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5  [ show all ]
Re: Nirvana... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7964801 -


If dying is re-entering THAT, in which there is no 'I' to feel sadness, regret, loss or anything our egoic mind fears, then dying will be like slipping into a hot bath, figuratively, with the pain of chronic multiplicity evaporating in the warmth of indivisible Oneness. In other words, it won't be a bad thing at all, given that one has to die after all.


This is my belief and fondest hope.:thumbup: Given the pettiness and dysfunction of my current personality I would like to see it dissolve.

If it is possibly true that love is the creative force and powerhouse of Tao then the base of love is unconditionalness.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Icelander]
    #7989907 -

I am so glad I took a few days rest. GEEEEZ

Pankster - Thanks for keeping up the debate, but I'm sure you've realized by now - There is no convincing her of anything (Mushroomtrip) even if her own contradictions are PAINFULLY obvious:D

Mushroomtrip - Your problem is called Pluralistic Relativism, plus you tend to Project a great deal. I don't think I'll bother responding to you any more. From what I have been able to tell you don't actually help further the conversation in any way. In fact I notice you have no idea what your talking about. And you just drag others into ridiculously circular arguments. Cheers.

Chronic777 - I understand what your saying in terms of the way in which you perceive of Nirvana and the way in which you perceive of achieving it. If you see Nirvana as absolute love and thats what your trying to achieve, thats great. But again, you should understand philosophically you are mistaken. Not so much subjectively, but in the context of Buddhist philosophy. Nirvana (or Nibbana for those using the Pali cannon) precisely means "without-form". It is the "highest" realization, if one can use a vertical mode of comparison. The realization of absolute love, or dissolution in "object", is more correctly the state of Samadhi(concentration). Samadhi is still dualistic in the sense that there is still the subject/object relation even though it relates the state of dissolution in "object". Nirvana is non-dual, Subject and Object are "not-two". If you had realized Nirvana, who would there be to Love Absolutely? Do you really believe we are all separate from you?

Synthetic mind - You are absolutely correct. In fact the Buddha said exactly that. He related it in the story of the boat and the shore. He said, in short, that it would be a mis-use of the boat to carry it on your back once you had reached the far shore. So implying it is a mis-use of the scriptures to continue to use-them/rely-on-them after you have realized there purpose/meaning.


--------------------
Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Fugai]
    #7990996 -

I feel Nirvana is pure unconditional love in a way because it is free of attachment to other things, as it is everything.

And true love is based in this rule also, you can cannot truly love anything unless you are unattached to it.

I know Nirvana isnt unconditional love, yet it is, :yinyang:

Its weird my consciousness (if you will) totally understands it, and can feel it yet my brian just cannot contemplate it, like thinking about it is pointless, you can only be it.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Chronic7]
    #7991112 -

chronic777 said:
I feel Nirvana is pure unconditional love in a way because it is free of attachment to other things, as it is everything.


but what is pure unconditional love?

i think it is also much more than pure unconditional love. unconditional love is just a word we have constructed in our minds through various feelings and concepts we have experienced. there is much more awakening for us to flower in our life, and once the flower has bloomed we've only emerged out of the cocoon. i think nirvana is more of a process than a state, and there are many layers we can awaken to.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: deranger]
    #7991234 -

I feel Nirvana is all there is, its the only thing that escapes impermanance, it is "heaven" if you will, but when we feel this as a temporary force/feeling/energy in human physical form, i think unconditional love describes it best, but thats just for me, to cater to my ego in all honesty, as it implies acceptance of all for what it is not what your ego wishes it to be.

Im not saying Nirvana IS unconditional love, but unconditional love is closely related to it, in the sense if you feel nothing but unconditional love/non attachment (as true love/accpetance is free of all atatchment) then at death you shall be Nirvana for ever and ever.

I wouldn't even say unconditional love is a feeling, its truley BEing.
I feel most feelings are attached to outcomes, however BEing isnt.

Im sure we could discuss this till we are blue int he face and still get nowhere, but thats the beauty of being a self conscious human being :smile:

I think my focus should be more on being here now (being free of attachment for the future and past)

:yinyang:

ps the internet is an amazing aspect of technology, imagine if you guys werent here to talk to....not alot of my friends/family are spiritual people and anytime i try and bring them a small bit of enlightenment they ask me to stop with all the hippie bullcrap.

:smile:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Chronic7]
    #7991315 -

that is the way i feel too. but i must always keep in mind that there is much more unity to be made aware of, and that there is most likely a whole other reality our awareness has not tapped into yet.

i feel ya on the friends/family labelling this all as hippie bullshit. but i look at how miserable they are in their daily lives and it really makes me smile.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: deranger]
    #7991628 -

but seeing that misery makes me want to help them realise true nature.

my stepdad is constantly reading stephen hawking and encyclopedia's searching for knowledge (due to mid life crisis) if only he would hear me instead of just listening...


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Chronic7]
    #7991870 -

Synthetic Mind gets it essentially.
Everyone has there path, and in the end I know we will all arrive.
It seems your on the path of devotion, which is beautiful.
Your step dad seems to be on the path of knowledge, which is admirable.
Both of you, I have no doubt, will come to the realization of the underlying unity (Nirvana) given that you stay the course.
But the one point I would like to make, that I have been trying in various ways to convey, is that having realized underlying unity what other is there to Love unconditionally?
Just ask yourself a couple questions, that I have already posited. These questions lie at the heart of the understanding of Unconditional Love, and Underlying Unity.
Do you really believe that you are separate from that which you love?
Ultimately we are what we seek to understand.
Something that has caused a lot of pain in my life is exactly an issue you touched on, wanting to help others rid themselves of their own suffering. I hope you soon realize, long before I did, that you cannot help anyone, there is no-one to help my friend. People can only help themselves, and trying to help them realize something that their awareness is just not ready to accept can actually work in the reverse. It is this struggle that has lead me to write and adopt my principles of acceptance, which I always post as my signature. In the context of your step-dad, you must trust that the path of knowledge will lead him to the far shore. That doesn't mean you shouldn't help when asked though, but only answer those questions that he comes to on his own. People who here something their not ready to accept more often than not reject the entire concept and will not revisit it.


