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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: zorbman]
    #6244544 -

If he was indeed referring to Bush, Kerry is still in error.

Bush was both in the National Guard as a pilot, and went to college.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6244745 -

And is stuck in Iraq.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: zorbman]
    #6245007 -

No. He stated that if you dont pay attention in school, blah blah blah you will end up in Iraq. Bush was both in the military and in school.......are they not both Skull and Bones??????????.....


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (11/03/06 08:38 PM)

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6245026 -

Kerry ought to just keep his mouth shut instead of giving Bush the PR advantage he needs to keep the repub's in power. Who the hell is Kerry working for anymore?

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6245200 -

Really does make ya think, Red


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6245212 -

SirTripAlot said:
No. He stated that if you dont pay attention in school, blah blah blah you will end up in Iraq. Bush was both in the military and in school.......are they not both Skull and Bones??????????.....


So what?

Almost everyone has been in school- he said nothing about Skull and Bones. His statement was taken out of context in a desperate move which will not succeed.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: zorbman]
    #6245251 -

Bullshit. He inferred that if you (or the President)did not do good in school, you can end up in Iraq. Bush's overall GPA in college is higher then Kerry's....so what the fuck?????

I am not defending the prez.....Kerry was stupid to say something that could even have been taken out of context.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6245273 -

Anything can be taken out of context if there are deceptive people who are also desperate. What he said was right on.

But he was a wimpy flip flopper to apologize.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: zorbman]
    #6245292 -

Deception and politics go hand in hand, especially during an election cycle. He is a dumb ass.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6245517 -

The joke wasnt even funny, it was wierd how he delivered it as well, and how the hell does someone give a speech fuck up so badly like that.

Quote:
You know, education -- if you make the most of it, you study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."



How the hell could anyone in their right mind not misconstrue that as an insult to the armed forces.

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6245548 -

Red, we might not agree on much, but, brother, right the fuck on!!!


I concur


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6245567 -

How the hell could anyone in their right mind not misconstrue that as an insult to the armed forces.


Misconstrue?

Well, unlike some I have read what Kerry actually said and he did not say "armed forces" or "troops" he said "you". This is basic English, folks. You is a pronoun which refers to a noun. The way to find out what "you" refers to is to find the previous noun used which in the case of Kerry's speech is the proper noun, "President Bush". Bush is the "you" referred to as Kerry had referenced him in the sentence just prior to the supposed troops comment. He had said prior to the famous clipped quote, "President Bush had lived in Texas, but now lives in a state of denial."

"In presenting the issue of whether Kerry intended to criticize the troops as a he-said/she-said conflict, these outlets omitted the evidence supporting Kerry's account. Indeed, according to his staff, his prepared remarks demonstrate what he meant to say: "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."

Also overlooked is the fact that Kerry's remark came after several one-liners, including one in which he personally accused Bush of "liv[ing] in a state of denial." Furthermore, these outlets ignored entirely the remarks by several prominent Republicans -- such as former Bush campaign chief strategist Matthew Dowd and former House Majority Leaders Dick Armey (R-TX) and Tom DeLay (R-TX) -- conceding that Kerry did not intend to disparage American soldiers. Armey even acknowledged that Republicans were making political hay by "misconstru[ing]" what Kerry said."

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2006/11/context_needed_.html

Republicans are desperate and are grasping for any life jacket they can reach including illusionary ones.

What they are doing is a bit like shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic to get the best view of the iceberg.



--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Edited by zorbman (11/03/06 11:43 PM)

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6245569 -

agreed, i disagree with the statement as a whole as well out of context or in context.

Ive known many smart people in the military, the people who are doing it right is the Marine Corps, IMO they are the only ones who try to advance their tactics and honestly care about their people on the field. They are the only armed force who espouse my favorite military theorists, John Robb, William Lind and John Boyd.

if your interested in strategy at all check those people out.

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: zorbman]
    #6245580 -

regardless of whether it was out of context or in context, it was a very fucking stupid thing to say especially before election time. Im not saying he's insulting the military or bush, its a fucking incredibly stupid thing to say that probably cost democrats a lot of voters.

dont get me wrong, i dont like Bush at all, but watching the democrats lose to Bush and the Repubs makes my sides hurt. Ill reiterate again, Who the hell is Kerry working for?

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: Gijith]
    #6245584 -

"A vote for Berry is a vote for very... good government!"

The Republicans have nothing to go on so they're attacking stupid Kerry quotes as their main platform. The Democrats have everything to go on but, sadly, they're only marginally better than the Republicans.

Two puppets controlled by the same puppet master. The best possible situation would be that the government would be jammed, with the House and/ or Senate voting down all of Bush's initiatives and Bush veoting all the Democrat's initiatives. Now that would be very... good government.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: Ravus]
    #6246367 -

I certainly didn't "misconstrue" what he was saying. Even without context, I thought he was speaking of Bush. The only people that would like to think he was talking to the troops are Republicans. And his reason for an apology was apoloigizing for not making it clear enough and making a comment open for context killing.


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I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: zorbman]
    #6246684 -

zorbman said:
How the hell could anyone in their right mind not misconstrue that as an insult to the armed forces.


Misconstrue?

Well, unlike some I have read what Kerry actually said and he did not say "armed forces" or "troops" he said "you". This is basic English, folks. You is a pronoun which refers to a noun. The way to find out what "you" refers to is to find the previous noun used which in the case of Kerry's speech is the proper noun, "President Bush".


Are you a native English speaker? I only ask because that is one of the most ridiculous grammatical assertions I have ever read. He was admonishing a group of students to work and study hard. The "you" referred to the people that he was addressing. If you think that the "you" I used at the start of this sentence refers to the the previous noun, "people", or the previous pronoun "he", you are really, really lost.

