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 grib
Registered: 03/01/03
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 "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." 
#3044204 - 08/24/04 12:33 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Said Clackamas County district attorney Alfred French. Unfortunately his statements are hearsay. As a DA you would think that Mr. French would at least give a nod to 'known fact' vs. 'hearsay'.
Quote:
In an interview with The Oregonian newspaper last week, French said he relied on the accounts of three other veterans in making the statement about Kerry and did not personally witness the events.
The creditability of Mr. French should be diminished in the eyes of the citizens of Clackamas County. I wouldn't want this guy speaking for me.
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Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad Oregon Vets Protest Assistant District Attorney's Statement in Ad That Kerry Lies About Record The Associated Press
PORTLAND, Ore. Aug. 24, 2004 ? Several Vietnam veterans are calling for an assistant district attorney to resign after questions were raised about his statement in a recent ad criticizing Democrat John Kerry's military service.
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. In the spot, French says: "I served with John Kerry. ... He is lying about his record."
A group of Vietnam veterans who protested outside the county courthouse Monday said French implied he had firsthand knowledge of Kerry's war actions when in fact he had heard about what Kerry did from friends.
In an interview with The Oregonian newspaper last week, French said he relied on the accounts of three other veterans in making the statement about Kerry and did not personally witness the events. French did not return two messages left at his office Monday.
"As a senior assistant district attorney, you know as well as we do that that kind of ridiculous statement would never pass muster in a court of law," veteran Terry Kirsch said of French's account.
"We question your fitness to serve as an enforcer of the law after swearing to facts in a legal affidavit that you do not know to be true," he said.
Before recording the ad, French signed an affidavit that said: "I am able to swear, as I do hereby swear, that all facts and statements contained in this affidavit are true and correct and within my personal knowledge and belief."
It goes on to say that "Kerry has wildly exaggerated and lied about his record in Vietnam" and that he received his Purple Heart medals "in the absence of hostile fire."
Kerry was awarded three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star as commander of a Navy swift boat in Vietnam.
District Attorney John Foote released a statement Monday chiding French for bringing unwanted publicity to the suburban county's office, but stood by his employee.
"I do not personally share the opinions expressed by our prosecutor," Foote wrote. "However, all of our employees have the right to their own opinions on these subjects and to express their opinions on their own time."
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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>
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 Innvertigo
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: grib]
#3044325 - 08/24/04 01:13 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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fortunatly for Alfred French, he's not on trial, in a court nor pleading a case.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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grib
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Innvertigo]
#3044422 - 08/24/04 01:44 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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fortunately...
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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: grib]
#3044595 - 08/24/04 02:29 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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EXACTLY.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Swami
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: grib]
#3044652 - 08/24/04 02:43 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Attacking Kerry's record, is an attack on the entire chain of Naval command at that time. Medals are NOT handed out on the word of the potential recipient of the award (doh!) They are based on accounts of those who served with him and his commanding officer and an investigation by special committee. (I was a Viet Nam Era Navy vet).
Yet no one is slamming the investigators nor his commander! Why not? Doesn't look good to say the entire chain was duped and was full of imcompetents. There would be a major backlash.
Why were these indignant Swift Boat vets not speaking out 30 years ago? Were they pussies then that suddenly grew balls? Have their memories improved? (Hint: $$$) 
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The proof is in the pudding.
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retread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Swami]
#3044747 - 08/24/04 03:07 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
Attacking Kerry's record, is an attack on the entire chain of Naval command at that time. Medals are NOT handed out on the word of the potential recipient of the award (doh!) They are based on accounts of those who served with him and his commanding officer and an investigation by special committee. (I was a Viet Nam Era Navy vet).
Excerpted from http://frontierwebdesign.com/stopjohn/archives/000208.htm
"As of May 17, 220 of the 229 Swift boat veterans contacted by the group have agreed to sign an open letter to Senator John F. Kerry that challenges his fitness to serve as America's Commander-in-Chief. Signers of the letter include the entire chain of command above Lt. John Kerry in Vietnam: Lt. Commander Grant Hibbard, Lt. Commander George Elliott, Captain Charles Plumly, Captain Adrian Lonsdale USCG, and Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman"
I read somewhere that his CO didn't want to sign off on his medals, but he constantly bagered him until he did.
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Swami
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: retread]
#3044817 - 08/24/04 03:22 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I read somewhere...
Very convincing!
...that his CO didn't want to sign off on his medals, but he constantly bagered him until he did.
A commanding office *drum roll please* COMMANDS, else he is unfit for duty. He does not kowtow.
Signers of the letter include the entire chain of command above Lt. John Kerry in Vietnam.
The awarding of a medal MUST be signed off by the chain-of-command. This is either an error, they are hypocrites, or they failed to do their duty at the time.
