GnosticWarrior said:

I agree with you here! But, I'd like to elaborate. From birth till a certain age, a person was not in control of their environment, parents, role models, and programing. This period determined the foundation of who a person is. As physical and mental growth progresses, one becomes less dependent on other people dictating choices for them. However, there's still a lot of external factors that one will never be in control of. All one can do is maximize the opportunities that are created by the Power of choice regarding the options that they are given.

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Quote:

GnosticWarrior said:In essence, who you would become was not your choice but just a matter of fufilling your destiny. One can only be held responsible for the choices they were aware of. Ignorance should be forgiven. And it is possible for one to choose not to accept their destiny, thereby creating avoidable misery. There is no external benchmark that can accurately measure a person's internal efforts. And isn't this what a person should really be graded on, if any?

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skeeter said:

The T.V. controls us and everything we do.

Think about it, everything "comforatable" is faced to a screen.
Drawing you in.
Inviting you to absorb all it has to say.
Turn on the news. Propaganda.



It raises your children. Tells their easily warped minds how to behave In every way it can.

Ask me questions.


Also on a different note, I hate private christian schools.

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Quote:

People do not choose to be poor or ignorant, it happens in accordance with physiological mechanisms and cultural programming. They may literally have no control over the situation.

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Icelander said:

skeeter said:

The T.V. controls us and everything we do.

Think about it, everything "comforatable" is faced to a screen.
Drawing you in.
Inviting you to absorb all it has to say.
Turn on the news. Propaganda.



It raises your children. Tells their easily warped minds how to behave In every way it can.

Ask me questions.


Also on a different note, I hate private christian schools.

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What you mean is TV controls everything you do.:p

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FrenchSocialist said:

GnosticWarrior said:

I agree with you here!  But, I'd like to elaborate.  From birth till a certain age, a person was not in control of their environment, parents, role models, and programing.  This period determined the foundation of who a person is.  As physical and mental growth progresses, one becomes less dependent on other people dictating choices for them.  However, there's still a lot of external factors that one will never be in control of.  All one can do is maximize the opportunities that are created by the Power of choice regarding the options that they are given. 

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Behavioral geneticists, based on what I have read describe it differently. What they state is that as you age, based on their research which is able to control for environmental factors, is that genetic factors begin to play a larger role then environmental.

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When I wrote my reply I wasn't even thinking of the role of genetics.  I was only looking at the role nurture plays.  Yes, nature does play a bigger factor.

FrenchSocialist said:

GnosticWarrior said:In essence, who you would become was not your choice but just a matter of fufilling your destiny.  One can only be held responsible for the choices they were aware of.  Ignorance should be forgiven.  And it is possible for one to choose not to accept their destiny, thereby creating avoidable misery. There is no external benchmark that can accurately measure a person's internal efforts.  And isn't this what a person should really be graded on, if any?

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I think what you say makes a lot of sense, and I also very much agree with the notions of altruistic individualism and encouraging others to reach their potential. I think we are just describing different approaches to the issue.

All in all I just see telling people what to do as impractical. Research has shown some people spend their pay checks like drunken sailors, instead of setting sufficient funds aside for retirement, in part for genetic reasons. These people simply do not have the capacity to save money. Their minds are tied to the hunter-gatherer era where literally the next day could be their last. They are experiencing life at a shorter life expectancy. It is unreasonable to expect these people to start saving because we:

1- Wrote to them that they should.

2- Said to them that they should.

3- Threatened future punishment/social abandonment if they should not.

The same may go with people in other areas of life- saving for health care, academic aptitude, driving a car, getting over religion, etc.

It is unreasonable to expect everyone to meet certain requirements without any aid, and to deny them this aid is to deny them a chance to reach their potential. I don't see that as a constructive policy.

I also don't see the point in judging the value of a person's life by how well they are able to excel in a given area. Excellence is admirable, but I think such is superseded by matters like how ethical a person is or how true they are to those close to them.

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I see your point here.  Even Warren Buffett says, that he is predispositioned to excel in today's captial market society and that he would make a poor hunter gatherer and would probably be killed off early in that era.  However, I do believe that we are all born with the potential to bear certain gifts.  This gift might not be highly regarded in current society but can still be beneficial.

So yes, preaching and telling people what they should do is of no help to them unless it can actually help one develop their gift.  But I think we tend to do it bcs we might not know how to be of true aid to someone or are too self centered to see the role that each individual plays in the bigger picture.  Too much emphasis has been put on the individual as being independent and not interdependent.  I think our destiny is to learn how to help others with our gifts.  Of course maybe hurting people with it might be part of the learning process. 

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Quote:

Clean said:
Blame is not necessary.  Living in ignorance of the nature of self and its relationship to society is punishment enough.

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