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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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What, if any, impact do you believe oversight of communication lines have on speech?
In a community such as this, especially this forum, people are brought together by like-mindedness, or at the very least, a commaon agenda. I can understand a need for rules that ensure civil communication, or at the very least ensure that each voice has equal opportunity to be heard and doesnt degrade into asinine insults. Do you guys believe that this forum should only allow philosophical or spiritual discussion? meaning that we should prohibit any discussion about the actual forum itself, or discussion about members who are really only known in this forum. How many times have you started to make a thread in here and stopped because you werent sure that it "outlined a philosophical/spiritual topic"? Or how many times have you had to place (or read through) a paragraph long disclaimer about how "they felt this was the best forum for this thread" or "I hope it belongs in here"? I like to think of this place much like a Roman forum, where we can play teacher, student, comic relief and/or soapbox shouter. As it stands right now, I couldnt (hypothetically) make a thread about having a 2012 party at orgoneConclulsions house, serious or not.... because it isnt philosophical or spiritual.... rather, that thread would then be moved to the pub or OTD where no one knows who Orgone is, nor would they know what the hell the point of the thread would be since there is no reference. It might as well be moved to a completely different forum outside of the shroomery. Are we prepared to say that threads like that shouldnt exist? have we gotten that serious about our philosophy and spirituality? and do you think that it is wise to make 2 people the arbiter of what "outlines a philosophical/spiritual topic"? Maybe we are putting these people in an awkward position, because we ask them to regulate this forum based on a set of pretty subjective, if not rather vague, rules. here is a nice quote from timothy leary that I find applies to this situation in more than one way. Quote: There is more than one way to deliver philosophy, get your point across/understood, or gathering an audience. There was a thread of mine that we were (IMO) deprived of because it was delivered in a real time fashion. Now maybe, it was completey fucking retarded, and I am highly delusional in thinking that it had worth, but we definitely have never edited or moved threads based solely on that. My thread was about the opposite end of the extreme concept that is often discussed called "ego loss", which would be egomania. Now, the thread did not take on a conventional format, but nonetheless, more than one person was heavily involved and discussing it in the unspoken terms set forth by the thread itself. Maybe our rules are too harsh. Maybe our moderators interpretation of these rules greatly differs from my own. I dont know. What I do know, is that this forum is becoming a boat that has sprung a leak in the river of suck, and I believe that one cause of this is the impact that oversight has upon freedom of speech/expression. and IM sure that some might say "well why dont you make some threads that dont suck then".... well, I feel I have, but they have been moved or deleted... so until I feel unrestricted by this type of overbearing oversight I will continue in this fashion of discourse or get banned.
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Decadent Flower Magnate Registered: 09/20/05 Posts: 8,775 Last seen: 3 days, 15 hours |
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Quote: ![]() I am kind of for whatever anyone wants to post in here - be it cryptic, rambling, delusional, a one-liner. It's just the Net, after all.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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exactly! P&S isnt a "place" to discuss philosophy, but rather a place for people that like to discuss Philosophy and spirituality to discuss mostly anything, but in a philosophical manner.
For example, if someone is haveing relationship problems, they usually go to the pub, or the health forum. If they like the type of person usually found in the pub, they will respect the answers that are given more, and probably relate to them better. If they want some empathy and maybe someone to relate a similar experience and what helped them get through it, then they post in the health forum.... but on those rare occasions where someone has a spiritual or philosophical problem involved with their relationship problems, or merely want a philosophical/spiritual type answer, they [pst in here..... but that thread would get moved most likely. Did you notice in the split, the topics of the two threads (PS and MRP) didnt drastically change, maybe one was slightly more "logical/scientific" than the other, but really it was a split between two types of people: those that wanted to talk about DMT elves and astral travel and not have anyone argue with them, and those that wanted to have good debates on philosophical/spiritual issues/topics.
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Registered: 10/01/06 Posts: 2,839 |
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I don't mind relatively off-topic content in P&S so long is it has content of substantial worth.