Which is it?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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retread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Swami]
#3044839 - 08/24/04 03:28 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't know and I don't care. Do you think it's a usual occurance for a 4 month veteran to have a chest full of medals, and that the unusual occurance has some causal factor ? Or did the amount of medals he received come to about par for the course of Navy personnel in-country in 'nam
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Swami
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: retread]
#3044900 - 08/24/04 03:42 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I did not see combat so cannot comment on its "usualness". All I can tell you is YOU CANNOT AWARD A MEDAL TO YOURSELF. Got it?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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retread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Swami]
#3044918 - 08/24/04 03:46 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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How long were you there? Did you ever recieve any "wounds" that require band-aid level of medical attention? how many medals do you have? From your experience, is that normal to have THAT MANY medals? How many medals did his underlings get?
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Zahid
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: retread]
#3044935 - 08/24/04 03:50 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't see how being wounded the most makes someone a better leader.
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zappaisgod
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Swami]
#3045046 - 08/24/04 04:22 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
Attacking Kerry's record, is an attack on the entire chain of Naval command at that time.
You have got to be kidding. Any dedicated scammer can game a system as bloated as the military. Kerry knew the rules and he got out after 4 months because he finagled 2 phony purple hearts. You don't HAVE to leave after 3 but you can. He sure didn't seem interested in sticking around. He is a self-aggrandizing cunt campaigning on a lie. He never should've brought this shit up. There was a POW talking about how Hanoi Hannah gleefully played his senate testimony describing American soldiers as baby-killing criminals while he was a prisoner. These guys really, really hate his fucking guts because he is a total cunt. And will anybody tell me what this fuck-noodle stands for anyway? Just what legislation has he produced in all his decades in the Senate?
I'm telling you all, this is a bad guy. He's even a fucking gold-digger, which is a whore, only smarter. I hate him and everything he stands for.
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Evolving
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: zappaisgod]
#3045151 - 08/24/04 04:47 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Don't sugar coat it, tell us how you REALLY feel.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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retread
-=HasH=-
Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 851
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Zahid]
#3045267 - 08/24/04 05:09 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Do your muscles ache from dodging my questions so often?
How long were you in Vietnam, and how many medals do you have? Did you ever recieve an injury that required a band-aid, and did you recieve any medals or special commendations for it? Do you know people that served four months, in any capacity, and came back with the same, or even close to, number of medals that Kerry did? Do you know many vets who have three purple hearts but probably couldn't produce ONE scar to show what they got them for? My father was one of the "chosin" few and hes got the scars and the limp from his ONE purple heart. If you don't feel like answering my questions, please do post some innane off topic non sequitor remark, the people that read it will know whats up when they see that.
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Innvertigo
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record. [Re: Swami]
#3045319 - 08/24/04 05:19 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
(I was a Viet Nam Era Navy vet).
wow, you could be president!!
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Zahid
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: retread]
#3045349 - 08/24/04 05:26 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Have you ever seen a Indochinese cheese cloth? That's what this election is like.
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grib
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: retread]
#3045401 - 08/24/04 05:39 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
retread said:
Quote:
Swami said:
Attacking Kerry's record, is an attack on the entire chain of Naval command at that time. Medals are NOT handed out on the word of the potential recipient of the award (doh!) They are based on accounts of those who served with him and his commanding officer and an investigation by special committee. (I was a Viet Nam Era Navy vet).
Excerpted from http://frontierwebdesign.com/stopjohn/archives/000208.htm
"As of May 17, 220 of the 229 Swift boat veterans contacted by the group have agreed to sign an open letter to Senator John F. Kerry that challenges his fitness to serve as America's Commander-in-Chief. Signers of the letter include the entire chain of command above Lt. John Kerry in Vietnam: Lt. Commander Grant Hibbard, Lt. Commander George Elliott, Captain Charles Plumly, Captain Adrian Lonsdale USCG, and Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman"
I read somewhere that his CO didn't want to sign off on his medals, but he constantly bagered him until he did.
LOL! Who are http://frontierwebdesign.com/ ? Stop Hanoi John... 
Thanks for the laugh 
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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Evolving]
#3045761 - 08/24/04 06:44 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Evolving said:
Don't sugar coat it, tell us how you REALLY feel.
I bet he meant to say Kerry is a poop-head.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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zappaisgod
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#3045807 - 08/24/04 06:55 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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He's a doodie.
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Worf
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: grib]
#3046643 - 08/24/04 10:47 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Alfred French said in the ad and swore in an affidavit, ?I served with John Kerry. ... He is lying about his record.? French subsequently acknowledged he relied on the accounts of other veterans and did not witness Kerry in combat.
