Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Capsules   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
The Church of Modern Medicine *DELETED*
    #7666605 - 11/22/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by LunarEclipse

Reason for deletion: ama



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #7666931 - 11/22/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Except there are objective data supporting the achievements of modern medicine.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


Edited by badchad (11/22/07 04:56 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevaportrail
upandaway
Male


Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 121
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: badchad]
    #7667461 - 11/22/07 04:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That's definitely a new take at medicine. It's true that many people have blind faith in their doctors, I was one of them and it didn't go so well. It's painful to see others putting all sorts of pills in themselves, and I can't object because I'm not "the doctor."

Modern medicine has accomplished great things, but I'd like to know what you think if we add Antidepressants into this picture Lunar has painted for us. Salvation? yea right


--------------------
and the hippos were boiled in their tanks


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: vaportrail]
    #7667817 - 11/22/07 06:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I like how they give people death sentences, and instead of trying to improve the quality of what little life they have left, they entice them with vain hopes of living longer, or "beating the cancer" which entails tens of thousands of dollars of treatment and sickness.
Frankly, I have yet to ever know of someone who is a cancer "survivor" that didnt have a lapse and eventually die from the second go round.

"Ah, I see here, you can either change your diet, enjoy life, spend time with your family for the next 2 years that you will live, or you can have all your hair fall out, be drugged or violently ill when you are awake.... and let me tell you that choice 2 is the only "honorable" thing to do... you should try to beat cancer, because just living out the rest of your life and coming to terms with death is a cowards way out... sign here".


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7667956 - 11/22/07 07:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I appreciate modern medicine for it's efficacy in emergency situations. If I lose a finger the first place I'm going is the hospital. Last spring I got pneumonia to the degree where it may have been life threatening, and they did what had to be done (the most intense antibiotics available, and lots of iv fluids to hydrate me.) But better than that is prevention. I wouldn't have gotten pneumonia if I'd been much more careful to eat well, take lots of vitamin C, and take immune supporting herbs on a constistent basis. I'm more careful this year and so far I've only had one mild cold when by now I'd usually be in the midst of my second brutal bout of illness. I think it's really important that people are more aware of thier bodies and more aware of alternative treatments.

I also think that it's ridiculous that the accepted attitude in western medicine is that if you are not experiencing acute illness, you are healthy. Marginal and compromised health is considered "normal" so long as there are no severe symptoms.

I also really hate how many doctors have the attitude that they should be in charge of your health. They don't explain things in technical terms to thier patients, assuming they won't get it, and act like we should all just trust thier judgement. Now I'm happy to trust my doctor's judgement, so long as they explain and justify it to me and tell me straight up, in the most detailed of terms, exactly what leads them to make the judgement. I also require them to listen to my concerns and take my views regarding health seriously. I have been laughed at for telling doctors that I take immune supporting herbs. As if medicine only works when it's stripped out of it's source, isolated and synthesized. :rolleyes:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTheCow
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,790
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7668097 - 11/22/07 08:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I know many cancer survivors, so I do not know what you mean unless you live under the sea, with crabs and whatnot. Is that where you live? Among the crabs?

To all who do not like modern medicine, big deal, don't use it. I could care less. I don't see why a post is necessary. If you get a disease, or an infection, or cancer, or aids, go see some guy with plants, I bet that'll do the trick. It's really irrelevant to me.

Edit: Also I don't know what you guys are even talking about. I see the doctor extremely infrequently, so he doesn't prescribe me some complex health plan involving drugs as this thread seems to be implying. Just don't be a tool and freak out constantly and go to the doctor. If I have the flu, I know I have the flu I don't need to go to a doctor. If I have a large lump growing on my balls, then I will go to the doctor. I go of course for a checkup every once in a while to make sure my body hasn't fallen apart but I don't ever recall him giving me a list of drugs to take to appease the drug companies.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: TheCow]
    #7668191 - 11/22/07 08:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think you missed the point of my post. Every single person I have known that "beat" cancer had a relapse.... meaning that basically it staved off cancer.
Off course, there are those people that found a lump very early, or found something with very premature growth, and it was able to be cut out.... those people I guess call themselves "survivors"... but not really.