Not all of the things you might like to discuss with P&S members in particular relate to P&S, so perhaps a degree of leniency would be nice on occasion. Off-topic threads are regularly permitted when begun by members with high post-counts, which to an extent is respectable considering the time they've spent here. I don't think we should be Nazi's about it. edit: reply-to -------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return. Edited by elbisivni (11/05/07 06:36 PM)
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Stranger Registered: 12/16/04 Posts: 11,123 Loc: Texas |
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i think that almost any post could be claimed to be philosophical to some degree
the deciding factor is a human being who is at least as biased as the rest of us i do not see a need for this kind of interference, do you? the ignore user feature achieves the same intended result
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Sexy.Butt.McDanger Registered: 03/12/02 Posts: 24,855 Loc: Pandurn Last seen: 1 year, 12 days |
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Quote: I honestly don't think that there is too much oversight over discourse in this forum. The topics of philosophy and spirituality are broad, and the qualifier is that there is discussion that consists of exchanging ideas related to these topics, as guided by the creator of the thread. This isn't strict, but clearly there are times when a thread just is more appropriate for another forum. P&S isn't a community unto itself, and it doesn't make sense for it to be so. This is the Shroomery, and forums are intended to be aligned towards different types and manners of discussion. It isn't as though it is sliced so precisely; P&S is easy-going and relaxed, and a community spirit is encouraged. Sometimes a "community-spirit" thread might remain in P&S, or it might be moved to The Pub with a link to follow. The difference simply lies dependent upon how pertinent to P&S it is. Quote: The majority of five pages were off-topic. Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: It is why we have an Off-Topic Discussion forum. As I told you when you expressed concerns over it being moved, regarding the on-topic original post and one you posted after it had been moved, by all means, create a thread that is dedicated to the discussion of those ideas. I have limited ability to seperate pages of off-topic banter from on-topic discussion. In this instance, the small amount of wheat was moved with the unbelievable amount of chaff, which happened mostly due to your intention to have it as an off-topic discussion. Quote: Exactly. While this forum has with it a relaxed environment, it is established as a place where philosophical/spiritual ideas are discussed. There will be extremes that arise that will just designate a thread as being more suitable for another forum. That is moderation, and that is why there are quite a number of forums that cater to special interests, underneath the umbrella of being Shroomerites. If there wasn't purpose and intention instilled within each forum, resulting from the types of discussions that Shroomerites wish to engage in, then there would be less "bringing together" of like-minded individuals and common agendas. Quote: It might indirectly be a split between two groups of people, but the actual point at which the difference lies is the fact that some people wish to discuss philosophical/spiritual ideas in critical, open discussion, and some people wish to not debate their ideas in order to express them, and still feel that they have merit in being expressed. Quote: No it wouldn't. The vast majority of threads that do end up getting moved have it happen, not because of the specific topic that was being proposed, but because of the manners in which it was being discussed, or a lack of intention in discussing it in the manners that P&S are intended for. I have no clue how you have drawn this conclusion that such a thread would be moved, as I have personally engaged in lively debate in such threads in this forum. Perfect Example Quote: I can think of several specific examples of threads that you have created that were perfectly in accordance with the forum rules, and have remained. oversight of speech Do you ever just listen to the notes? Funkadelic gets deep Ana-al Haqq and Mansur Al-Hallaj uncertainty Those are the threads you have created in the last month, not including, of course, the one that was moved to OTD for being entirely off-topic, and 2012 gathering, which was moved to The Pub, with the notice "Reason for move: This thread does not outline a philosophical/spiritual topic. A link remains to its new location in the Pub so P&S goers are free to participate.". Here is a thread that Icelander created recently, All Hallows Eve. It demonstrates quite well the relaxed, community vibe specific to this forum, and, if you notice, the original post contains ruminations on the holiday, and the manners in which it manifests, its spirit, if you will. What follows in the thread is well wishes for the holiday and more reflections on the holiday itself. This is decidedly different than an original post consisting of Quote: Nothing wrong with it, it just doesn't propose any philosophical/spiritual ideas to be discussed, and only relates to the forum in that it slightly refers to a topic that is occasionally discussed, as well as a forum-goer that posts in the forum. Thus, it was moved to The Pub, and a link remained for those who are interested in discussing it in this forum to do so. A review of the thread itself, 2012 gathering, should demonstrate that nothing untoward resulted from this "overbearing oversight". Nothing was lost, visibility in P&S remained until the natural flow of discussion buried the notice, and the discussion of the thread continued forth in the same manner it was outlined to be discussed as. Quote: Revewing the unhypothetical thread regarding that specific topic ( ), it seems quite evident that P&S users followed the discussion into the more suitable forum and continued the discourse unabated. In fact, I note at least one Pub goer who knew who Orgone was even though they very rarely post in this forum, as well as several others that caught onto the point of the thread and contributed as well. If you feel this is "overbearing oversight", I must apologize, because I honestly do not see it as being the case. Quote: If one's intention is to utilize this forum to discuss philosophical/spiritual topics in manners conducive to idea exchange, in open, critical discussion, then there is no problem. This forum is pretty unrestricted and self-regulating. I've addressed specific examples in order to demonstrate this, to ensure that this discussion is not simply unsubstantiated claims, as well as to allow everyone to form their own conclusions. -------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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Where? I've never seen any of your threads that didn't suck.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sexy.Butt.McDanger Registered: 03/12/02 Posts: 24,855 Loc: Pandurn Last seen: 1 year, 12 days |
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It is because the thought police discriminate against him.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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I think he's mentioned that. (about a million times.