That guy must be a scuba diver because when he walks it goes FLIPPITY FLOP FLOP FLOP!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5807010/
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Swami
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: zappaisgod]
#3046921 - 08/24/04 11:57 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Attacking Kerry's record, is an attack on the entire chain of Naval command at that time.
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You have got to be kidding. Any dedicated scammer can game a system as bloated as the military.
Sounds like you are in agreement with me.
These guys really, really hate his fucking guts because he is a total cunt.
They hate him because of their opinion of him. How revealingly redundant. In what case is that not true? Have you served? I doubt it.
Just what legislation has he produced in all his decades in the Senate?
And this relates to Viet Nam in what manner? It doesn't. This type of emotionalism makes getting nearer to the truth almost impossible.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Swami]
#3049293 - 08/25/04 04:22 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
Attacking Kerry's record, is an attack on the entire chain of Naval command at that time.
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You have got to be kidding. Any dedicated scammer can game a system as bloated as the military.
Sounds like you are in agreement with me.
Any enormous bureaocracy is going to be vulnerable to an even slightly talented scammer. I think indictment is a bit strong
These guys really, really hate his fucking guts because he is a total cunt.
They hate him because of their opinion of him. How revealingly redundant. In what case is that not true? Have you served? I doubt it.
This is just somewhat dumb. They developed their opinion of him based on their experience of his behaviour. It was cuntish. That's my opinion. His approval rating among veterans is somewhere around the 30% range. Apparently, a great many of them share my opinion, based on their own observations. And no, I didn't serve. I came of age for that in 1974, when all of Kerry's demonization of servicemen was at it's height. The military then was vilified more than any other time I can recall. I wouldn't have gone near it for anything and would have left the country rather than be drafted. Vietnam was a bad idea and the people in charge (Kennedy/Johnson) were utterly incompetent.
Just what legislation has he produced in all his decades in the Senate?
And this relates to Viet Nam in what manner? It doesn't. This type of emotionalism makes getting nearer to the truth almost impossible.
The point here is that the guy spent 4 months in Vietnam and decades in the Senate and all HE talks about is Vietnam. WHAT HAS HE DONE? WHAT DOES HE INTEND TO DO? He absolutely refuses to divulge his secret plans. As far as I can tell, he's willing to be in the first boat back to pick up a swimmer. The rest is a mystery.
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Phred
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Swami]
#3050807 - 08/25/04 09:53 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Swami writes:
Why were these indignant Swift Boat vets not speaking out 30 years ago? Were they pussies then that suddenly grew balls? Have their memories improved? (Hint: $$$)
You might want to read this editorial:
http://www.nationalreview.com/novak/novak200408240921.asp --
"The Swift Boat Vets, of course, have been realists. They knew that very few Americans ? and virtually no one in the press ? cared that they had been dishonored or would do anything about it. So they got on with their lives. Then, during the past year, two things electrified them and gave them a renewed sense of duty. The first was the publication of Douglas Brinkley's "Tour of Duty", with its many direct quotes from Kerry's journals and its uncritical, full-tilt representation of Kerry's version of events. The second was the possibility that a man they had learned to distrust because of the lies he told about them might become president, and then lie about the veterans of the war in Iraq."
and
"After John Kerry's two campaign books came out ? the more scholarly one by historian Douglas Brinkley and the more or less official one by writers from the Boston Globe ? the Swift Boat Vets grasped for the first time John Kerry's view of his four-months service with them (from November 17, 1968 to March 17, 1969). In Brinkley, they read for the first time Kerry's contemporaneous (and also his recent) reports on that period ? and they were shocked."
Those are just two excerpts. If your question was sincere rather than made solely to score cheap points against decorated Viet Nam vets (all of whom served their entire tour of duty except those who were invalided out), you might want to read the whole thing.
pinky
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Swami
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Phred]
#3054005 - 08/26/04 03:09 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Think on this: Kerry was near the top of Nixon's shit list, yet Nixon said nothing of Kerry's war record or medals. Now why do you think he would not have brought this out if there was even a hint to any of the allegations?
This should be a good wiggle folks - stay tuned...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Zahid
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 Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Swami]
#3054064 - 08/26/04 03:22 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Kerry wasn't the one running against Nixon, simple.
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Swami
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Zahid]
#3054142 - 08/26/04 03:37 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good try, but no. (C+)
Kerry was certainly hurting public opinion against the Nixon-backed war and Nixon was notoriously viscious against ALL enemies and not just during campaign season.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Zahid
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Swami]
#3054152 - 08/26/04 03:39 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Calm down Swami, we're both liberals here.
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Swami
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Zahid]
#3054169 - 08/26/04 03:42 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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*Swamster checks blood pressure: 110/70.  *
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The proof is in the pudding.
