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Offlinejono
misc.
Registered: 05/11/02
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Loc: Sydney, Australia
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Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!!
    #630658 - 05/14/02 05:14 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I was reading an interview with Peter Hacker, about his study of Ludwig Wittgenstein (you philosophers out there will know what I'm talking about.) Anyway Peter Hacker Stated the following on philosophy, and I found it to basically sum up my views, and be a damn fine quote at the same time!

"Where are the libraries incorporating the sound knowledge achieved by 25 centuries of philosophical investigation? There are thousands of books con-taining secure knowledge of physics, chemistry, biology, and so forth - but none in philosophy. But that is neither because philosophers are so stu-pid, nor because their questions are so difficult. It is because philosophical questions are conceptual, not factual questions. They call out for clarifica-tion, not for information. The aim is to clarify our conceptual scheme, the way we conceive of things - not to add to our knowledge about the world. The objective is a certain, distinctive, form of understanding."


Cheers,
Jono.


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Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton


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Offlinefrogsheath
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Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: jono]
    #630703 - 05/14/02 05:46 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

This seems like a sound proposition (and a good question to boot).


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OfflineAmoeba665
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Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: jono]
    #630724 - 05/14/02 06:12 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

abstract ideas (philosophy, beliefs) are like the invisible strings controlling the marionette.

those who control the abstract ideas being spread are like the puppetmasters hiding in the rafters.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: Amoeba665]
    #630943 - 05/14/02 09:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, I hate how libraries are really information-stores... An entire floor dedicated to government bullshit and only 20 bookcases on one floor dedicated to philosophy- a tragedy for sure. There should be an unspoken rule that makes it mandatory that at least 1/8 of all the books in a library should be philosophy (pure philosophy).


those who control the abstract ideas being spread are like the puppetmasters hiding in the rafters.

Holy Fuck do I like that quote... tell me it's yours...


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinejono
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Registered: 05/11/02
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Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: jono]
    #631180 - 05/15/02 05:15 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

The quote came out of a context (too long to include), but Peter Hacker was not in anyway attacking what is currently in libraries, or stating that libraries should contain more books on philsophy. What he was saying that philosophy isnt about coming to definitive conclusions, but rather about understanding and clariying ideas. The last three sentences of the quote are the most important.

Im sorry that I allowed it to be misunderstood in that regard.

Cheers,
Jono.


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Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: jono]
    #631256 - 05/15/02 06:46 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

No... I read your post, there was no misunderstanding. I'm saying that libraries should contain more philosophy books. We live in an age of specialization... optimized people for optimized performance in just one particular field.
"Let the education centers keep cranking out walking hard drives... we don't need 'thinking' units... Hell, we don't even need rewritables. All we need is a ROM with lots of info- an expert system. We'll make em' think they're infallible, they won't be, but who cares? If they fuck up, we'll just get rid of em'."


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Offlinejono
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Registered: 05/11/02
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Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: Sclorch]
    #632236 - 05/15/02 08:44 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Ahh, I see. Im sorry, i thought there was a hint of sarcasm in your post.

I couldnt agree more about people being built for optimization in specialized fields, being able to "think" is becoming less and less important isnt it....


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Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton


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Anonymous

Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: Sclorch]
    #632536 - 05/16/02 06:00 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Specialization is for insects.


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Offlinefoo
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Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: Sclorch]
    #635644 - 05/18/02 06:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Specialization is not that bad. I'd rather live in an age of specialization than work my whole life just to barely feed myself enough to stay alive then die at forty.


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"I get up, I walk, I fall down. Meanwhile, I keep dancing."


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: foo]
    #635790 - 05/18/02 09:04 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah... sure... whatever....


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleMiddlemanM
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Registered: 07/12/99
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Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: foo]
    #635922 - 05/19/02 01:26 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)


"a huMan being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a broken bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. SPECIALIZATION IS FOR INSECTS."

-Robert A. Heinlein as quoted in _Prometheus Rising_ by Robert Anton Wilson

~




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Offlinenomez_
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Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: Middleman]
    #635940 - 05/19/02 02:03 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

at some point all of those are separate specializations. specialization on a speices level does not really exist for humans, at least not without making broad generalizations about carrers and such. but in numerous individual respects the things we learn to do are all specialized.

philsophy should have not only a specialized study, but should also be diversely used throughout the educational system (libraries) in other specialized feilds of study, like biology. (im sure if we cared enough to try you could find philosophy in biology) .

as for the reason philosophy is not an idea more entertained throughout the current liberal education system, its a question for the ages (and ironically the philosophers).


btw,i appoligize for the lack of caps. im really tired.


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Just a Smart Monkey


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: nomez_]
    #636508 - 05/19/02 02:41 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

philsophy should have not only a specialized study, but should also be diversely used throughout the educational system (libraries) in other specialized feilds of study,

In theory it should be... the highest degree (title) of achievement in the educational system is PhD- Doctor of Philosophy [insert field here]. Using the term philosophy (to me) connotes a wide range of thoughts and an open mind. That being said, my experience with the university system has only provided me with a handful of open-minded individuals (most of them have NOT been professors).

like biology. (im sure if we cared enough to try you could find philosophy in biology) .

I just graduated with a BS in biology. Of course there is philosophy in biology, but that's not my point. Most of the major scientific breakthroughs in the last century (under roughly the same educational system) have been made by people who thought outside the box- not tunnel-visioned. A great example of this would be the discovery of PCR, the polymerase chain reaction, THE cornerstone of the field of genetics. Kary Mullis, the discoverer, was driving through some windy mountain roads on a headful of acid when he realized the usefulness of the polymerase found in the bacteria Thermophilus aquatica, which lives in hot springs and thermal vents. (this is an absolutely true story)

My point is that tunnel vision does nothing but put people in an easily controllable position. They are forced to be dependent on others for services and necessities. They become a part dependent on the whole- a specialized cog that fits into the cultural machine. The machine feeds this process of specialization. The body of the machine just goes on and on... while the brain, the reflective and self-critical cultural units (open minds and philosophers), gets smaller and smaller. Eventually this fucker is going to collapse on itself... that will suck. So, if more free-spinning cogs are created, there will be less chaos when/if the system goes down like it historically has (empires rise and empires fall... it is inevitable when there is no change to the system). Right now, we're moving in a direction that is no longer necessary (I'll spare you this rant for now)... change must happen if any sort of whole is to survive. I'm talking about real change. For instance, is it possible to name a state, a county (or parrish), a city, a neighborhood, a university, or a school where racism does not exist? Although diversity is good, I don't think racism is an evil that should be a necessary ingredient in a cultural melting pot.

I could go on for pages, but I won't...
Basically, specialization is a way of controlling people by narrowing their cognitive focus. I will oppose anything that discourages free-thinking.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: Sclorch]
    #636522 - 05/19/02 02:59 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Sclorch,
Perhaps you would find yourself in agreement with this quote,

"I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
-- Thomas Jefferson (1800)


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Excellent Quote on Philosophy!!! [Re: ]
    #636993 - 05/19/02 10:47 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Indeed I would, evolving, indeed I would.


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