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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story



Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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The Church of Modern Medicine *DELETED*
#7666605 - 11/22/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by LunarEclipseReason for deletion: ama
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: LunarEclipse]
#7666931 - 11/22/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Except there are objective data supporting the achievements of modern medicine.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
Edited by badchad (11/22/07 04:56 PM)
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vaportrail
upandaway



Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 121
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: badchad]
#7667461 - 11/22/07 04:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's definitely a new take at medicine. It's true that many people have blind faith in their doctors, I was one of them and it didn't go so well. It's painful to see others putting all sorts of pills in themselves, and I can't object because I'm not "the doctor."
Modern medicine has accomplished great things, but I'd like to know what you think if we add Antidepressants into this picture Lunar has painted for us. Salvation? yea right
-------------------- and the hippos were boiled in their tanks
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: vaportrail]
#7667817 - 11/22/07 06:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I like how they give people death sentences, and instead of trying to improve the quality of what little life they have left, they entice them with vain hopes of living longer, or "beating the cancer" which entails tens of thousands of dollars of treatment and sickness. Frankly, I have yet to ever know of someone who is a cancer "survivor" that didnt have a lapse and eventually die from the second go round.
"Ah, I see here, you can either change your diet, enjoy life, spend time with your family for the next 2 years that you will live, or you can have all your hair fall out, be drugged or violently ill when you are awake.... and let me tell you that choice 2 is the only "honorable" thing to do... you should try to beat cancer, because just living out the rest of your life and coming to terms with death is a cowards way out... sign here".
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: SneezingPenis]
#7667956 - 11/22/07 07:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I appreciate modern medicine for it's efficacy in emergency situations. If I lose a finger the first place I'm going is the hospital. Last spring I got pneumonia to the degree where it may have been life threatening, and they did what had to be done (the most intense antibiotics available, and lots of iv fluids to hydrate me.) But better than that is prevention. I wouldn't have gotten pneumonia if I'd been much more careful to eat well, take lots of vitamin C, and take immune supporting herbs on a constistent basis. I'm more careful this year and so far I've only had one mild cold when by now I'd usually be in the midst of my second brutal bout of illness. I think it's really important that people are more aware of thier bodies and more aware of alternative treatments.
I also think that it's ridiculous that the accepted attitude in western medicine is that if you are not experiencing acute illness, you are healthy. Marginal and compromised health is considered "normal" so long as there are no severe symptoms.
I also really hate how many doctors have the attitude that they should be in charge of your health. They don't explain things in technical terms to thier patients, assuming they won't get it, and act like we should all just trust thier judgement. Now I'm happy to trust my doctor's judgement, so long as they explain and justify it to me and tell me straight up, in the most detailed of terms, exactly what leads them to make the judgement. I also require them to listen to my concerns and take my views regarding health seriously. I have been laughed at for telling doctors that I take immune supporting herbs. As if medicine only works when it's stripped out of it's source, isolated and synthesized.
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TheCow
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,790
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: SneezingPenis]
#7668097 - 11/22/07 08:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I know many cancer survivors, so I do not know what you mean unless you live under the sea, with crabs and whatnot. Is that where you live? Among the crabs?
To all who do not like modern medicine, big deal, don't use it. I could care less. I don't see why a post is necessary. If you get a disease, or an infection, or cancer, or aids, go see some guy with plants, I bet that'll do the trick. It's really irrelevant to me.
Edit: Also I don't know what you guys are even talking about. I see the doctor extremely infrequently, so he doesn't prescribe me some complex health plan involving drugs as this thread seems to be implying. Just don't be a tool and freak out constantly and go to the doctor. If I have the flu, I know I have the flu I don't need to go to a doctor. If I have a large lump growing on my balls, then I will go to the doctor. I go of course for a checkup every once in a while to make sure my body hasn't fallen apart but I don't ever recall him giving me a list of drugs to take to appease the drug companies.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: TheCow]
#7668191 - 11/22/07 08:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think you missed the point of my post. Every single person I have known that "beat" cancer had a relapse.... meaning that basically it staved off cancer. Off course, there are those people that found a lump very early, or found something with very premature growth, and it was able to be cut out.... those people I guess call themselves "survivors"... but not really.