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zappaisgod
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Swami]
#3054176 - 08/26/04 03:44 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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A little high for a bot
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Zahid
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: zappaisgod]
#3054194 - 08/26/04 03:51 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's what I was thinking.
Don't you have ducks to feed, zappaisgod? 
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Swami
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: zappaisgod]
#3054195 - 08/26/04 03:52 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hydraulic fluid has a different viscosity than blood.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Zahid]
#3054201 - 08/26/04 03:54 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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My ducks are all in a row
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Zahid
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: zappaisgod]
#3054205 - 08/26/04 03:55 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't get it. Are you going to kill them?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Zahid]
#3054240 - 08/26/04 04:06 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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First I will force feed them to produce an imitation fois gras and then I will kill them.
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Zahid
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: zappaisgod]
#3054252 - 08/26/04 04:11 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Is that what old Americans do?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: Zahid]
#3054254 - 08/26/04 04:12 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes
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Zahid
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: zappaisgod]
#3054268 - 08/26/04 04:15 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good idea.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record." [Re: grib]
#3086866 - 09/03/04 10:26 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Did you guys hear that a new group called "Delaware Crossers For Truth" has just come out calling George Washington unfit to be President?
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Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
Edited by Learyfan (09/03/04 10:27 AM)
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Shroomism
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record. [Re: Learyfan]
#3086879 - 09/03/04 10:30 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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too bad that's rediculous because washington was president over 200 years ago and you can't change the past and dwelling on it doesn't do anyone any good. Plus washington was a great president.
If anyone is unfit to be president, it's bush.
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Learyfan
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record. [Re: Shroomism]
#3087001 - 09/03/04 11:03 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's true. Who would joke about such a thing?
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)
Registered: 09/06/02
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record. [Re: grib]
#3087561 - 09/03/04 01:16 PM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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Anything is possible,and it's surely possible that Kerry lied about the events in Vietnam,but for every person that says it was a sham,there are ten others who confirm the events. Why should I trust these few people with little evidence to back it up,especially when there is a huge politcal motivation for doing so? Like Swami said,where were these people years ago? War hawks have been trying to dig up shit about Kerry for the last 30 years.
It makes me sick that fucking righties take this swift vote veterans crap like the word of god. Like I said,I don't now what happened,I wasn't there.But if you make accusations like this,the you damn well better be able to back it up with some facts.
I dunno how relevant this is,but my dad was stationed near the Combodian border during the Tet Offensive in the Navy. He hates that war with every ounce of his being,and he even has the post truamtic stress disorder (shellshock) to back it up. My dad even leans toward the right and hates anything to do with the war with every ounce of his being,but he thinks these assholes are slap in the face to everybody that served there.
/end rant
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: "I served with John Kerry. He is lying about his record. [Re: monoamine]
#3090579 - 09/04/04 08:19 AM (19 years, 7 months ago) |
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monoamine writes:
Anything is possible,and it's surely possible that Kerry lied about the events in Vietnam,but for every person that says it was a sham,there are ten others who confirm the events.
Actually, that's incorrect. You have the ratio reversed. As just one example, the only person so far who has said he was in Cambodia is John F Kerry. Not only hasn't a single other Swiftie (not even any of the nine or ten on his side) confirmed it, but everyone from the others in his unit all the way up the chain of command has explicitly denied it.
It makes me sick that fucking righties take this swift vote veterans crap like the word of god. Like I said,I don't now what happened,I wasn't there.But if you make accusations like this,the you damn well better be able to back it up with some facts.
Clearly you have done no independent reading on this -- you have accepted the biased media "reporting" as gospel. Kerry's own journals (as quoted in David Brinkley's biography of Kerry) show he was never in Cambodia. They also show his first Purple Heart was bogus. There are other documents supporting the Swiftie's position as well. It is true that some of the incidents they mention depend on which eyewitness accounts one chooses to believe, but that is far from the case with all of their claims.
The Swifties can back up their claims. The problem is that Kerry and the mainstream press would prefer to try to smear those making the claims rather than to discredit the claims. This may be because they feel that is sufficient to make the claims go away, but it is more likely that in many cases the claims simply cannot be refuted. Again, even the Kerry campaign has conceded the Cambodia claim and the first Purple Heart claim.
My dad even leans toward the right and hates anything to do with the war with every ounce of his being,but he thinks these assholes are slap in the face to everybody that served there.
The Swifites feel that Kerry's actions after returning from Viet Nam, particularly his lying testimony before the senate, are a slap in the face to everybody who served there.
Kerry could defuse a lot of this by apologizing to Viet Nam vets for his actions after returning from Viet Nam. He could address the Swiftie's claims by releasing his military records, which he once promised to do but still hasn't done. My prediction is that he will never sign the 180 form because the Swiftie's claims are correct.
pinky
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