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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Nirvana... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7956550 - 01/30/08 04:55 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

For real no way is love attachment.

Like the old saying, if you truly love something you let it go.


--------------------


Edited by Chronic7 (01/30/08 04:55 PM)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Chronic7]
    #7956557 - 01/30/08 04:57 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Like the old saying, if you truly love something you let it go.




If the case requires :wink:
For example, if I am madly in love with someone and he loves me back and we are happy together, why should we "let go"? :confused:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Nirvana... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7956622 - 01/30/08 05:07 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

It doesnt mean that, you know what it means you just like talking back to me :smile:

It means you have no attachment to it, its not like saying you should leave them, it just means you have no control over that which you love, no attachment.


--------------------


Edited by Chronic7 (01/30/08 05:08 PM)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Chronic7]
    #7956649 - 01/30/08 05:13 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Entirely true :smile:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineFugai
Stranger
Male

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Nirvana... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7956767 - 01/30/08 05:31 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Your are correct that attachment and love are not synonymous. But you are mistaking attachment to that which is loved for attachment to love itself.
I might have done better to say that "love is an attachment". Either way the meaning is fundamentally the same.


--------------------
Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Nirvana... [Re: Fugai]
    #7956793 - 01/30/08 05:36 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Attachment implies possessives and love can be experienced without this feeling.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: Nirvana... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7956871 - 01/30/08 05:48 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

i don't think love is attachment or acceptance.
it is beneficience - a kind of consciousness that means to benefit what it contacts.
nirvana is postponed until all beings are enlightened because of love


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineFugai
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Registered: 01/27/08
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Re: Nirvana... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7956943 - 01/30/08 06:00 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I thought I expelled the misunderstanding.
I clearly stated that love and attachment are not synonymous.
Again, your confusing attachment to that which is loved to attachment to love itself.
You can think the term implies anything you like. That is your own feeling about it. But it has nothing to do with the reality of the issue. Attachment is absolutely different than possession. The misunderstanding is often what leads to the view that you cannot have one without the other. this is both unhealthy and is another issue entirely.
If you love something you will both lament its loss, and/or the loss of your love for it. This is AN attachment. Either to the object of your love, or merely to the love you have for it itself. Either way, it is an attachment.
If that doesn't clear it up I will just let it be, I hate repeating myself and going off on tangents.


--------------------
Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.


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OfflineFugai
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Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Orygun
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Nirvana... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7957031 - 01/30/08 06:13 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I really like that way of thinking about it redgreenvines, that was truly beautiful.
Though there again, the meaning of benefit is dependent itself on internal conditions and entirely debatable on its own. Benefit in what way? To believe you can benefit anyone, is to believe that there condition is lacking something in some way. True? What benefit can you be?
But ultimately as nirvana implies, there are no beings to enlighten my friend.
You must accept un-enlightenment as well.


--------------------
Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Nirvana... [Re: Fugai]
    #7957051 - 01/30/08 06:16 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

If you love something you will both lament its loss, and/or the loss of your love for it. This is AN attachment. Either to the object of your love, or merely to the love you have for it itself. Either way, it is an attachment.




Not necessarily.
Because lament happens when there's lack of understanding regarding the evolution of a situation.
For example if my cat was to die, I would feel a certain feeling of sadness, but I would not lament. This is because I would understand that this is the natural course of life, because I would very much prefer to focus on the connection I shared with it.
Attachment would happen if I would refuse to let go, to accept the fact of it's death, if I would ask questions as why, if I would think that I (or my cat) have been victims of the circumstances and so on.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Fugai]
    #7957062 - 01/30/08 06:17 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

I think the point is TRUE love is free of ALL attachment.

Theres can not be attachment, otherwise it is not Love, true love is appreciating and accpeting something for what it is, not what you want it to be.

If you truly love something you will NOT lament its loss, you will still love it for whatever it is. If there is any attachment, there is no Love only ego food.


--------------------


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
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Re: Nirvana... [Re: Chronic7]
    #7957071 - 01/30/08 06:18 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

chronic777 said:
I think the point is TRUE love is free of ALL attachment.

Theres can not be attachment, otherwise it is not Love, true love is appreciating and accpeting something for what it is, not what you want it to be.

If you truly love something you will NOT lament its loss, you will still love it for whatever it is. If there is any attachment, there is no Love only ego food.




Yup


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleChronic7

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Nirvana... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7957147 - 01/30/08 06:31 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

True love is unconditional love.

For me, the way to Nirvana is through non-attachment.

As if you have no-attachment you accpet everything for what it is, not what you want it to be, thus you have no fear of anything, and the opposite of fear is love.

So Nirvana is PURE LOVE!



Thats what makes sense to me right now anyway, good night folks!
(nice way to end the day!):peace:


--------------------


Edited by Chronic7 (01/30/08 06:34 PM)


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OfflineFugai
Stranger
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Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 80
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Re: Nirvana... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7957256 - 01/30/08 07:00 PM (16 years, 2 days ago)

No disrespect mushroomtrip, but I can tell your a woman. Your trying to make the issue more complicated than it is.
As you said, you will feel sad. I guess that doesn't seem significantly applicable to what I am trying to convey, but it really should.
Whether or not you accept the loss has nothing at all to do with the loss itself.
You still haven't understood the difference in the attachment of that which is loved and the attachment to love itself.
You are attached to your love, it is apparent. That does not mean you are attached to anything you feel love for.
Not that being attached to love is a bad thing, it is a good thing I would think. I am merely arguing the philosophical standpoint that is the focus of this thread. And whatever you think about something, thats what it is. But you should understand, as far as Buddhist philosophy is concerned, you are wrong, sorry.

and chronic, as I said before, whatever your focus you will achieve. I won't try and convince you of anything. If your focus is unconditional love, that is beautiful.
And if you should realize the state of unconditional love for all beings, that in turn will lead you to Nirvana.
My argument was only that they are not one and the same. Cheers


--------------------
Principles of acceptance
* People do not progress by being questioned, they progress by questioning themselves.

