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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Does philosophy protect you?
    #7224402 -

I remember an interview with T. Leary in prison where he said that he had been to the "ends", and now felt safe to say that he was as strong as anybody (psychologically).

Since I have come to the shroomery I have heard more stories of people losing it, becoming dysfunctional, than I ever expected. Maybe I am looking for them.

Still, it happens, whether considered spiritual or not. My question: how do you know you have been to the ends? In other words, handled the most difficult experience possible. I don't see how anyone could know. Not to say that you can't know if you've been around.

So, with all this discussion about working through experiences, claiming self empowerment, transcending beliefs and so on - can you honestly say you will practice what is preached no matter what is thrown at you? :sherlock:

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Epigallo]
    #7224437 -

Religion I think is a defense against the human nature that you're talking about, the Christian "You must forgive my human nature", the warrior "The best form of defense is attack".


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Booby]
    #7224462 -

I don't follow you. What sort of human nature?

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Epigallo]
    #7224474 -

i feel i have been to the "ends", or at least very close to it (i don't think there is an absolute end). i have been labelled as insane, i have been a recluse, and i have been absolutely nothing.

i know that i can only preach words. i try not to practise words, rather experience. if i choose to i can interpret my experience. but i know that it is only an interpretation, and this allows me to transcend "beliefs and so on". i don't know if im on the right page as you.


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Epigallo]
    #7224482 -

The Christian philosophy protects you from your own human nature. (at least it gives you an "out" while simultaneously giving an "in" to the less desirable characteristics of human nature)


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

Edited by Booby (07/25/07 11:12 PM)

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Booby]
    #7224519 -

One might say that religion condones, even encourages base human nature.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: onlynow]
    #7224544 -

onlynow said:
i feel i have been to the "ends", or at least very close to it (i don't think there is an absolute end). i have been labelled as insane, i have been a recluse, and i have been absolutely nothing.

i know that i can only preach words. i try not to practise words, rather experience. if i choose to i can interpret my experience. but i know that it is only an interpretation, and this allows me to transcend "beliefs and so on". i don't know if im on the right page as you.


well, you generally aren't considered insane now, right? were you familiar with psychedlic states and philosophy when you were labeled as such?

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Booby]
    #7224567 -

Booby: I don't understand you at all. I never mentioned religion, christianity, or human nature, and I can't see how my post relates to these things. Religion is not philosophy and "insanity" describes an inability to function - not something about human nature.

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Epigallo]
    #7224576 -

bradley said:
Religion is not philosophy


Ah, I see.


--------------------
Let it not be remembered
That mycelium eats detritus and dies
But that life in all it's glory
Counts mycelium to be on it's side.

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Epigallo]
    #7224642 -

bradley said:
onlynow said:
i feel i have been to the "ends", or at least very close to it (i don't think there is an absolute end). i have been labelled as insane, i have been a recluse, and i have been absolutely nothing.

i know that i can only preach words. i try not to practise words, rather experience. if i choose to i can interpret my experience. but i know that it is only an interpretation, and this allows me to transcend "beliefs and so on". i don't know if im on the right page as you.


well, you generally aren't considered insane now, right? were you familiar with psychedlic states and philosophy when you were labeled as such?


i work in a social environment and i get along with everybody. all relationships are healthy. i can't judge.

when i was labelled as insane, i was familiar with psychedelic states. i would always be searching for ego death.


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: onlynow]
    #7225384 -

I don't think there is an 'end' since experiences are subjective.

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Epigallo]
    #7225844 -

Does philosophy protect you?

Quite the opposite in fact.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Epigallo]
    #7225896 -

I have been the same onlynow (called insane, schizophrenic, tried to will my ego away), and am only slowly emerging out of it. I would say I have been through very rough times but compared to infinity it hasn't been rough at all.

Philosophy certainly did protect me from reality during this period. I even majored in philosophy for a year and invested myself heavily in certain concepts which favoured my denial of reality.

I would also constantly identify myself with the egoless state I experienced on a mushroom trip.


--------------------

Edited by EternalCowabunga (07/26/07 11:00 AM)

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Icelander]
    #7226225 -

Icelander said:
Does philosophy protect you?

Quite the opposite in fact.