)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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I was out of town for the last week or so.
I dont have time to resume this thread right now, but hopefully when I get home tonight I can. and Icelander, dont hate on my threads when you just toss a coin to decide whether you are going to make a thread about Casteneda or fear of death. does that make it jovial still?
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The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
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Did I hurt somebodys feelings? (mission accomplished)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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Quote: I have posted here long enough to know where my posts should go and how to guide or dictate the group of people I want to initiate discourse with. I dont need some arbiter hanging over my shoulder trying to regulate my threads and posts by enforcing subjective rules based on his interpretation of what is philosophical or spiritual. where would the best place be to post a thread about finding books similar to casteneda? It would officially be the literature forum, but that forum is really slow, not many people, and those that are in there have no group cohesion/concensus. You will basically get a different answer in every post. If that thread were to be in this forum, it would be more efficient... better answers, more detailed at least, and more enforced opinions as to why you should read book X. What you explained in your first paragraph seems to support the beuracracy of the system for the sake of the beuracratic system* in favor of efficiant and just plain better discourse. Quote: this is a clique within a community. Granted, I dont come here to discuss anal fisting and go to OTD to discuss transcendental meditation.... but the way it is right now IMO, is that my thread on anal fisting will stay as long as I tie it in to some philosophical question, while my TM thread would be moved from here if I started discussing okinawa coral sand. It is kind of like going to a football game. You have other fans of the team you like, so therefor, you are in their community, and you might even buy some random stranger with your teams colors a beer, but you arent going to discuss anal fisting or TM with them.... you will most likely do that with the people you know that are all sitting next to each other. Also, something that isnt even philosophical or spiritual can somehow blossom into such a discussion. Sometimes, you want to see what people think on something before you deliver a philosophical or spiritual viewpoint. Right now the only format of discourse that is allowed is: thread with P or S topic spelled out in the beginning ---> people making puns or discussing the topic ----> dead thread. we cant talk about how beautiful a sunrise was as it crested over the horizon unless we add "does it make you think how big the world is?" or some similar cliched horseshit. This isnt hollywood, I dont want or need people to spell shit out for me, nor do I like to preempt a concept into peoples heads when discussing philosophical or spiritual stances... it leads to presumption and semantics often. I find the best thing to do is try to present the basic cognition, or event without putting your personal suggestions in it. Sure, a good half of the threads are about a persons own perception of something, but there are many times that I would have liked to begin some discourse with the people of PS without spelling it out for them, and letting them come to their own conclusions or cognitions. Quote: so here is the second subjective point you get to decide upon. So somehow an inside joke regarding a person that only posts in this forum, on a topic that is often discussed in this forum isnt pertinent to this forum? Quote: no they werent. The entire point was the way that thread played out. BTW, half of those quotes werent even from me. How many threads have I seen Icelander and Orgone waste pages with off topic puns, and how many of those threads were moved, locked or edited? I even asked you to move it back and gave you a reason as to why it should be moved back, but you decided to be a dick about it, even after someone else posted in it that reinforced the whole point of the thread. You didnt like the material of the thread, you didnt see it as having merit... well, then I have to say that you are philosophically myopic and dense, because the point was apparent to the other people in that thread and you deprived us of that because you wanted to piss me off. Why was this thread such a danger to this forum? the people that were involved were enjoying it, and the people that werent, didnt read it. When you start dictating what is philosophical/spiritual debate, then you are dictating what is spiritual and philosophical. simple as that. Quote: see, this is where the problem lies. You think that there was only a small amount of philosophical discussion, when almost 90% of it was philosophy in action. The way you are handling this forum is retarding it to only function at or below your philosophical or spiritual comprehension/knowledge. Im not saying that my thread was some earth-shattering philosophical discussion, but we will never know since it was cut short by your myopic