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OfflineWScott
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I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more..
    #7620048 - 11/10/07 09:13 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineHyper_Panda_GO
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: WScott]
    #7620054 - 11/10/07 09:16 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Summarize, I don't feel like watching and I haven't payed attention to him for some time


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: Hyper_Panda_GO]
    #7620068 - 11/10/07 09:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

i actually agree with alot of what he said in that video.

im not a good summarizer HPG, just watch it. its only a couple of minutes long.


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: WScott]
    #7620097 - 11/10/07 09:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I don't like the emphasis on religion during the first half of his speech. Any leader (including America's own), that so closely intertwines religious ideals with the administration of government worries me. While there are certainly positive aspects that may be grasped through religious teachings, there unfortunately is also a lot of blinding faith that is just too damn dangerous when attempting to govern a peaceful and fair nation. But indeed, in this particular speech, especially the later half, I believe President Ahmadinejad speaks a lot of truth. Of course -- he is a politician, and politicians are generally good public orators even if their actions may not support their words.


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InvisibleClean
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: WScott]
    #7620098 - 11/10/07 09:37 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

He's lying just as badly as bush is lying. America is the only problem in the world?
Maybe if you believe everything you're supposed to.
You're not supposed to talk about the international corporations and bankers that actually own and run everything and are using EVERY country in the world as debt slaves.

He does speak some truth as any con artist will in order to hook you.
He definitely tugs on people's heartstrings by invoking history and religion.

He's serving the purpose of dividing people and fanning flames for a religious military conflict.


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: WScott]
    #7620103 - 11/10/07 09:39 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ahmadinejad's a pretty sensible guy. It's unfortunate that he's constantly misrepresented in Western media, where no one questions whether the translation provided was accurate or not.


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OfflineVisionsToReality
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7620110 - 11/10/07 09:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Why would you respect anyone who a) denies the holocaust and b) intends to wipe countries off the face of the planet? Fuck that shitbag.


--------------------
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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: VisionsToReality]
    #7620114 - 11/10/07 09:44 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

He doesn't deny the holocaust and never said he wanted to wipe any country off the map.

to quote myself,
Quote:

It's unfortunate that he's constantly misrepresented in Western media, where no one questions whether the translation provided was accurate or not.




I'm amazed with how easily gullible such a large chunk of the population is.


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7620119 - 11/10/07 09:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
Ahmadinejad's a pretty sensible guy. It's unfortunate that he's constantly misrepresented in Western media, where no one questions whether the translation provided was accurate or not.



Well, since I don't speak Arabic I'll have to trust the translations. And anyone who denies that the holocaust happened is anything but sensible! Are the translations on this one wrong? (no sarcasm here, I'd really like to know)


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OfflineToTheSummit
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7620122 - 11/10/07 09:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
He doesn't deny the holocaust and never said he wanted to wipe any country off the map.



Sources? Whose translation do I trust when I don't speak the language?


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #7620133 - 11/10/07 09:53 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ahmadinejad on the holocaust: "Granted this happened, but what does it have to do with the Palestinian people?"

The "Wipe Israel off the map" comment was a purposeful mistranslation which is used as propaganda. There is no idiom in Persian for "wipe off the map," so it would have been impossible for him to say.
Ahmadinejad was actually quoting someone else, and what he said was "The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #7620138 - 11/10/07 09:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ToTheSummit said:
Quote:

Disco Cat said:
He doesn't deny the holocaust and never said he wanted to wipe any country off the map.



Sources? Whose translation do I trust when I don't speak the language?




You apply common sense. How does a person hear that someone in another language said these ridiculous comments and not doubt them? If you can't speak the language why would you believe a nonsense statement, shouldn't it be more natural to disbelieve it until it can be proven otherwise?


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #7620146 - 11/10/07 09:56 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Here are his exact words. Apply them to Google and see what you come up with:

een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad.


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OfflineVisionsToReality
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: Disco Cat]
    #7620156 - 11/10/07 10:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

where is a credible source that says the western media is portraying him wrong?


--------------------
Life is one big road with lots of signs,
So when you're ridin' through the ruts,
Don't you complicate your mind.

Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy
Don't bury your thoughts,
Put your vision to reality, yeah!


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: VisionsToReality]
    #7620177 - 11/10/07 10:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

what is credible? credible to you and i may not be credible to the government, vice versa, and what may be credible to westerners may not be credible to the rest of the world.


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OfflineWScott
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: VisionsToReality]
    #7620185 - 11/10/07 10:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

VisionsToReality said:
where is a credible source that says the western media is portraying him wrong?




For instance, when the American media targeted Ahmadinejad's comment on homosexuality not existing in Iran. I can't tell you what he actually meant by his statement, which was to the effect of 'In Iran, we don't have homosexuality like you have it in America', but he didn't deny the existence of homosexuals in Iran like CNN and FOX would want you to believe.

From the TV I did watch that covered his visit to the University of Columbia, I can say that I know that they covered far more of this 'homosexuality issue' than what he actually said in the rest of his speech. If you read the transcript (there is a thread with it in Political Discussion), he comes across as a very intelligent man. The concept of intelligence was not portrayed at all in the media.

