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Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land
    #6471789 -

Seeing as the "Is Islam a threat?" thread is already so long, I didn't want to derail it even further, but one poster's comment in the thread got me thinking. I was talking about Israeli persecution of the Middle East, and he said something along the lines of, "What Israeli persecution?" and then proceeded to call me anti-Semitic for insulting Israel, which, last I remembered, was a country and not a race of people (I guess you can be racist against the governments of countries nowadays? Strange how that works.) Anyway, I found an awesome video on the subject, and just wanted to share for those interested in the illegal Israeli occupation of Palestine, though in all fairness it's only illegal according to the United Nations, and what the hell do they know?

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&q=peace+propaganda


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land [Re: Ravus]
    #6471923 -

Very good documentary. It was posted here a couple months ago, but it didn't seem to get much attention.


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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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Re: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land [Re: barfightlard]
    #6472161 -

Ah yeah, it does seem it was posted on here 6 months ago or so. I didn't see that, but it doesn't seem like it got much attention at the time, despite being a seemingly well-made documentary.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land [Re: Ravus]
    #6474022 -

I like these videos here:

The Jews Took No One's Land
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5KGx3iZQwI&mode=related&search=


The Culture of Jihad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9b7S2HA8Go&mode=related&search=


3 former terrorists talk about their culture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaUftcRJ5wo&NR

Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vypKSWHlnKA&mode=related&search=


Allah Happy when Kaafir get Killed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHCmSSetPV0&mode=related&search=


Rush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vypKSWHlnKA&mode=related&search=


"Anti-war" Demonstrators Supporting Terrorism and Hate in SF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3PKVuwNTmk&mode=related&search=


Defenders of Israel on the streets of San Francisco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CitKwxOiSW4&NR

Fight terror, support IDF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qw_sK-Xg18&mode=related&search=


Believes in Evolution, But Starts with 911 Jew islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Ksr1A-X80&mode=related&search=


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http://www.theamericanright.com/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15838446
http://www.climatedepot.com




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Re: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land [Re: Luddite]
    #6474131 -

I wonder if Luddite even watched Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land....

wow those videos are compeling, factless propaganda.......


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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

Edited by barfightlard (01/18/07 07:51 PM)

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Re: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land [Re: barfightlard]
    #6474190 -

barfightlard said:
I wonder if Luddite even watched Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land....


You think his acting on a conditioned reflex?? :stoned:


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quest for a fully automatized climate

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Re: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land [Re: Ravus]
    #6474356 -

Great documentary :thumbup:

The jewish influences in American media is really astonishing.

*edit* over the whole nation for that matter.

Edited by Arp (01/18/07 08:56 PM)

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Re: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land [Re: barfightlard]
    #6474415 -

A well put together film........however.....Resolution 242 is a two way street. If one were to actually read the resolution, it calls for a:
"termination of all states of belligerency". Since the said mentioned territories continue to war, or to aid in terrorism, it is a breach on THEIR behalf (from the Jewish point of view)


It is also an established fact that the only countries who initially accepted this resolution were Jordan and Israel.


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (01/18/07 09:18 PM)

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Re: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6474803 -

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=5973184339332769307

classic :smile:


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quest for a fully automatized climate

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Re: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land [Re: Ravus]
    #6475915 -

I definitely think there is something of a problem with the American view of Israel, however, I also believe that "Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land" is VERY heavy on the "propaganda".

I think a more "moderate" view of the problem was presented this past march in the article entitled "The Israel Lobby" written by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt. Both are fairly important minds in the world of political science, and neither are known for the out-right insanity of Noam Chomsky and Robert Fisk (both of whom are quoted in Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land).

Anyone who is interested can read "The Israel Lobby" here:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

Just to point out the problems I have with the documentary listed in this thread, I would ask a few questions:

First, while American media is undoubtedly biased, that does not automatically make international media "unbiased". I think this is a fundamental flaw in the thinking expanded upon throughout the second half of the documentary.

Second, the major arguments about Israeli "control" of the media could all be applied to "Big Tobacco" and "Big Oil" just as readily. We all know that both Tobacco and Oil spent many billions of dollars fighting lawsuits and waging PR campaigns, both through lobbyists and independent "research" organizations. Yet in both the areas of climate change and smoking, the reality of the situation reached the public's ears. No matter how many congressmen these industries have in their pockets, the matters still hit home with the American public.

So, there must actually be *something* about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that makes it different from issues like smoking and climate change, where the American people actually WANT to believe the Israel Lobby over other news sources.

In my personal opinion, I think it's the suicide bombing. I can think of nothing that makes a cause less sympathetic than the employ of suicide bombings. I do not believe that the American public can be genuinely sympathetic with a people who support such a tactic.

I don't think what Israel is doing is right, but I do think that Palesitnian support of suicide bombers presents such a large hurdle to the American psyche that balanced reporting in America may simply not be possible.

Third, the fact remains that, unfortunately, the Palestinians "started it". This is obvious even when watching Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land. The documentary tries to downplay it, but the facts are clear. The issue started when the Arab nations tried to invade Israel (though the word "invasion" is tactfully left out of the documentary's opening screens), and the most severe opression began AFTER (and as a result of) the second intifada. If the Arab nations had not attempted to invade Israel, AND if the Intifadas had not started, we would in all probability be at a much more peaceful middle east today.

Finally, the last question I would ask is: what have other nations done when under foreign occupation?

Insofar as I can tell, the Palestinians are wholly unique in not trying to build a society up at all. I'm not talking about during the past 3 years either, it's obvious that security measures prevent that, but Chomsky claims that the occupation has been going on for over 30 years, and the greatest oppression has only been around for the last 3. So, the question is: what were the Palestinians doing for the first 30 years of the occupation?

When Japan was under American occupation, the Japanese tried to start businesses, create institutions, and rebuild their country. When East Germany was under Soviet occupation, the East Germans went to work, got educations, and focused on making the best lives they could under the Soviet yoke.

But for 30 years, all the Palestinians seem to have done is foment hate and throw rocks. I would then ask the question: how are we supposed to be sympathetic to their cause? I don't agree with Israel's actions, but I sure as hell don't agree with suicide bombers and a literal welfare state.

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Re: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land [Re: Economist]
    #6476011 -

Mearsheimer and Walt have been bitch-slapped so heavily by so many critics for their disgraceful little screed that they have been unable to muster ANY defense of their shoddy workmanship.

While it is true they aren't quite as bad as Chomsky and Fisk, "The Israel Lobby" is as worthless as any of Chomsky or Fisk's work if you are looking for actual facts about the issue.



Phred


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Re: Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land [Re: Phred]
    #6479475 -

Yeah, I guess I should have known better. Mearsheimer's ideas have always been a little "out there" (Like the prediction that Germany would immediately pursue nuclear weapons following the Cold War...).

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