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When there are no more violent crimes, I will agree with you... when criminals no longer have guns of their own, I will agree with you... until then, you are very, very mistaken. As long as the bad elements in society have guns, there is a legitimate reason for me to own a gun.

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Seuss said:

When there are no more violent crimes, I will agree with you... when criminals no longer have guns of their own, I will agree with you...

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FrenchSocialist said:

Isn't outlawing guns the first step in making sure criminals do not have guns of their own?

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gopenguins said:

FrenchSocialist said:

Isn't outlawing guns the first step in making sure criminals do not have guns of their own?

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And what would be the second step...and who would put this into motion?

1) Every law abiding citizen turns in guns
2) Criminals dont turn in guns
3) No guns but in the hands of law enforcement and criminals
4) Complete faith lost in law enforcement after criminal uprisings take over. Crime is rampent because most people have no means of protecting themselves against criminals with guns and police forces are just completely overwellmed
5) Anarchy - the people want their guns back because they learned not to rely on others to protect them.

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FrenchSocialist said:

I think you are right that it would be unrealistic to simply expect all criminals to hand over their guns.

However I think as venues by which to purchase guns are increasingly shut-down and illegally held guns are confiscated, the prevalence of guns will likely decrease.

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Quote:

Q: Does the ban reduce the use of assault weapons in crime?

A: Yes. As more and more assault weapons are confiscated from crime scenes, fewer and fewer criminals and juveniles will have access to these deadly killing machines. And, in fact, there is evidence that the ban has worked.

Gun traces are one of the best measures of gun usage in crime. In 1999, the National Institute of Justice reported that trace requests for assault weapons in the 1993-95 period declined 20% in the first calendar year after the ban took effect, dropping from 4,077 in 1994 to 3,268 in 1995. Over the same time period, gun murders declined only 10% and trace requests for all types of guns declined 11 percent, clearly showing a greater decrease in the number of assault weapons traced in crime.[8]

This same study also reported that the number of assault weapons traced in St. Louis and Boston declined 29% and 24% respectively, as a share of all guns recovered in crime, during late 1995 and into 1996.

In addition, a study by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence (formerly the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence) found that, in Maryland, whose ban on assault pistols took effect in June 1994, the number of assault pistols recovered by Baltimore police in the first six months of 1995 fell by 45 percent from the first six months of 1994.[9]

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zappaisgod said:

I cannot fault any single individual but I can express a general disgust with the whole "It's not my job" ethos that seems to have permeated academia and children in general that led to absolutely NOBODY doing anything at all.

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Yeah I suppose those kids should have been packing heat. 

Quote:

Criminals that carry guns carry guns to intimidate the people they are abusing, not because they fear the police might show up.

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robbyberto said:

The main reason guns should be legal: To help protect ourselves from an overpowering and oppressive government. Also, why not start a gun control thread instead of talking about gun control in the VA Tech Massacre thread.

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robbyberto said:

So you would rather not put up any kind of fight?

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GazzBut said:

Lots of nice pictures Lonestar but I think Im quite happy with being defenceless. Its blatanly obvious that if guns were legalised in the UK it would become a much more dangerous place to live. This is fact and if you think anything else you are an idiot. Basically you yanks think you are still fucking cowboys and it is sad and pathetic to watch.

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Remember


  The "fucking cowboys" saved the limp-wristed Brits from the NAZIS...    (WITH GUNS)



FACTS

Murder rates by country


Colombia (strict gun control): 618 murders per million people
South Africa (strict gun control): 496 murders per million people
Jamaica (strict gun control): 324 murders per million people
Venezuela (strict gun control): 316 murders per million people
Russia (strict gun control): 202 murders per million people
Mexico (strict gun control): 130 murders per million people
United States (partial gun control): 43 murders per million people

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Facts about the Great UK UTOPIA


One in three criminals under the age of 25 owns or has access to a firearm, the Government's researchers have discovered. A continuing parliamentary inquiry into the growing number of black market weapons has concluded that there are more than three million illegally held firearms in circulation - double the number believed to have been held 10 years ago - and that criminals are more willing than ever to use them."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,2763,363761,00.html

  "gun crime is so bad in Nottingham that the city has been dubbed "Assassination City" -- you don't get a nickname like that for nothing!"


Nottingham Chief Constable, Steve Green: can't cope with all the murders in Nottingham.


Not so long ago, Nottingham was a decent city, not at all notorious for violent crime or crime in general. In recent years however, Nottingham has become notorious for out-of-control violent crime, gun crime, and hard-drug dealing; in fact, gun crime is so bad in Nottingham that the city has been dubbed "Assassination City" -- you don't get a nickname like that for nothing! The first thing any criminal in Nottingham (or in any part of Britain) does is to "tool up", which is why so many criminals in Nottingham, no matter how low-level, are carrying at least one. Such is the widespread availability of guns in Nottingham (and in Britain in general for that matter) that police often find young children carrying loaded guns. All this means that drug-dealing criminals, armed to the teeth, now control large parts of Nottingham, with the law-abiding public at their mercy.

likewise, Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool all suffer from widespread gun violence."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4344595.stm

Why Britain needs more guns


Violent crime in America has been plummeting for 10 consecutive years, even as British violence has been rising. By 1995 English rates of violent crime were already far higher than America's for every major violent crime except murder and rape.

When guns were available in England they were seldom used in crime. A government study for 1890-1892 found an average of one handgun homicide a year in a population of 30 million. But murder rates for both countries are now changing. In 1981 the American rate was 8.7 times the English rate, in 1995 it was 5.7 times the English rate, and by last year it was 3.5 times. With American rates described as "in startling free-fall" and British rates as of October 2002 the highest for 100 years the two are on a path to converge.
















http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/html/cjusew96/crvs.htm

GazzBut said:

If the police didnt carry guns then less criminals would carry guns.

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I hope you weren't being serious, because that is the most unrealistic statement I have read yet today, and that is taking into consideration FrenchSocialist's statement that there is no legitamate reason to own or use a gun.

If police didn't carry guns, then criminals would, as it would give them an edge over the police. So basically you think that the police should be incapable of protecting themselves and others by using guns?

lonestar2004 said:

FACTS

Murder rates by country


Colombia (strict gun control): 618 murders per million people
South Africa (strict gun control): 496 murders per million people
Jamaica (strict gun control): 324 murders per million people
Venezuela (strict gun control): 316 murders per million people
Russia (strict gun control): 202 murders per million people
Mexico (strict gun control): 130 murders per million people
United States (partial gun control): 43 murders per million people

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

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Quote:

lonestar2004 said:One in three criminals under the age of 25 owns or has access to a firearm, the Government's researchers have discovered. A continuing parliamentary inquiry into the growing number of black market weapons has concluded that there are more than three million illegally held firearms in circulation - double the number believed to have been held 10 years ago - and that criminals are more willing than ever to use them."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,2763,363761,00.html

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Quote:

lonestar2004 said:Violent crime in America has been plummeting for 10 consecutive years, even as British violence has been rising. By 1995 English rates of violent crime were already far higher than America's for every major violent crime except murder and rape.

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Quote:

lonestar2004 said:When guns were available in England they were seldom used in crime. A government study for 1890-1892 found an average of one handgun homicide a year in a population of 30 million. But murder rates for both countries are now changing. In 1981 the American rate was 8.7 times the English rate, in 1995 it was 5.7 times the English rate, and by last year it was 3.5 times. With American rates described as "in startling free-fall" and British rates as of October 2002 the highest for 100 years the two are on a path to converge.

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