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Re: A question about meditation. [Re: Alnico]
    #6653649 -

We'll see about that when I'm the one winning.;)


Just kidding, each and every one of us takes their own path to enlightenment, it takes some years and others decades. :shrug:

Edited by DarkMoon21 (03/10/07 09:38 AM)

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Re: A question about meditation. [Re: DarkMoon21]
    #6653916 -

Months? :what:

Show me the way to Amerello! :wink:


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Re: A question about meditation. [Re: Sinbad]
    #6654109 -

i think it's all chocolate


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: A question about meditation. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6654163 -

How quaint. :wink:


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Re: A question about meditation. [Re: Sinbad]
    #6655288 -

Alright, alright, I edited that, i was getting a little bit too ambitious with the months thing....Anyone who gets there that fast is lying or a scientologist.


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-=-Never Sigh For Better World
It's Already Composed
Played And Told-=-

Science gives a consistent how with an incomplete why.
Faith gives an inconsistent how with a complete why.

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Re: A question about meditation. [Re: DarkMoon21]
    #6655299 -

there are fast and slow ways.
some are sudden
occasionally there is satori after the wind blows in the leaves.
also
Nestle's
Quick
Cho -co - late.

we can continue without need to be right(ed)


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: A question about meditation. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6655332 -

Nestle is not a good option, slave labor in many countries. Satori is not complete awakening, only a passing glimpse. It takes a long time to wipe away those ignorance obscuration's for good, but little peeks behind the curtain occur from time to time. We just keep going, accumulating positive actions, meditating and taking refuge in a genuine path, enjoying the journey, rather than focusing on the goal.


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Re: A question about meditation. [Re: Sinbad]
    #6655337 -

isn't meditation all about simply quieting the mind? In other words simply being still in the darkness of your mind


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Re: A question about meditation. [Re: shizznit]
    #6655366 -

Meditation initially is about calming the mind. Calming the mind is the first training, or practice called shamatha that allows us to have more stability, calm and clarity, free from habitual distraction.

Then comes the second training called insight or vipassana meditation which gives us the methods to allow us to penetrate deeply and clearly into the minds nature, removing the darkness of ignorance completely, hence 'enlightenment'.


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Edited by Sinbad (03/10/07 10:22 AM)

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a little satori goes a long (middle) way [Re: Sinbad]
    #6655603 -

I keep questioning "if you are sure", sinbad, because you still like things in absolute terms:
a little satori daily seems suitable to me
while on the middle way
in lieu of
putting it off and attending a more consumerist/christian style ideal of some absolute enlightenment.

you don't even need to find out which way it's gonna be, as you already are.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: a little satori goes a long (middle) way [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6655717 -

What would be the point of walking a path, that has no fruit? Satori experiences are great, and serve as inspiration to continue on the path, not an end to themselves. The Buddha would not have taught that there is an end to suffering if
there was no result. Even zen teachers do not consider satori experiences to be the main point. Suzuki roshi did'nt even like to talk about satori, for this reason.

Practice, no matter what is key, through this we can come to fruition in our present experience. Enlightenment is when our afflictive obscurations have been completely purified, and we have continuity with the recognition of our natural, original state. Practicing the fruit as path, as you are suggesting is a taller order than you seem to recognize. Practicing the path as fruit (meaning having no goal craving in mind and just practicing no matter what) is a much better approach.


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Re: a little satori goes a long (middle) way [Re: Sinbad]
    #6655776 -

path and fruit are not separated


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: a little satori goes a long (middle) way [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6655786 -

For someone who is already realized, this may be so. but for us struggling sentient beings, that is just not how it is. Are you saying that you are enlightened red?

As for practicing the fruit as the path, this is a tall order baby, and there are'nt many people that can make that kind of sudden leap. HHDL says that this is the main problem with sudden schools. They have insight, but the merit needed to sustain those insights is lacking, so it becomes a very difficult path to practice without falling prey to sidetracks and dead-ends.


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Edited by Sinbad (03/14/07 12:06 PM)

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Re: a little satori goes a long (middle) way [Re: Sinbad]
    #6655792 -

no more than you
but we are in the middle of fruit while making more


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: a little satori goes a long (middle) way [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6667752 -

redgreenvines said:
path and fruit are not separated


Path and fruit are not the same. The path is always something conditioned, while the fruit is unconditioned.


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Re: a little satori goes a long (middle) way [Re: Sinbad]
    #6668165 -

nothing is unconditioned.
dreaming about the unconditioned is the xtian consumer, longing for what he already has and thinking it is other.
the conditioned universe is what we are in, of, making, seeing, meditating.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: a little satori goes a long (middle) way [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6668336 -

redgreenvines said:
nothing is unconditioned.
dreaming about the unconditioned is the xtian consumer, longing for what he already has and thinking it is other.
the conditioned universe is what we are in, of, making, seeing, meditating.


The unconditioned is our real nature, a state that is free from conditioned obscurations. It is unconditioned because it is the basis of our unmanifest potential, that does not exist anywhere inside or outside of beings conditioned aggregates.

I do not consider it to be some fanciful paradise dream of xtians or anyone else. In fact, i really have no idea why you keep injecting this xtian theme into your responses to my posts. Its absurd.


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Re: a little satori goes a long (middle) way [Re: Sinbad]
    #6668358 -

no more absurd than the expectation of a "real nature" (absolute-belief is absolutely-fundamental in this type of idea it is not intrinsic to the middle way)

do you understand intrinsic?

(i mean without using the ideas "Real" or "True" or anything else that depends upon dualistic thinking)


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: a little satori goes a long (middle) way [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6668373 -

You seem to be getting hung up on words again. The reason i say 'real nature' is that if i say human nature, people automatically think in the negative, as per our western conditioning towards the nature of the human being.

The English language is 'inherently' dualistic, and we cant get away from this fact. even saying 'intrinsic' seems to imply that there is 'something' that is 'intrinsically' identifiable.

This is just the problem and complication of trying to use words and concepts to describe the indescribable. The trick is not to mistake the finger pointing for the sky itself grasshopper! :wink:


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Re: a little satori goes a long (middle) way [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6668591 -

Also a little side note. It is said that the only difference between a realized being and a sentient being is that the sentient being has afflictive and non-afflictive obscurations, while a realized being does not.


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Edited by Sinbad (03/14/07 12:17 PM)

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