I think every one here has said at one point (besides me, but consider this it) that they do appreciate what advances modern medicine has made. but that doesnt really justify anything that they do. How long can you keep saying "we cured polio" when pressed for justification of questionable practices?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTheCow
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,790
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7672373 - 11/23/07 08:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

All I'm saying is, just simply do not use modern medicine. It's not really a problem for me, and it does not appear to be a problem for you.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: TheCow]
    #7672400 - 11/23/07 08:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That's kind of like saying "if you don't like something about this country, than get out." Silly. Thinking critically is important.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: TheCow]
    #7672691 - 11/23/07 09:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheCow said:
All I'm saying is, just simply do not use modern medicine. It's not really a problem for me, and it does not appear to be a problem for you.




are you in med school? because you have that essence of arrogance in your text that reminds me so much of the "its DOCTOR so-and-so" type.
Doctors think they are so elite... they truly believe that their job is the most important one in the world.

but to get back to your post, I dont really use "modern medicine". Recently I had to get my foot cut open because of a staph infection..... that i got from visiting someone in the hospital.
so... you figure that one out.
Up until that point I had never used "modern medicine" for years and years.... so much that I honestly cant remember the last time I had to use it.
I sliced my foot open 8 years ago and had to get stitches, but that really isnt modern.
I broke and dislocated my pinky toe, and the doctor numbed it and then used a Bic pen to bend it back in place and then taped it to my other toe.

I find most often that using modern medicine forces you to keep using modern medicine. "well sir, your grandfathers hip replacement went fine, but he caught pneumonia and died". Score one for us since we did send him to the grave with a modern medical miracle.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #7675250 - 11/24/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Are you still a member?

My parents were card carrying members and taught me to be one. I still carry the card and make donations to the Church and even have a $ 2500/year deductible for the privilege.

"The Miracles of Modern Medicine" have been taught to every kid over the last 100 years. Even the word miracles has religious overtones and explains the faith and worship in Church members.

I am having suspicions that my Church may be a cult. Like any cult member, I have found deprogramming to be hard. It is made worse by the "in order to be healthy you have to have a flu shot yearly" crowd. Watching TV with 3 miracle drug ads per hour certainly doesn't help. And I think I have a going problem and a restless leg.

http://www.whale.to/b/hoax1.html

16. Vaccination as sacrament. If you still believe in vaccination then you could be a fully paid up (covert or otherwise) member of what Robert Mendelsohn MD called the "Church of Modern Medicine."

"When religion was strong and science weak, men mistook magic for medicine, now when science is strong and religion weak, men mistake medicine for magic"-----Thomas Szasz

The Shadow government has created an atheist society through the media and the poor quality of spiritual teachings from the establishment churches. As Maslow pointed out in his hierarchy of needs (also John Lilly in his book Simulations of God), just because we don't believe in God doesn't stop our desire to believe in something, and that need has been cleverly exploited by the Atheists who run the world. Allopathic medicine has been cleverly set up as a crypto-religion using the authority ploy with God as Modern Medicine, and vaccination as the Holy Sacrament.

It is a false idol. If you have a covert attachment to something like the Medical Industry on a deep level as a God substitute then it is hard to give that up, and all sorts of denial come up to block that realisation.

"For a paediatrician to attack what has become the "bread and butter" of paediatric practice is equivalent to a priest denying the infallibility of the pope.-------Robert Mendelsohn, MD

You are encouraged to believe that if you doubt one medicine, vaccination, you are doubting everything, but in fact, you can give up vaccination and survive meltdown. I still use an allopath, I just avoid taking most allopathic medicines if possible.

