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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen
    #3568975 - 01/01/05 10:05 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050102/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians

Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen

By IBRAHIM BARZAK, Associated Press Writer

GAZA CITY, Gaza - Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas said in an Associated Press interview Saturday that he wants to protect militants from Israel, rejecting Israeli demands that he crack down on them. It was his latest campaign gesture to court gunmen seen by many Palestinians as resistance heroes and by Israel as terrorists.

Also Saturday, Israeli aircraft fired a missile at group of militants in Khan Younis in southern Gaza Strip (news - web sites). There was no immediate word on casualties or other details. Israeli troops have been operating in the area in recent weeks, trying to halt mortar attacks launched from the area on nearby Jewish settlements.

In the interview, Abbas defended a series of recent public appearances with gunmen and indicated he has no such plans, saying the Palestinian leadership has a responsibility to protect its people.

"When we see them, when we meet them, and when they welcome us, we owe them," Abbas said. "This debt always is to protect them from assassination, to protect them from killing, and all these things they are subject to by the Israelis."

Abbas spoke to the AP in his Gaza City office hours after he was warmly welcomed by dozens of Palestinian gunmen in the Rafah refugee camp, a frequent flashpoint of Israeli-Palestinian fighting.

The rally, in which he praised Palestinian fugitives wanted by Israel as heroes, was the latest in a series of public appearances alongside gunmen.

Abbas' aides have described the campaign stops as election politics. Abbas, who has criticized violence and favors a negotiated peace settlement with Israel, will need to rally the young gunmen behind him to push forward with his agenda after the Jan. 9 election. Abbas is widely expected to win the vote.

But his campaign tactics have raised concerns in Israel about his commitment to peace. Israel refused to negotiate with longtime Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites), who died Nov. 11, accusing him of backing terrorism.

"We will see how he acts when he is elected, whether he will follow the path of terrorism like Arafat or not," a senior Israeli official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

In the interview, Abbas made no mention of a crackdown. But he said the armed militants are ready "to live within the society" if they are granted peace and security. "To remain wanted here and there, this is something no one could accept."

He also said that Israel's planned withdrawal from the Gaza Strip is "unacceptable" and demanded a resumption of peace talks based on the internationally backed "road map" peace plan.

"There is a Palestinian partner, and there always will be a Palestinian partner who is going to practice his right to negotiate and speak on behalf of the Palestinian people," he said.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) initially envisioned the Gaza withdrawal, which is scheduled to begin next summer, as a unilateral act. But he has said he would coordinate the pullout with the new Palestinian leadership if it acts against armed militants after the election.

Abbas called for a comprehensive solution of the conflict, including an end to Israel's control of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem, and a fair resolution for hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees.

"We should bring all of these subjects to the table in order to reach a final settlement," he said.

In Rafah, Abbas received a warm welcome from tens of thousands of residents.

When his convoy arrived, several hundred gunmen stopped his vehicle to greet their leader. Abbas got out of his car and waved to the ecstatic crowd.

The gunmen, members of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, a violent group with ties to Abbas' ruling Fatah (news - web sites) party, placed a black baseball cap on his head and briefly hoisted him on their shoulders. Chanting pro-Abbas slogans, they escorted him through the noisy crowd before he headed indoors to deliver a speech.

Abbas' speech, marking the 40th anniversary of the founding of Fatah, included numerous gestures toward the militants.

Abbas repeatedly praised Arafat, hailed Palestinians killed in fighting with Israel and described fugitive militants on Israel's most-wanted list as heroes.

"We will not forget those wanted by Israel. These are the heroes that are fighting for freedom," he said.

The large crowd chanted pro-Abbas slogans, and the hall became so crowded that Abbas had to exit through a window.

Palestinian analysts have said Abbas, who lacks the popularity of Arafat, needs to toughen his staid image to win support from young Palestinians caught up in the struggle against Israel.

Ahmed Subah, an aide to Abbas, said in a recent interview that the candidate's "real" agenda is "ending the Israeli occupation through peaceful negotiations, attaining security for Palestinian citizens and achieving reform and development."

Through his outreach to the al-Aqsa militants, Abbas is signaling that he wants to co-opt them, not confront them as Israel and the United States have demanded.

Abbas must also figure out how to work with Hamas, the largest Palestinian opposition group. Hamas, which has carried out dozens of suicide bombings, is boycotting the election, although it has said it will honor the results.

In the West Bank town of Ramallah, more than 2,000 people took part in a Fatah anniversary celebration. Dozens of gunmen joined the march, occasionally firing into the air and sending people running for cover.

Also Saturday, a 10-year-old Palestinian girl was killed when a Palestinian rocket veered off course and ripped through her home in the Jebaliya refugee camp in northern Gaza, residents said.

The Israeli army said there were no troops in the area at the time. It said that militants fired nine homemade rockets into southern Israel and 15 mortars at settlements in the Gaza Strip since Friday. No injuries were reported.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3569024 - 01/01/05 10:29 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Same story, different slants.

