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Re: Sen John Kerry statement=Fall of the democratic party [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1432731 -

Quote:
Heh,  Oh you have joined the shroomery's coalition of the not so witty...

But keep up the good work.  :grin: 


Argumentum ad hominem?

No thanks, I'd rather not.

:grin: :grin: :grin:

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Re: Sen John Kerry statement=Fall of the democratic party [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1432732 -

Quote:
How am I perverting them?


Those polling choices are not mutually exclusive as you're trying to claim. You're trying to turn the tables by changing the topic with a specious fallacy of logic. That's how!


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: Sen John Kerry statement=Fall of the democratic party [Re: ]
    #1432744 -

Oh come on, I mean.. I used you guy's  :cool: :smile: :smile: :laugh: tactic

Heh.

Mr Mushroom, I appreciate that you have an opinon upon this based upon life experience, that is more then most-- but really, what does one expect when you totally discount someone else's opinion with rather broad terms and no data to back it up and then tell someone they are way off topic on an issue that is something that I actually have invested a bit of time into researching?== not 30 years, but enough to support a couple of winning political campaigns where these were key issues?  Enough to hold a dear friend's hand after her first child died of a congenital heart defect....  we all have our battle scars and Im glad that there are people like us who actual know atleast something of what these decisions are about and what they can do to the lives of mothers, siblings, and foetuses.  Just because I say something is so, doesnt make it so.. and vice versa.   

RailGun, there are many who would think that is a valid arguement and they have been making it for some time.  See, since partial birth abortions, again, arent done on a whim-- but only in cases of inviability or harm to the mother, what they really are fits more closely with physical impairment statistics on that poll then with the term "Partial Birth Abortion".  But I agree with you to disagree and get back to Mr. Kerry's statement, which was brilliant, by the way.


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Edited by PsiloKitten (04/05/03 11:56 PM)

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Re: Sen John Kerry statement=Fall of the democratic party [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1432802 -

Quote:
Just how is medical science supposed to diagnose physical, congenital or chromosonal problems prior to the third trimester?


I don't know the names of all the tests, but my wife had them performed during her pregnancies of our son and daughter, before the third trimester. Let's see... there's amniocentesis, sonograms, x-rays.

Oh, I know plenty of woman who are opposed to abortion, my wife being one of them (she's also an atheist so don't go assuming a religious angle).

In regards to partial birth abortions, if the baby is delivered far enough to expose the head, then the birth is halted to shove a shunt is into the base of it's skull in order to scramble it's brains, it's EXTREMELY QUESTIONABLE that the procedure is to save the life of the mother. This is merely an excuse for infanticide. This is barbarism, plain and simple. I find it hypocritical that anyone could be against war waged against a murderous regime but be for partial birth abortions. This is incongruous. Perhaps it is CONVENIENT to be against a war but INCONVENIENT to be against infanticide during the process of birth.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Edited by Evolving (04/06/03 12:29 AM)

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Re: Sen John Kerry statement=Fall of the democratic party [Re: Evolving]
    #1432832 -

Amnio can be preformed at the end of the first trimester relatively safely but carries a significant miscarriage risk the earlier it is preformed... 12 weeks is the absolute earlies and that puts you into the last week of your first trimester.  There is still a risk of placenta previa, so most doctors recommend waiting until the 15th -19th week, infact most wont preform the proceedure until after then

CVS, which is really the clincher and most women who are under 36 and healthy dont usually have to worry about is a pretty invasive proceedure that is usually recommended mid to late second trimester, but in the last 2-3 years has been  done as early as the 10-12th week.  Again, the end of the first trimester.  Again, even if the tests didnt take anywhere from 3 to ten days to process, you would still be at the absolute threshold for consentual abortion.

I could go into the advanced testing that they can do, but lord.. I hope your wife wasnt getting X-RAYS!  If so, you should think about sueing your obstetrician. :frown:  Noninvasive proceedures like, ultrasound cannot detect most of the abnormalities that would make this proceedure nessecary.  Perhaps, congenital heart defects and organ problems.

Im not for the current process of partial birth abortions.  Although again, it isnt just done that way.. some women goes into labor and they are like, yeah-- lets kill it now.  This is a proceedure, not a shock and awe campaign.  I do agree that the d & c is invasive and pretty barbaric.  But on the other hand I do understand the plight of someone that chose not to have the proceedure and have seen the repercussions on the very short  life of the child as well as the long life of the family.  If I was faced with the decision in my last weeks of pregnancy to terminate or suffer through watching my child die after birth, Id choose the latter, just to see the face of the amazing little creature that I had somehow created-- but I cannot deny someone the ability to terminate a pregnancy that nas no possibility of surviving.   


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Edited by PsiloKitten (04/06/03 12:50 AM)

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Re: Sen John Kerry statement=Fall of the democratic party [Re: Skikid16]
    #1433846 -

What about Colin Powell?

I'm glad you asked. One would think that as the only one among the group with any combat experience he would have a bigger say in how the war is prosecuted. In fact, he has less of a say than any of the people I've mentioned. Instead, he has the uneviable job of running around the world trying to convince a skeptical world to support an unnecessary and illegal war.

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Re: Sen John Kerry statement=Fall of the democratic party [Re: ]
    #1433852 -

What do the Clintons have to do with Kerry or with my post? Two years the guy's been gone already and you're still nursing your grievances. I thought you were above such emotionalism, Mr. Mushrooms.

Sure, I'll wager you $100 that Bush, Jr. is not reelected. If he is in fact re-elected that will be the least of my problems. And if he isn't re-elected that will make the spectacle of his hubris meeting a fitting end that much sweeter.

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Re: Sen John Kerry statement=Fall of the democratic party [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1434014 -

Cool!  100 bucks is the same figure I thought would make it interesting but not too hard to take.

I explained the correlation between the Klintons and what Kerry said.  In my view "ballsy" is a euphemism for idiotic, risky, ill-thought-out, etc.

It's not emotionalism at all, just facts.  The way I look at it is this.  I can't lose.  If Bush wins I get some cash and if he loses he can't do anymore signifcant damage.  Which is also unlike the Klintons.  Hillary! is in the senate and we may never get rid of her. :frown:  And her winky dink husband considered running for mayor of NYC and know rumor has it the head of the UN.  The two of them are like a fucking virus.

And as far as the Klinton debacle is concerned, I made myself a promise to remind everyone I know about his "legacy" *cough* *cough* for as long as we were reminded about Nixon and his screw-up.  I figure, fair is fair.

Nixon and Klintone, what a fine pair of American Statesmen those guys were.  Too bad they weren't from the same party.  They would have made great running mates.  :smirk:

Cheers, :smile: 

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General Interest > Political Discussion
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