* When ready for the answer, people will come to the question of themselves.


Edited by Fugai (01/30/08 07:28 PM)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Nirvana... [Re: Fugai]
    #7959085 - 01/31/08 03:24 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Wow, how did I miss this incredibly retarded post? :strokebeard:

Hmmm, let's see:

Quote:

No disrespect mushroomtrip, but I can tell your a woman.




Can your debating skills get any worse? I guess that we're about to find out. :smirk:
This kind of remark has no place in this forum. If you're looking for these kinds of dumb remarks, try the OTD. :thumbup:

Quote:

As you said, you will feel sad. I guess that doesn't seem significantly applicable to what I am trying to convey, but it really should.




So does it or doesn't it? You're being ambiguous.

Quote:

Whether or not you accept the loss has nothing at all to do with the loss itself.




Your point is?

Quote:

You still haven't understood the difference in the attachment of that which is loved and the attachment to love itself.




Of course I did, only that for some reason you find it impossible to understand that it is possible not to feel any form of attachment to either of them.
Even in a case of attachment to love, the example that I gave still applies, since the reactions would be the same:

Quote:

Because lament happens when there's lack of understanding regarding the evolution of a situation.
For example if my cat was to die, I would feel a certain feeling of sadness, but I would not lament. This is because I would understand that this is the natural course of life, because I would very much prefer to focus on the connection I shared with it.
Attachment would happen if I would refuse to let go, to accept the fact of it's death, if I would ask questions as why, if I would think that I (or my cat) have been victims of the circumstances and so on.




If I were to feel attachment towards the love for my cat, I would have kicked and screamed and refused to accept the situation.

Or perhaps, if you don't agree, you could provide with an example on how exactly does attachment to love would manifest, other that what I explained. :hehehe:

Quote:

You are attached to your love, it is apparent.




Interesting. :sherlock:
Care to elaborate?

Quote:

And whatever you think about something, thats what it is.




Really?
So if I think that pigs can fly and grow and afro haircut, it means that it will happen. :yesnod:

Quote:

But you should understand, as far as Buddhist philosophy is concerned, you are wrong, sorry.




Reading biased buddhist books and then copying and pasting is kind of lame if you ask me. :lol:
For example:

Quote:

Nir-vana means without-form. It is a non-state
You can neither attain nor achieve it, if you try you will move further away. Nirvana is the original state of the universe, and so your self. It is the state in which you currently find yourself.
It is your own ignorance that causes the false identification. You are unaware of your original state and so you mistake your feelings and thoughts as your self, as being your state. This is of course the source of all suffering.
You cannot feel Nirvana, you are nirvana.




Keep digging. :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlineprankster
the twin
Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 96
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Nirvana... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7959143 - 01/31/08 05:02 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Why would attachment demand kicking and screaming?

Seriously, how would you react if FWG suddenly called you tomorrow to tell you he wanted out?

There is nothing wrong with crying a little and experiencing sadness. Attachment is not either/or, black/white. Maybe there are neurotic degrees of attachment, and also healthy ways of being attached? Like a couple fusing a bit. So losing your companion would be like losing a bit of yourself that you really liked.

Maybe attachment means different things for different people.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Nirvana... [Re: prankster]
    #7959147 - 01/31/08 05:09 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Kicking and screaming?
So if I point out the idiotic remarks such as "you're a woman and that's why you say this", blah blah blah, it is suddenly kicking and screaming.

As you saw (or not) I already made the difference between feeling sad and having an emotional attachment.
In my opinion, sadness can and is being experienced, without the necessity of being attached.
The difference resides in the fact that when one is not attached, one is able to get along with one's live, continue breathing and searching for understanding and happiness.
When one feels like one doesn't want to live anymore, experience deep depressions, hate, the appetite for revenge, THAT is attachment.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlineprankster
the twin
Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 96
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Nirvana... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7959149 - 01/31/08 05:13 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

Love is attachment to things.




Love in not attachment, love IS acceptance, if love was attachment then it would have been called attachment instead of love. It's kind of simple if you think about it.





By the same logic, wouldn't love be called acceptance if it was acceptance?


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Offlineprankster
the twin
Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 96
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Nirvana... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7959150 - 01/31/08 05:13 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Kicking and screaming?
So if I point out the idiotic remarks such as "you're a woman and that's why you say this", blah blah blah, it is suddenly kicking and screaming.

As you saw (or not) I already made the difference between feeling sad and having an emotional attachment.
In my opinion, sadness can and is being experienced, without the necessity of being attached.
The difference resides in the fact that when one is not attached, one is able to get along with one's live, continue breathing and searching for understanding and happiness.
When one feels like one doesn't want to live anymore, experience deep depressions, hate, the appetite for revenge, THAT is attachment.




But WHY does it have to be that extreme?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
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Re: Nirvana... [Re: prankster]
    #7959151 - 01/31/08 05:15 AM (16 years, 1 day ago)

No, I expressed myself incomplete.
But yes, one of the things that Love automatically includes is acceptance. I could also say that, in some cases, feeling only acceptance is love. Because love has many forms of manifestation, and this, in my opinion, is one of them.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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