"Vaccines have become sacraments of our faith in biotechnology in the sense that 1) their efficacy and safety are widely seen as self-evident and needing no further proof; 2) they are given automatically to everyone, by force if necessary, but always in the name of the public good; and 3) they ritually initiate our loyal participation in the medical enterprise as a whole. They celebrate our right and power as a civilization to manipulate biological processes ad libitum and for profit, without undue concern for or even any explicit concept of the total health of the populations about to be subjected to them."---Richard Moskowitz M.D http://www.whale.to/vaccines/god.html

"Physicians have taken the place of priests; vaccination plays the same initiatory role as baptism, and is accompanied by the same threats and fears; the search for health has replaced the quest for salvation; the fight against disease has replaced the fight against sin; eradication of viruses has taken the place of exorcising demons; the hope of physical immortality (cloning, genetic engineering) has been substituted for the hope of eternal life; pills have replaced the sacrament of bread and wine; donations to cancer research take precedence over donations to the church; a hypothetical universal vaccine could save humanity from all its illnesses, as the Saviour has saved the world from all its sins; the medical power has become the government’s ally, as was the Catholic Church in the past; "charlatans” are persecuted today as "heretics” were yesterday; dogmatism rules out promising alternative medical theories; the same absence of individual responsibility is now found in medicine, as previously in the Christian religion; patients are alienated from their bodies, as sinners used to be from their souls."---Olivier Clerc




I agree. Modern medicine is a crap shoot because modern medicine will not look at things that don't make them money. This is criminal and so IMO they are not to be trusted. I am very careful about using their services and don't believe what they say with out doing some research of my own. They are pretty good with mechanical things but mostly thats where it ends for me. Learning about a health promoting lifestyle and living it is the key to staying out of their greedy little clutches.


Edited by Icelander (11/24/07 05:04 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: Icelander]
    #7675467 - 11/24/07 06:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Learning about a health promoting lifestyle...




One of us eats junk food and one of us follows a 'healthy' diet. I will let the readers guess who has been sick this week. :blush:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7675488 - 11/24/07 06:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
That's kind of like saying "if you don't like something about this country, than get out."




That makes sense. It is like saying if the sun bothers you, get out of the sun; or if your current living situation is not pleasant, then get out of it.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7675552 - 11/24/07 06:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Sure. But where I live, going to the doctor is free; seeking alternative treatment is expensive. So if you need help with a problem, you either have to see the dude who will kick you out of his office after 3 minutes with a prescription, or shell out the bucks (that you may or may not have) for someone who will actually take the time to help you holistically.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 15 hours
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7675647 - 11/24/07 07:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I totally agree, modern medicine is a crock. I'd much rather trust my shaman to give me the best bear bile and herbs he can find in the primeval jungle. Meetumbo was cured of his erectile dysfunction in just 2 hours after the great healer rubbed his healing salve over his member, stroking it violently while chanting in harmonious tongues.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: xFrockx]
    #7675872 - 11/24/07 08:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Uh, yeah. Funny. I don't know about you, but I am definitly a fan of perpetuating racist stereotypes and misinformation, not to mention missing the point completely! :thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7675986 - 11/24/07 08:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yay for homeopathy, the biggest crock ever.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7676041 - 11/24/07 08:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not going to argue about homeopathy, but it is undeniable that medicines do not have to be extracted from the plant source, or synthesized, to be effective. Herbal medicine works. For example, unprocessed opium and laudanum effectively kill pain.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7676080 - 11/24/07 08:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Whether extracted or not, all medicines need to be standardized to know exactly how much to administer. Standardization is impossible without modern methods of measurement. Non-extracted medicines also contain many other chemicals that may or may not be beneficial.

How many folks here drive far into the night and walk into the forest to grab a handful of white willow bark when they have a mild fever or headache? Extraction is also great for storage, convenience and portability. Don't know how any rational person can argue against this.

Recent large-scale double-blind tests on echinacea, long purported to help shorten the length of colds, have shown no effect whatsoever.

Yay herbs! :cheer:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7676091 - 11/24/07 09:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I'm not going to argue about homeopathy,




Smart move! :thumbup:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7676273 - 11/24/07 10:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Herbal preparations can be standardized, and many of the better companies offer standardized products. Some herbal medicines are effective only because they are a complex whole, the various chemicals working together to effect the body. There are some medicines that cannot be broken down into thier components as they efficacy is the whole. I'm not arguing against extraction, as tinctures and salves are extractions, but rather the isolation of specific chemicals.

Your scenario of a person driving into the night to find white willow bark is silly. Willow isn't a particularly rare species, and it can be gathered from convenient locations. Personally, when my favourite medicines are in season I make the point to gather a supply for the coming months. Sometimes I crap out and forget, and then I just buy it at a grocery store a few blocks away. If someone wanted to use willow for headaches, they could easily buy a standardized tincture at thier local grocery store.