I think every one here has said at one point (besides me, but consider this it) that they do appreciate what advances modern medicine has made. but that doesnt really justify anything that they do. How long can you keep saying "we cured polio" when pressed for justification of questionable practices?
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TheCow
Stranger

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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: SneezingPenis]
#7672373 - 11/23/07 08:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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All I'm saying is, just simply do not use modern medicine. It's not really a problem for me, and it does not appear to be a problem for you.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: TheCow]
#7672400 - 11/23/07 08:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's kind of like saying "if you don't like something about this country, than get out." Silly. Thinking critically is important.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: TheCow]
#7672691 - 11/23/07 09:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheCow said: All I'm saying is, just simply do not use modern medicine. It's not really a problem for me, and it does not appear to be a problem for you.
are you in med school? because you have that essence of arrogance in your text that reminds me so much of the "its DOCTOR so-and-so" type. Doctors think they are so elite... they truly believe that their job is the most important one in the world.
but to get back to your post, I dont really use "modern medicine". Recently I had to get my foot cut open because of a staph infection..... that i got from visiting someone in the hospital. so... you figure that one out. Up until that point I had never used "modern medicine" for years and years.... so much that I honestly cant remember the last time I had to use it. I sliced my foot open 8 years ago and had to get stitches, but that really isnt modern. I broke and dislocated my pinky toe, and the doctor numbed it and then used a Bic pen to bend it back in place and then taped it to my other toe.
I find most often that using modern medicine forces you to keep using modern medicine. "well sir, your grandfathers hip replacement went fine, but he caught pneumonia and died". Score one for us since we did send him to the grave with a modern medical miracle.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: LunarEclipse]
#7675250 - 11/24/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said: Are you still a member?
My parents were card carrying members and taught me to be one. I still carry the card and make donations to the Church and even have a $ 2500/year deductible for the privilege.
"The Miracles of Modern Medicine" have been taught to every kid over the last 100 years. Even the word miracles has religious overtones and explains the faith and worship in Church members.
I am having suspicions that my Church may be a cult. Like any cult member, I have found deprogramming to be hard. It is made worse by the "in order to be healthy you have to have a flu shot yearly" crowd. Watching TV with 3 miracle drug ads per hour certainly doesn't help. And I think I have a going problem and a restless leg.
http://www.whale.to/b/hoax1.html
16. Vaccination as sacrament. If you still believe in vaccination then you could be a fully paid up (covert or otherwise) member of what Robert Mendelsohn MD called the "Church of Modern Medicine."
"When religion was strong and science weak, men mistook magic for medicine, now when science is strong and religion weak, men mistake medicine for magic"-----Thomas Szasz
The Shadow government has created an atheist society through the media and the poor quality of spiritual teachings from the establishment churches. As Maslow pointed out in his hierarchy of needs (also John Lilly in his book Simulations of God), just because we don't believe in God doesn't stop our desire to believe in something, and that need has been cleverly exploited by the Atheists who run the world. Allopathic medicine has been cleverly set up as a crypto-religion using the authority ploy with God as Modern Medicine, and vaccination as the Holy Sacrament.
It is a false idol. If you have a covert attachment to something like the Medical Industry on a deep level as a God substitute then it is hard to give that up, and all sorts of denial come up to block that realisation.
"For a paediatrician to attack what has become the "bread and butter" of paediatric practice is equivalent to a priest denying the infallibility of the pope.-------Robert Mendelsohn, MD
You are encouraged to believe that if you doubt one medicine, vaccination, you are doubting everything, but in fact, you can give up vaccination and survive meltdown. I still use an allopath, I just avoid taking most allopathic medicines if possible.