If he had inserted the "us" that he said he intended to (yeah right), that could have been construed to include everybody in the room and a few others outside as well. But he didn't. He wasn't "misconstrued" either. There really is only one way to interprete what he said, ESPECIALLY considering the context, which was addressing a bunch of college students in the land of fruits and nuts
Quote:
Bush is the "you" referred to as Kerry had referenced him in the sentence just prior to the supposed troops comment. He had said prior to the famous clipped quote, "President Bush had lived in Texas, but now lives in a state of denial."


He mis-spoke (at best). The arrogant cunt was most certainly not misconstrued. Just to continue your education in grammar, I will parse the above sentence with an implied word in parentheses.

"President Bush had lived in Texas, but (he) now lives in a state of denial."

As you will have noticed, the word in parentheses is not "(you)" nor does the verb agree with anything other than a 3rd person subject.
Quote:



"In presenting the issue of whether Kerry intended to criticize the troops as a he-said/she-said conflict, these outlets omitted the evidence supporting Kerry's account. Indeed, according to his staff, his prepared remarks demonstrate what he meant to say: "Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."


Which is all very fine, if he had actually said that. But he didn't. He said this.
"You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”


To further destroy your grammatical analysis, there are ten "you"s in those two sentences. The very first one doesn't refer to Bush, but to the audience, so much for setting up a pattern of usage by which any native English speaker could misconstrue that sentence. The meaning of the sentence as uttered is clear. "If you don't (do well) you get stuck in Iraq". Or do you think the "you" in the last sentence refers to homework?
Quote:


Also overlooked is the fact that Kerry's remark came after several one-liners, including one in which he personally accused Bush of "liv[ing] in a state of denial." Furthermore, these outlets ignored entirely the remarks by several prominent Republicans -- such as former Bush campaign chief strategist Matthew Dowd and former House Majority Leaders Dick Armey (R-TX) and Tom DeLay (R-TX) -- conceding that Kerry did not intend to disparage American soldiers. Armey even acknowledged that Republicans were making political hay by "misconstru[ing]" what Kerry said."

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2006/11/context_needed_.html



What outlets? And why should they restrict their opinions to the mildest reading by any Republican. Kerry is a dipshit, he misspoke and he should have clarified his shit immediately, instead of grabbing a soapbox and declaring victimhood (the natural state of all Democrats), refusing to apologize "to anyone", and then blaming the stupid listener for "misconstruing" what he said. No, John boy, unfortunately we are smart enough to understand what you say, but not smart enough to read your mind. If we could, we wouldn't still be wondering about your military records and why you won't release them.
Quote:
Republicans are desperate and are grasping for any life jacket they can reach including illusionary ones.

What they are doing is a bit like shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic to get the best view of the iceberg.




Maybe, maybe not. Kerry is still a piece of shit, and not just because of this. I really do believe that Kerry thinks only losers go in the military. I just never thought he'd be dumb enough to say it totally out loud. The apparent attitude that troops are dumb is not all that foreign to him.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061102/D8L4QH580.html
"During a Vietnam-era run for Congress three decades ago, John Kerry said he opposed a volunteer Army because it would be dominated by the underprivileged, be less accountable and be more prone to "the perpetuation of war crimes."

There were also some much more recent quotes that the troops were "terrorizing innocent Iraqi women and children in the dead of night" Or something like that.

Now there are a great many of you here who think that it's true that military is a bunch of undereducated idiot losers. I did recently see a newspaper article that reported that the military had a 96% rate of HS graduates while the general population is at around 80%. Then there are the service academies, which are harder to get into than most, if not all, Ivy League schools.

And finally, I have never found it particularly smart to denigrate an opponent who has defeated me and gotten better grades than I did. What does that make Kerry? I know the answer, but do you? (For Zorby: the "you" in that sentence does not refer to "answer")


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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6248239 -

The "you" clearly refers to President Bush.

English 101.

Context.

Very useful.  :wink:


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: zorbman]
    #6249215 -

what does somebodys GPA from over 30 years ago have to do with thier intelligence today? I know people back in high school (for me 3 years ago) who were brilliant individuals but now can barely keep thier shit together to do well in college. getting good grades in college is simply a matter of motivation and classes you take. for example ive taken a few 300 level classes in subjects that i never even took a 101 class in and got A's. On the flipside ive taken classes in my field of study and done horrible in them, which is mostly due to me feeling cocky because ive been in so many other related classes and i do not try hard enough.

basicly all im trying to say is dont pass judgment about somebodies intelligence based off of thier academic performances from a point in thier life that most people just spend getting piss drunk every weekend (or in bush's case snorting coke).


--------------------
"If you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, then go home and burn all your records, all your tapes, and all your CDs because every one of those artists who have made brilliant music and enhanced your lives? The Beatles were so fucking high, they let Ringo sing a few songs." --Bill Hicks

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Re: Will Kerry Apologize? [Re: zorbman]
    #6249426 -

zorbman said:
The "you" clearly refers to President Bush.

English 101.

Context.

Very useful.  :wink:


It's funny how everybody but you, including Kerry, agrees he mis-spoke (at best).  By the way, the "you" in the above sentence doesn't refer to "everybody".  He began his statement with "You know".  Did that "you" refer to Bush?  No it did not.  It referred to the college students in the audience at a California University.  There's context for you.  There's also the context of him considering an all volunteer army to be made up of misfits, as stated in the link I provided above.  There's some more context.  And the accusation he made of troops terrorizing women and children in the dead of night (he went on to say the Iraqis should be doing that).  More context.

He's an asshole but even he isn't dumb enough to try your preposterous spin.


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