As for echinacea, I heard of a study that demonstrated that it was not effective as a preventative measure, but once one was already sick, it was effective at mitigating and shortening the duration of the cold. I've never been that big on echinacea myself, as I find other herbs more effective. Astragalus, siberian ginseng and goldenseal are awesome. I've been consistent with my immuno-stumulant tincture this season, and the rate of my colds has seriously declined.

The way some shady companies promote certain herbs as wonder cures is shitty, and irritating. But this does not mean that herbal medicine on the whole is a hoax.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7676347 - 11/24/07 10:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Please tell me how you think extracts are standardized.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7676369 - 11/24/07 10:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This article is critical of standardized herbal products, and makes a good case against it. But it explains 2 ways the process occurs. I admit, I didn't look up the article before my last post, and if I had I would have made a different argument.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 15 hours
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7676404 - 11/24/07 11:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Oh, you are a fan of it? Because I'm not. I'm sorry you didn't "get the point" that what I was saying was a joke. Did you miss that somewhere between those furious strokes?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: xFrockx]
    #7676428 - 11/24/07 11:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I completely got that it was a joke, it just struck me as a distasteful one.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7677098 - 11/25/07 07:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Learning about a health promoting lifestyle...




One of us eats junk food and one of us follows a 'healthy' diet. I will let the readers guess who has been sick this week. :blush:




So I got a cold. And I am about over it in three days. I get about a cold a year and I haven't been to a doctor for treatment in about eight. My last doctor threatened to dump me because I wouldn't at least come in for a physical. I gave her this quote. "If there is something wrong with me I don't want to know about it because I'll worry about it and make it worse" All most all my illness is mental and doctors can't help me there.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7677105 - 11/25/07 07:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Please tell me how you think extracts are standardized.




Some are and some aren't. The ones that are, are first made into a tincture and then the alcohol is dried off. At that point what is left is measured for potency and then put into capsules.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: Icelander]
    #7677410 - 11/25/07 10:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

At that point what is left is measured for potency




The potency measurement is a highly modern technique unavailable to herbalists of old. Damn science! :hissyfit:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: Icelander]
    #7677427 - 11/25/07 10:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

So I got a cold. And I am about over it in three days.




Whatever you say, Mr. Defensive. :rolleyes: *Shmoopy lights up a cig to go with his beer and cheesepuffs*


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7677481 - 11/25/07 10:42 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
This article is critical of standardized herbal products, and makes a good case against it. But it explains 2 ways the process occurs. I admit, I didn't look up the article before my last post, and if I had I would have made a different argument.




Which, of course, is why I asked what you 'thought' it entailed. I was hoping you would respond without research, but hey - you learned something new.

Despite the article's nonsensical disclaimer, standardization or chromatographic measurement IS necessary in order to treat any illness. There is a clear dosage response to any medicine, whether herbal or modern.

So herbalists can extract some 90% of the weight of the plant through drying (water loss) and that is cool, but to go further and remove unnecessary lipids, wax, chlorophyll and other non-essential compounds; i.e. is somehow antithetical to healing, is just another mistaken belief.

Many of you 'back to nature' types seem to be conflating the greed of big business to the efficacy of purified or refined products. This is an emotional and not a rational position.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7678230 - 11/25/07 02:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

At that point what is left is measured for potency




The potency measurement is a highly modern technique unavailable to herbalists of old. Damn science! :hissyfit:




I don't have a problem with the scientific method, but I do have a problem with assuming the knowledge developed by people prior to the 19th century was superstitious or false simply because they didn't have access to modern methods and technologies. Even apes use the empirical process to learn and discover the world around them. People have used herbal medicines for thousands of years because they are effective.