"Abbas 'will not fight militants'" - BBC - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4140523.stm

"Palestinian leader Abbas says he will protect militants from Israel" - CBC - http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/050101/w010130.html

"Abbas welcomed in Gaza amid Israel's offensive" - AlJazeera - http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=6554

"Abbas sees duty to shield the militants" - NYTimes - http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/02/international/middleeast/02mideast.html?oref=login

"Mahmoud Abbas fait campagne dans la bande de Gaza, fief des mouvements islamistes" ("Mahmoud Abbas campaigns in the Gaza Strip, stronghold of the islamist movements") - Le Monde - http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3218,36-392599,0.html


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3569380 - 01/02/05 12:38 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

He is just going to be another arafat. The palestinians will not accept anything but a bloody end to the conflict. There is just to much hatred and they will never allow isreal to withdraw peacefully even if they want to. They will also never allow a leader to come to power who wants peace over bloodshed. Its time that people recognize this and stop wasting time and effort with futile hopes of a peaceful resolution. The only way it will end is when one society brings the other down by mass killing of the population. I dont care which side it is but it is inevitable because they are both totally ignorant and they probably both deserve to have their societies crumble.


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3570090 - 01/02/05 05:11 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

At least Abbas didn't sell his own people out.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3570624 - 01/02/05 12:13 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Do you mean like Arafuck did?


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: Catalysis]
    #3570640 - 01/02/05 12:22 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
The palestinians will not accept anything but a bloody end to the conflict.




I'm sorry, have you met every Palestinian? Have you met any Palestinians? What knowledge do you have of the Palestinian psyche other than what you see on the Western news? I was lucky enough to go to an international school for two years, and after having numerous Palestinian and Israeli friends, I think that the Western news paints the situation as much more futile - paints all Palestinians as hate filled terrorists, and all Israelis as zionist zealots - when, in fact, there is a significant portion of both societies that truthfully wish for a peaceful resolution, and to just lead their lives. It just annoys me a bit when western news-pundits make over-reaching claims about a people they know nothing about. To me, it's analogous to the fact that if you tell a child he is stupid enough times, he'll come to believe it... if you tell people "there is no solution - neither side wants a solution - it'll never end" they'll come to believe it. And then the only beneficiaries are the Arms industry.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: Krishna]
    #3570860 - 01/02/05 02:09 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

There might be a lot of Palestinians and Israelis who are not hate filled and who wish for a peaceful resolution. They might even be in the majority. However, it is obvious that there are significant minorities on both sides who resort to violence, revenge, and animosity. Have you ever seen a Hamas rally where THOUSANDS of people march, burn Israeli flags, wear mock explosives around their waists, and shoot guns into the air? The anti-Israeli organizations(Hamas, Al Aqsa, Islamic Jihad, etc..) have enough support and power that Abbas has to kiss their asses. The only way they can have such power and support is if there are a lot of Palestinians who agree with them. When Sharon orders helicopters to go and blow up stuff in the Gaza strip, I don't hear much of an outcry from Israelis. There is so much hatred in so many individuals on both sides. It is not just a few extremists here and there.

I have never been to Palestine. I don't have first person knowledge of the situation. All of my information on the conflict is from the news. So, maybe my opinion is wrong and warped.

Pray that I never get elected absolute dictator. I would probably lob a nuke at Israel and Palestine just to get the whole conflict over with. ...That is not a serious statement, but it illustrates my opinion that the only way peace will ever come to the Middle East is if both the Jews and the Arabs are dead.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: Krishna]
    #3570996 - 01/02/05 02:59 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Krishna said:
Quote:

Catalysis said:
The palestinians will not accept anything but a bloody end to the conflict.




I'm sorry, have you met every Palestinian? Have you met any Palestinians? What knowledge do you have of the Palestinian psyche other than what you see on the Western news? I was lucky enough to go to an international school for two years, and after having numerous Palestinian and Israeli friends, I think that the Western news paints the situation as much more futile - paints all Palestinians as hate filled terrorists, and all Israelis as zionist zealots - when, in fact, there is a significant portion of both societies that truthfully wish for a peaceful resolution, and to just lead their lives. It just annoys me a bit when western news-pundits make over-reaching claims about a people they know nothing about. To me, it's analogous to the fact that if you tell a child he is stupid enough times, he'll come to believe it... if you tell people "there is no solution - neither side wants a solution - it'll never end" they'll come to believe it. And then the only beneficiaries are the Arms industry.