What do you mean? Being well versed in psychedelic philosophy makes you vulnerable to psychosis? The protection I was referring to was the ability to handle and integrate experiences...rather than being disintegrated by them. Do you mean philosophy (particularly psychedelic) is detrimental to this?

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Epigallo]
    #7226258 -

Properly applied philosophy leads to a confrontation with chaos and no turning back. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Epigallo]
    #7226952 -

Icelander said:
Does philosophy protect you?

Quite the opposite in fact.


What do you mean? Being well versed in psychedelic philosophy makes you vulnerable to psychosis? The protection I was referring to was the ability to handle and integrate experiences...rather than being disintegrated by them. Do you mean philosophy (particularly psychedelic) is detrimental to this?


I agree with Icelander here. Philosophy enjoins one to critique one's life experience, and in doing so, it destroys the "shields" that armour the common person. People dull themselves with lots of repetative behaviors, with dulling drugs, with deadly dulling TV shows, even with dull friends and acquaintances. People also live unconsciously and uncritically. Few people question their existential givens. I mean, people don't ask 'why?' driving a luxury car is important, but many are compelled to strive hard to obtain one. For some it is a sexual attractant. For others it is a manifestation of one's financial status which immediately translates into the owner's self-esteem which is heavily defined by (of all things) how much money they have. As soon as people start to ask 'why?' instead of going along with their unconscious participation in marketable reality, things begin to change.

This is why the government experiment with LSD had to be stopped immediately. I'm something of a conspiracy theorist on this, but, I lived within view of Sandoz Pharmaceuticals, E. Hanover, NJ. I had been there many times for different jobs. Although all I ever tasted was their Psilocybin, I knew people who used to get baggies full of 200 blue LSD pills! How many of these pills 'leaked' from Sandoz will always be a mystery, but all the famous acid heads tasted Sandoz LSD at one time. Now, when the Acid-Enlightenment allowed people to see through the marketing game and the fashion game, and an old Volkswagon Beetle was the same thing as a brand new Cadillac - just a car - the government realized how dangerous this mentality would be to our conspicuous consumerist society.

Acid turned many common people into psychedelic philosophers for a short time, and capitalist America just can't have this happen. Philosophy then protects one from the cultural lies that most people unconsciously adopt, but then, it opens one up to the contempt of the main society. People get very offended when the expensive car or clothes or whatever they are showing off is regarded with polite approval, but without deep appreciation and envy! :mad2:

Last night I saw a commercial on TV (yes, dulling TV) which boasted that Mercedes-Benz owners love their cars more than the owners of other types of cars. People were sprawled on the hoods, or embracing the roof or gazing from a distance with moony-eyed looks for their beloved Benz. Me, as 'psychedelic philosopher' doesn't sit rapt, wishing that I could own a Mercedes (I actually could if I wanted to), but I think, "Gag me with a spoon!" Many people think I'm expressing sour grapes - that I really want one and I'm protesting too much. But that is not it at all. Our society is peopled with minds that really hate those who laugh at their pretension and materially-based self-esteem.

Philosophy doesn't protect you from them, it protects you from 'drinking in' the "river of shit" that we all swim in if we choose to live in society.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (07/26/07 07:35 PM)

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Epigallo]
    #7227101 -

Leary sounds arrogant, and I've read that on his death bed he was quite afraid of his end. The fool who thinks he is wise is a fool, but the fool who knows he is a fool at least has some wisdom.

People who don't practice what they preach usually have forgotten that their actions arise from their thoughts, and so believe they can leave their thoughts untouched while only trying to affect their actions. As long as your thoughts are controlled, what alternative would you have psychologically? Your actions must follow from your thoughts if you have the will, no matter the negative reinforcement attempting you to do otherwise.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Ravus]
    #7227111 -

Leary was arrogant; at times. Just like everyone. I never heard he was scared of his death. Please provide me with a source here as I have read the opposite.

Who always practices what they preach? Who?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Epigallo]
    #7227146 -

I don't think that philosophy protects you from insanity/instability, but it can help with that "not-so-fresh" feeling of psychological ennui.  :grin:

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Re: Does philosophy protect you? [Re: Veritas]
    #7227151 -

:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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