It is true that in full blown, acute illness, pharmaceuticals are often appropriate. When I was in the hospital with pneumonia last spring, I was certainly happy to take antibiotics. Good ole' government paid $70 a bag for my iv moxifloxacin. :thumbup: This year, I'm not getting pneumonia because I'm building my immune system with tonic herbs that promote my body's capacity to defend itself. I got pneumonia because I was weak and I didn't take care of myself. I am grateful to have had access to the emergency services of the modern medical system, but I wouldn't have needed to fall back on them if I'd sucked it up and taken better care of myself in the first place. The immune support tincture I'm taking right now is seeing me through the healthiest I've ever been. I'm better able to cope with physical and emotional stressors that I've ever been. It's awesome.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7678319 - 11/25/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Traditional clinical herbalists use herbs not so much to treat named diseases, but to implement a shift in underlying physiological processes so the body can heal itself. The body’s complex processes can be affected by herbs, drugs, foods, emotional experiences and therapeutic exercises. This alone delineates a fundamental difference between wholistic herbal medicine and the phytotherapeutic or symptomatic drug-like approach of phytotherapy. While neither is fully exclusive of the other, the difference is in the intention of the final therapeutic goal.




This is from the article, I'm not sure if you bothered to read the whole thing. It isn't a matter of conflating refined drugs with big-business greed, it is a matter of having a different concept of health and wellness, and how it is achieved.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7680018 - 11/25/07 09:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

damnit! why did this thread have to get hijacked by the homeopathic/herbal discussion.

BTW, I want a response to my last post.

I left off make snide comments about the prevalence of staph in hospitals as well as the amount of people that contract pneumonia.... and let me add bed sores here.

While I have no real opinion on homeopathy, atleast not in the pro sense, I hope that people dont see that as the only alternative. I think that seems to be the biggest problem with the medical issue.
There is either knowledgable malpractice or quackery... depending on which side of the fence you want to view the subject from.
An alternative is that you dont believe what the drug commercials or NEWS channel 3 says about your presupposed illness, and you dont believe the homeopathic/herbal remedy cure-all faux percentages.
Herb X has shown in scientific studies has shown to white blood cells in the human body!
Everyone is a used car salesman trying to push their product by leaving out the shortcomings and overstating the positives with catch phrases and buzz words.

they both have merits in certain sectors, but there is no single medical approach that is the best choice for the entire spectrum of physical maladies.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7680055 - 11/25/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I completely agree with you. There are many alternatives, including the reform of modern medical practices.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine *DELETED* [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7681236 - 11/26/07 10:17 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by LunarEclipse

Reason for deletion: comm nonono



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #7681336 - 11/26/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Lunar, so you have a problem with people seeking help from someone more knowledgeable when they have a problem? If the gas lines in your house were leaking, would you try to fix them yourself or would you call the gas company?

I get your point if you mean that we need to be more aware of our health and take care of ourselves, but sometimes this involves taking more powerful medicine. When I take herbal medicine, I choose it on my own. I apprenticed with a local herbalist a few years ago, and have been studying it of my own volition since I was rather young, so I have a reasonable amount of knowledge to know what is appropriate to take for what reasons. I know what works for me because I have tried it and observed the effect it has on me. It doesn't get much more independent and empowered than that. I agree that we should not blindly trust 'professionals' with our bodies, but that we should educate ourselves. Sometimes professionals have the knowledge that we need and they are a valuable resource. I will take thier opinion, but if it is wrong for me I will disregard it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Capsules   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* My thoughts on new age medicine. Droz 882 15 03/26/04 03:26 AM
by fresh313
* Ram Dass on Sacramental Psychedelics Anonymous 1,896 16 12/20/03 04:42 PM
by Anonymous
* Church Universal and Triumphant Viveka 1,033 11 09/29/03 05:53 AM
by gnrm23
* absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the
( 1 2 3 all )
ArchDruid 5,798 52 01/04/02 02:50 AM
by WaktSniper
* Drug Use in Modern Society
( 1 2 all )
DigitalDuality 5,185 30 05/25/04 08:28 PM
by Redo
* The 'forgiving' church
( 1 2 3 all )
SeussA 3,391 41 05/02/04 09:41 PM
by DankBluntZ
* The corrupted church of today.
( 1 2 all )
HidingInPlainSight 3,875 26 02/19/04 12:24 PM
by Strumpling
* Children Brought Up In Church Are Seldom Brought In Court
( 1 2 all )
blink 1,902 24 08/12/04 08:37 AM
by j_db69

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
2,843 topic views. 0 members, 11 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.024 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 12 queries.