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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Is love ever unconditional?
    #4732924 - 09/29/05 07:48 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Would your father still love you if you murdered your mother? Would you still love your spouse/partner if they stabbed you, stole all your money, and ran away with your best friend? Is there any limit to love, even among those we consider ourselves to love unconditionally?


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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4732935 - 09/29/05 07:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Al(l)ways! :smile:


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OfflineCeeThruMeer
Aztek GoatBecoming Eagle

Registered: 12/08/04
Posts: 396
Loc: BC, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4732941 - 09/29/05 07:53 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I think it is more likely to love life unconditionally than to love specific people etc. unconditionally... But if one is to love life unconditionally, then yes, in a way there is no limit to that love.


--------------------
"my old friend told me
to do well always
set your sails, open
ride your waves, flowing
just relax, sober
leave you past, it's over
bind two hands, stronger
my soul waits, forward" - Arjun and Guardians


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Offlinepsilocyb0rg
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Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4732942 - 09/29/05 07:53 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

We, as humans, will ALWAYS put ourselves over eachother. there's nothing wrong with that, of course. survival of the fittist. :grin:


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4732946 - 09/29/05 07:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, love is unconditional. Otherwise it ain't love.

Like giving a "gift". When you give it, it no longer belongs to you. Yet all the time people expect returns on their "gifts".

The concept is easy once you understand what love isn't. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineCeeThruMeer
Aztek GoatBecoming Eagle

Registered: 12/08/04
Posts: 396
Loc: BC, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Icelander]
    #4732958 - 09/29/05 07:55 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
The concept is easy once you understand what love isn't. :wink:


:thumbup: :heart: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"my old friend told me
to do well always
set your sails, open
ride your waves, flowing
just relax, sober
leave you past, it's over
bind two hands, stronger
my soul waits, forward" - Arjun and Guardians


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OfflineBooby
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Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4733046 - 09/29/05 08:21 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Love: A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude

Solicitude: A cause of anxiety or concern.

Yeah I think we could be concerned deeply, and anxious, so yeah I think so;

But that depends on our interpretation of just what "Love" is.

edit:

Anxiety is selfish, therefor love is selfish? probably, but is that really love?


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.


Edited by Booby (09/29/05 08:29 PM)


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OnlineAsanteA
light your candle on my love
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Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4733499 - 09/29/05 10:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Unconditional love is total dependence.

Everybody has boundaries. We all do. If you let your lover cross those crudely and you still love her/him and have it done to you over and over again, you're denying yourself the self-love and self-respect which you need to be a healthy, balanced human being.
Unconditional love and sound mental health are incompatible.

In my view there is a selfishness in everything we do or don't do, it being the ultimate motivator, and that makes selfishness a good/neutral thing, not something to look down on like it is throughout western culture.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Asante]
    #4733508 - 09/29/05 10:02 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Unconditional love is total dependence.

Everybody has boundaries. We all do. If you let your lover cross those crudely and you still love her/him and have it done to you over and over again, you're denying yourself the self-love and self-respect which you need to be a healthy, balanced human being.
Unconditional love and sound mental health are incompatible.

In my view there is a selfishness in everything we do or don't do, it being the ultimate motivator, and that makes selfishness a good/neutral thing, not something to look down on like it is throughout western culture.




Boy do we have different definitions of unconditional love. I think you're talking about unconditional addiction. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Asante]
    #4736208 - 09/30/05 12:59 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Unconditional love is total dependence.

Everybody has boundaries. We all do. If you let your lover cross those crudely and you still love her/him and have it done to you over and over again, you're denying yourself the self-love and self-respect which you need to be a healthy, balanced human being.
Unconditional love and sound mental health are incompatible.





Who said you have to be a doormat when you love someone?

I love my sons, and I will not withdraw that love based on their behaviors.  Because I love them, and because I am in charge of them, I will either allow them to experience the natural consequences of their mistakes, or create consequences to teach them that they have made a poor choice.

If they are disrespectful or abusive to me, I will not tolerate it.  If someone else I love is disrespectful or abusive to me, I will not tolerate it.  I will firmly state that their behavior is unacceptable to me, describe the way I wish to be treated, and state the consequences of their continuing to mistreat me.

These consequences will never involve withdrawing my love, and in the case of my sons, will never involve excluding them from my life.  If a friend or partner continues to mistreat me, I will exclude them from my life, but not kick them out of my heart.

THAT is unconditional love of self and others. :heart:


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
Up From Sloth
Male

Registered: 08/28/05
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Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Veritas]
    #4736309 - 09/30/05 01:20 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Altruism, however, is a farce.


--------------------
"A Bad Day for Pants"


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Invisiblepsyka
Praetorian
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Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4736445 - 09/30/05 01:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Unconditional love is touchy.

Logically, it cannot happen as human living is in itself an inescapable condition.

Obviously, if a axe murderer kills all of your family you will not love him, and probably seek retribution for his deeds.

But, I feel something towards everyone, a shared emotion. The fact that we're all on this rock together is enough for me to call everybody my brother and be inclined to feel compassionate towards all beings on Earth.

The phrase "unconditional love" represents a model of thought. It is a dream, similiar to a body builders goal. There are physical limits to the body and its ability to produce muscles, but while working them out you dont think about this fact. You reach for the stars and push until you can give no more.

BTW, I dislike the word "love." I'd rather invent a new word to represent compasionnate understanding of the highest order.

I'll close my post with a quote,
"When you judge a man, tip the scales in his favor."


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4736532 - 09/30/05 02:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Love does not exist. There can be no unconditional love.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: daimyo]
    #4736546 - 09/30/05 02:06 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Proof?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblepsyka
Praetorian
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Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Icelander]
    #4736578 - 09/30/05 02:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Define love.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Icelander]
    #4736595 - 09/30/05 02:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

My proof is the same as the opposing viewers...subjective opinion formed through experience. Nothing concrete if that's what you're looking for.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: psyka]
    #4736642 - 09/30/05 02:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psyka said:
Define love.




Conscious love is not an emotion; it is serene mergin with yourself, with other people, with other forms of energy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
Up From Sloth
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Registered: 08/28/05
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Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Icelander]
    #4736750 - 09/30/05 02:49 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

So it's a form of empathy? 

I dig love.  Here, I'll share:    :inlove:


--------------------
"A Bad Day for Pants"


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4736837 - 09/30/05 03:03 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, I would say so. It connects. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblepsyka
Praetorian
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Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: Is love ever unconditional? [Re: Icelander]
    #4737132 - 09/30/05 03:55 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

So you're basically just saying, a higher sense of understanding?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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