--------------------
Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Chronic7]
    #7992094 -

chronic777 said:
but seeing that misery makes me want to help them realise true nature.


absolutely, it is just so hard for some of them who are so deeply rooted in darkness.

whatever you say they already have a premeditated preconceived judgement of. you can only point them in the direction into themselves, which is fucking hard.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Fugai]
    #7992118 -

Quote:
Fugai said:But the one point I would like to make, that I have been trying in various ways to convey, is that having realized underlying unity what other is there to Love unconditionally?


Too true, there is no other except onself, one being in one a giant heart pulsing in the body that is our galaxy. now how much we can realize this is beyond me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Fugai]
    #7992204 -

I get you.

One can only liberate oneself.

This is hard to explain in words but i don't see love as separate from anything, i dont think ofit as if there has to be something TO love.

Unconditional love is:

total acceptance
nonattachment
pure peace
pristine awareness
pure life everywhere

And all these things can be said of Nirvana too, all im doing is pointing out they have the same fundamental principles. Not making a sweeping statement like they are one in the same, like i might have done in the past. Sorry if i did that.

Nirvana has been described by the Buddha himself as the highest love/happyness, pure eternal bliss. The mind/consciousness free from craving. And true love is also free from all craving.

Foprever unconditional love will be my own personal path to Nirvana. Other may have different paths but i am sure that unconditional love will be what liberates me, feel free to question it as it only tests my faith in it...which is nice :smile:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Fugai]
    #7992716 -

There is no convincing her of anything

Fugai, personalisms are against the rules of this forum. That means you debate the issues being brought up, but you leave the people you're debating out of the debate.

This forum is about philosophy, not gossip. Please stick to the topic.

Consider this a formal warning.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Chronic7]
    #7993508 -

Quote:
This is hard to explain in words but i don't see love as separate from anything, i dont think ofit as if there has to be something TO love.

Unconditional love is:

total acceptance
nonattachment
pure peace
pristine awareness
pure life everywhere

And all these things can be said of Nirvana too, all im doing is pointing out they have the same fundamental principles. Not making a sweeping statement like they are one in the same, like i might have done in the past. Sorry if i did that.

Nirvana has been described by the Buddha himself as the highest love/happyness, pure eternal bliss. The mind/consciousness free from craving. And true love is also free from all craving.

Foprever unconditional love will be my own personal path to Nirvana. Other may have different paths but i am sure that unconditional love will be what liberates me, feel free to question it as it only tests my faith in it...which is nice 


I understand what your conveying now. It's all been a matter of dialectic. As it is always it seems. I have always said the central disagreement between people is most often not what is being discussed, but the terms in which we discuss it.;)
You would really enjoy the philosophy of Deleuze. In my opinion he is the only non-dualistic post-modernist, and as Foucault once said we may in time see this as the Deleuzian age. His premise is similar to your own. He uses the term "immanence" to describe that "ground-of-all/love-for-all" (if I may so simplify). You should give him a look.

And Diploid - I respect that you saw that as an attack on another member and must, of your position, say something about it. I will say that the entire phrase you quoted, taken as a whole, is merely the definition of "incorrigible", also indicating/implying "not correctable". In my opinion that is not an attack of the person (nor was it meant to be), merely an observation on a particular trait. A trait that is not conducive of debate. My comment was not meant to demean, more to reflect my opinion that it is better not to even respond. You might notice, though it is petty for me to have to bring it to light, that she was being antagonistic.
But, do what you need. It affects me little - even your public indignity. I think everyone can see I was right:smirk:


--------------------
Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: psyka]
    #7993597 -

well said.
being one who has had an active relationship with nirvana, i wouldn't recommend it. it will tear you apart. no happiness or complacency can be found there.

Edited by bodhiman777 (02/07/08 10:51 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Nirvana... [Re: bodhiman777]
    #7994839 -

Enjoy the sweetness of life while you can.


--------------------

Hemp could Save the World.

"There is no flag that is large enough, to hide the shame of a man in cuffs." -Serj Tankian


:mushroomgrow:Know Thyself.:mushroomgrow:

"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
-Terence Mckenna

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Nirvana Sutra? (Mahāparinirvāṇa Sūtra)
( 1 2 all )		 Chronic7 3,139 31 02/21/08 05:37 AM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Is unconditional love impossible.
( 1 2 3 4 ... 15 16 )		 Icelander 18,280 311 07/31/21 11:06 AM
by redgreenvines
* unconditional love
( 1 2 3 all )		 crunchytoast 3,309 40 08/12/05 06:44 PM
by OldWoodSpecter
* Love and buddhism [the Nirvana]
( 1 2 all )		 Meph 4,461 25 05/07/03 04:42 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Hui-neng's stanza on nirvana and deathlessness
( 1 2 3 all )		 Quoiyaien 5,645 42 05/20/08 06:07 AM
by dblaney
* I love everyone unconditionally
( 1 2 3 all )		 dustinthewind13 1,791 45 10/17/11 01:22 PM
by dustinthewind13
* Unconditional Love vs Competition
( 1 2 3 all )		 Swami 5,319 56 09/16/05 11:44 AM
by crunchytoast
* Is love ever unconditional?
( 1 2 all )		 Silversoul 1,941 27 09/30/05 05:24 PM
by Icelander

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
5,490 topic views. 1 members, 37 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.027 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 15 queries.