judgement. I just dont see why you had to move the thread when people were obviously enjoying it. There was no flaming, everyone was having a good time, but instead you decided to take it into your own hands to be the big kid that steps on the other kids sand castles "because they sucked!". :eyeroll: Quote:Quote: Im not asking that we start allowing scat pics, but everything that goes on in this forum doesnt have to be strictly philosophical or spiritual.... because with the type of people that post in here, it eventually will if discussed long enough. That is the nature of the people in this forum. By simply initiating discussion in PS you are fulfilling a "purpose and intention instilled within" this forum. Have a party at your house, and have 10 rooms with labels on the doors that designate each room for a specific type of discussion.... people in those rooms are going to start talking about different things, as well as come together and form those mini-cliques because they are like minded people, or atleast have intellectual respect for one another, not because they came to talk about the impact of vibrators on third world countries. It is that way in every single forum on this website. Everyone in OTD has a similar personality, just like everyone here has atleast some facet of their personality that is indicitive of a pretentious philosophy major or yogi who thinks they have it all figured out by saying they dont have it all figured out. Quote: and what manner is that? I see that we arent supposed to flame, bait and other pretty definitive things, but talking about okinawa coral sand in a thread about egomania doesnt seem to break any rule... no more than half of the other members interjected puns. This is a forum, where all we have is our written word, an avatar, sig and emoticons.... so basically the written word. Are you saying that we need to consult emily post before we make some posting faux pas? where is this guideline to proper discourse? again, it just seems like you kicked over our sandcastle because you didnt like it, even though it is what people do on the beach. Quote: apparently there is a problem, or there wouldnt be this much discussion on it and 6 or 7 PMs between you and I. Are you here to decide what my intention is? I hope not... because you obviously did not get my intention on the Egomania thread. You can keep on trying to justify your actions any way you want.... you know it was bullshit that you moved my threads, and you know it was even more bullshit to not move them back after I had asked you to, and given reason. Now that I have posted this, I am over it. I just wanted to tell you and whoever cares, what the deal is. I think you suck at moderating. You should take diploids lead and just hold the title as some accomplishment or testament to your dilligence at be part of the shroomery, rather than trying to enforce subjective rules on to the people you have bias towards and try to make PS conform to the lowest common denominator of discussion. Do you not find it odd that in the three years that I have been posting here I have had no threads that I can remember be moved from PS until you started? Maybe there is one or two, maybe I even misposted once... but I never had any problems in this forum until you got this chip on your shoulder. If this was any other forum (excluding health) I wouldnt give a shit. But these two places, i do put real effort into constructing and wording threads a certain way and I would appreciate if you could summon enough self restraint to stop shitting in my cereal. *shout out to Oscar Wilde
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Cuban Registered: 01/09/03 Posts: 19,274 Loc: Rabbit Hole |
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Do you guys believe that this forum should only allow philosophical or spiritual discussion?
I've said before that I tend to let the group consensus guide the forum. Some threads obviously don't belong here (Subject: "Is Eye of Knute Required For a Love Potion?" gets immediately moved to Mumbo Jumbo forum), but for the most part, if a thread is being read and posted to, I leave it alone. Natural selection does a great job of automatically killing useless threads through inactivity. Besides, none of us is a philosopher. We're just a bunch of online friends chilling with a P&S slant to the discussions. Also, I agree with elbisivni that forum regulars should get a little more deference than new guys. Just because a mod has ultimate power over the forum doesn't mean that he should dis long-time members whose contributions over the years have helped to shape the forum as much as the mods have. Rules have to be enforced sometimes, but as far as possible, live and let live.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Nothing was lost, visibility in P&S remained until the natural flow of discussion buried the notice, and the discussion of the thread continued forth in the same manner it was outlined to be discussed as.
), it seems quite evident that P&S users followed the discussion into the more suitable forum and continued the discourse unabated. In fact, I note at least one Pub goer who knew who Orgone was even though they very rarely post in this forum, as well as several others that caught onto the point of the thread and contributed as well.
)
does that make it jovial still?