Do you honestly believe that the tiny subset of Palestinians that you may have met at an international school is the least bit representative of the overwhelming majority of Palestinians who are almost completely uneducated? Your anecdotal observations are far more skewed than what is reported in the news just on the basis of your ridiculous choice of sample. They have been polled numerous times and by several differnt organizations and there is a consistent near majority that will accept nothing but the destruction of Israel, particularly as typified by the demand for a right of return. Do not bother ignoring the fact that suicide bombers are worshipped as heroes throughout the Palestinian-occupied territories.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3571283 - 01/02/05 04:24 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Zappa - i didn't mean that the people I know represent a statistic sample of either israeli or palestinian society. i know they don't. what i wanted to express is that there are numerous organisations within Israel and Palestine working towards peaceful co-existence. Even within a group like Hamas, there are factions working for peaceful co-existence. There are many main-stream Israeli political parties (the labour party, for example) working for a peaceful co-existence. And I accept what you are saying - that especially the Palestinian psyche is so screwed up right now - decades of war will tend to do that to a people. However, i believe that this stems mainly from lack of education, lack of self-determination, lack of control over their own situation, and a lack of hope. If we can begin to increase their educational opportunities, their level of control over their own lives, etc - then (i believe) the overall attitude would turn from one of hate to one of hope. What other choices do we have? Either kill them all, or kill all of one of the groups? None of those seem like actual choices to me - and realistically speaking, none of those would actually solve the problems.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: Krishna]
    #3571346 - 01/02/05 04:48 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, their only hope is education. Unfortunately, their corrupt leadership stole the billions of aid funneled their way for such things as education and nutrition and housing and used it to consolidate their kleptocratic position as power holders. But here is the truly sad part. Not one of their people even tried to stand up to these fucks. Not one. No press. No dissident. No prosecutor. Nobody. The feckless UN supported the thieves because they are of the same cloth. When a terrorist kleptocrat(dirtnap Arafuck) is considered the leader of the moderate side of your representation, and gets majority support, you are both stupid and doomed. The only heroes they have are splodeydopes. What did your educated friends do? Nothing. They abandoned their people like an NBA star from Watts or Bed Stuy. They desperately need a hero.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3571858 - 01/02/05 06:31 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

It's good to see Abba have moved on to something new. Their last album reunion tour seemed a little forced.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3571939 - 01/02/05 06:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Not one of their people even tried to stand up to these fucks. Not one. No press. No dissident. No prosecutor. Nobody.




I'm not sure about that... (not the stealing money part, i agree with you there - but the nobody standing up to it part)... i'll send an email to a few friends and see if they know of any groups that made formal protest against this...

Quote:


What did your educated friends do? Nothing. They abandoned their people like an NBA star from Watts or Bed Stuy. They desperately need a hero.




whoa now... don't jump the gun there. you certainly don't know what my friends have been doing. the israelis are all fighting in the army right now (except one girl i know who is an israeli-arab... they don't have to do military service) - and i know that every one of them is probably pissing off whole regiments by lecturing people about human rights, about laws of war, etc. i'm sure that having these people in the front lines has stopped illegal military action from taking plcae more than once. the palestinians I know are all pursuing higher education, this is true, but i'm quite sure that they wish to and will return to Palestine to work there. and all of these people are working with national organizations in their countries to get one of these international schools (they are called "united world colleges" - queen noor and nelson mandella are the presidents of the organization, if that says anything) established in the middle east - probably in Jordan, in order to have the opportunity to get 17-20 year old students from around the region to live, work, and study together - in order to hopefully come up with new and sustainable solutions to this old conflict... so my "educated friends" have not abandonded their people at all, and you saying this clearly indicates to me that you don't know my friends.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3572566 - 01/02/05 08:40 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

What is the difference between a Palestinian hardliner, and a Palestinian moderate????

the hardliner is willing to strap bombs to himself and kill Israels as a suicide bomber.

the moderate straps the bombs to a little child, and detonates the explosives with a remote control at the right moment.


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Invisiblemabus
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3572698 - 01/02/05 09:09 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Isrealis who have alot treat the Palestinians who have nothing like crap. I hope the crap wins and has its own country. I'm crap and want to see crap win. Crap never wins, but you never know...do ya.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: mabus]
    #3572864 - 01/02/05 09:54 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)


I hope the crap wins and has its own country. I'm crap and want to see crap win. Crap never wins, but you never know...do ya.

When there is a situation where one group is "crap" and one group is "cream", the cream usually wins in the short term, but the crap usually wins in the long run. And, unfortunately the crap usually ends up being way worse than the cream ever was.


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Invisiblemabus
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3572907 - 01/02/05 10:00 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Well said, crap is always crap and cream is always cream.


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Edited by mabus (01/02/05 10:04 PM)


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Invisiblemabus
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: mabus]
    #3572932 - 01/02/05 10:06 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

But I'm still pissed and hope the oil wells burn. And Isreal lives as brothers with the Palestinians. Can you imagine the power the both would have as one? The oil wells would be childs play.


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Invisiblemabus
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Re: Abbas Vows to Protect Palestinian Gunmen [Re: mabus]
    #3581994 - 01/05/05 12:33 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

My buddy in palistine emailed to mention that the palestines have no oil wells. And that they want peace anyway. I'm just posting this.


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