"Vaccines have become sacraments of our faith in biotechnology in the sense that 1) their efficacy and safety are widely seen as self-evident and needing no further proof; 2) they are given automatically to everyone, by force if necessary, but always in the name of the public good; and 3) they ritually initiate our loyal participation in the medical enterprise as a whole. They celebrate our right and power as a civilization to manipulate biological processes ad libitum and for profit, without undue concern for or even any explicit concept of the total health of the populations about to be subjected to them."---Richard Moskowitz M.D http://www.whale.to/vaccines/god.html
"Physicians have taken the place of priests; vaccination plays the same initiatory role as baptism, and is accompanied by the same threats and fears; the search for health has replaced the quest for salvation; the fight against disease has replaced the fight against sin; eradication of viruses has taken the place of exorcising demons; the hope of physical immortality (cloning, genetic engineering) has been substituted for the hope of eternal life; pills have replaced the sacrament of bread and wine; donations to cancer research take precedence over donations to the church; a hypothetical universal vaccine could save humanity from all its illnesses, as the Saviour has saved the world from all its sins; the medical power has become the government’s ally, as was the Catholic Church in the past; "charlatans” are persecuted today as "heretics” were yesterday; dogmatism rules out promising alternative medical theories; the same absence of individual responsibility is now found in medicine, as previously in the Christian religion; patients are alienated from their bodies, as sinners used to be from their souls."---Olivier Clerc
I agree. Modern medicine is a crap shoot because modern medicine will not look at things that don't make them money. This is criminal and so IMO they are not to be trusted. I am very careful about using their services and don't believe what they say with out doing some research of my own. They are pretty good with mechanical things but mostly thats where it ends for me. Learning about a health promoting lifestyle and living it is the key to staying out of their greedy little clutches.
Edited by Icelander (11/24/07 05:04 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: Icelander]
#7675467 - 11/24/07 06:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Learning about a health promoting lifestyle...
One of us eats junk food and one of us follows a 'healthy' diet. I will let the readers guess who has been sick this week.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7675488 - 11/24/07 06:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said: That's kind of like saying "if you don't like something about this country, than get out."
That makes sense. It is like saying if the sun bothers you, get out of the sun; or if your current living situation is not pleasant, then get out of it.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Sure. But where I live, going to the doctor is free; seeking alternative treatment is expensive. So if you need help with a problem, you either have to see the dude who will kick you out of his office after 3 minutes with a prescription, or shell out the bucks (that you may or may not have) for someone who will actually take the time to help you holistically.
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xFrockx



Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7675647 - 11/24/07 07:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, I totally agree, modern medicine is a crock. I'd much rather trust my shaman to give me the best bear bile and herbs he can find in the primeval jungle. Meetumbo was cured of his erectile dysfunction in just 2 hours after the great healer rubbed his healing salve over his member, stroking it violently while chanting in harmonious tongues.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: xFrockx]
#7675872 - 11/24/07 08:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Uh, yeah. Funny. I don't know about you, but I am definitly a fan of perpetuating racist stereotypes and misinformation, not to mention missing the point completely!
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7675986 - 11/24/07 08:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yay for homeopathy, the biggest crock ever.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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I'm not going to argue about homeopathy, but it is undeniable that medicines do not have to be extracted from the plant source, or synthesized, to be effective. Herbal medicine works. For example, unprocessed opium and laudanum effectively kill pain.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7676080 - 11/24/07 08:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Whether extracted or not, all medicines need to be standardized to know exactly how much to administer. Standardization is impossible without modern methods of measurement. Non-extracted medicines also contain many other chemicals that may or may not be beneficial.
How many folks here drive far into the night and walk into the forest to grab a handful of white willow bark when they have a mild fever or headache? Extraction is also great for storage, convenience and portability. Don't know how any rational person can argue against this.
Recent large-scale double-blind tests on echinacea, long purported to help shorten the length of colds, have shown no effect whatsoever.
Yay herbs!
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7676091 - 11/24/07 09:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm not going to argue about homeopathy,
Smart move!
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