To do with this religious aspect of his speech in the video (about the Prophets), I do agree that religion is a very useful tool in divide, conquer and control - but only when it is manipulated to fit the agenda of the one(s) seeking to take control. The majority (if not all) of the major scriptures teach, more or less, the same core values and principals. Ironically, it is these principals that are NOT being followed by those that are giving religion a bad name.


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Edited by WScott (11/10/07 10:20 PM)


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Offlineundergrounder
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: ToTheSummit]
    #7620193 - 11/10/07 10:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

He claims he was misinterpreted on denying the holocaust. He tried to make his position clearer in his speech at Columbia University:

Quote:

PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Thank you very much for your question. I am an academic, and you are as well. Can you argue that researching a phenomenon is finished forever, done? Can we close the books for good on a historical event? There are different perspectives that come to light after every research is done. Why should we stop research at all? Why should we stop the progress of science and knowledge? You shouldn't ask me why I'm asking questions. You should ask yourselves why you think that it's questionable.
Why do you want to stop the progress of science and research? Do you ever take what's known as absolute in physics? We had principles in mathematics that were granted to be absolute in mathematics for over 800 years, but new science has gotten rid of those absolutism, gotten -- forward other different logics of looking at mathematics, and sort of turned the way we look at it as a science altogether after 800 years. So we must allow researchers, scholars to investigate into everything, every phenomenon -- God, universe, human beings, history, and civilization. Why should we stop that?
I'm not saying that it didn't happen at all. This is not (the ?) judgment that I'm passing here. I said in my second question, granted this happened, what does it have to do with the Palestinian people? This is a serious question.

...

-- well, given this historical event, if it is a reality, we need to still question whether the Palestinian people should be paying for it or not. After all, it happened in Europe. The Palestinian people had no role to play in it. So why is it that the Palestinian people are paying the price of an event they had nothing to do with?
The Palestinian people didn't commit any crime. They had no role to play in World War II. They were living with the Jewish communities and the Christian communities in peace at the time. They didn't have any problems. And today, too, Jews, Christians and Muslims live in brotherhood all over the world, in many parts of the world. They don't have any serious problems.
But why is it that the Palestinians should pay a price, innocent Palestinians? For 5 million people to remain displaced or refugees of war for 60 years are -- is this not a crime? Is asking about these crimes a crime by itself? Why should an academic, myself, face insults when asking questions like this? Is this what you call freedom and upholding the freedom of thought?





http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/202820.php

Read the whole transcript.

He's not a radical by any stretch of the imagination. His main crime is he says one thing to his own people and one thing to the West. But he's having to play to two total extreme points of view, trying to remain the President of Iran, while also trying to seem reasonable to the West. -- What he really thinks is hard to know, but pretty much irrelevant. He's just the president, he doesn't have the power to declare war, power to control the police, the media, basic services or anything. He's just middle management. The leader of Iran is the 'Supreme Leader' (Ali Khamenei). THIS is the guy you should be interested in.

Remember Iran is the 18th largest country in the world, it has a population of 70 million people. It has one of the oldest cultures in the world, they hold one of the largest oil reserves in the world, it has one of the largest armies in the world. Given their position in the world and the constant threat of US invasion, you have to wonder if they actually deserve to be nuclear capable. They're not perfect, sure. They are a tightly controlled country, they have serious human rights problems but on those scales they're fairly comparable to China.

Live and Let Live.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: WScott]
    #7620204 - 11/10/07 10:20 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

He is leader of an Islamic theocracy. Iran is a horribly repressed country. How can you guys take anything he says seriously? I believe I heard on the history channel that Ahmadinejad is a member of a Muslim sect that believes in a prophecy that the world is coming to an end and that its their job to instigate a world war. Has anyone else heard that or do I have a terrible memory?


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InvisibleDisco Cat
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: WScott]
    #7620213 - 11/10/07 10:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ahmadinejad misquoted over gays in Iran: aide

LONDON, October 11 (IranMania) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was misrepresented by Western media when he was quoted saying there were no gays in Iran, and actually meant there were not so many as in the United States, a presidential aide said, Reuters reported.

Addressing New York's Columbia University last month, Ahmadinejad replied to a question about gays in the Islamic Republic saying: "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country."

Speaking through a translator, he also said: "In Iran we don't have this phenomenon."

The remarks drew widespread criticism in the West.

"What Ahmadinejad said was not a political answer. He said that, compared to American society, we don't have many homosexuals," presidential media adviser Mohammad Kalhor said.

Kalhor told Reuters that because of historical, religious and cultural differences homosexuality was less common in Iran and the Islamic world than in the West.


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You wouldn't believe the argument I got into in the Politics forum over this one. To me it was obvious that he was making a comparison and not actually saying there were no gays, but to everyone else there he was obviously a wacko who wants to wipe Israel off the map, and believes there are no gays in Iran, and needs to be brought to justice. Diploid even neg rated me for arguing in his defence over the gay issue. Amazing, eh? This is why situations like Iraq happen. People refuse to think, and shut off their brain in favour of having a target to hate.


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: I'm starting to respect Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more and more.. [Re: robbyberto]
    #7620216 - 11/10/07 10:24 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

we are all different. we are not all going to agree on ways of life. their ways of life have worked for thousands of years. it is in our best interest to leave them be.

and i dont know about you, but i think our government may beat anyone to starting another world war.


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