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OfflineElPrimo
journeyman
Registered: 09/29/01
Posts: 92
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Enron and Republican wives...
    #531642 - 01/26/02 03:49 AM (15 years, 9 hours ago)

Wendy Grahm, wife of Sen Phil Grahm (GOP-TX), was in charge of the gov't policy bd that determined what debt corporations had to disclose. She had this job under GW Bush Sr. Just before Clinton took office (early 1993) she recev'd $200,000 from Enron and rushed thru a policy allowing them to avoid reporting certain types of debt on their books.

Then she resigned and took a job with them as a member of the Board of Directors. For this she got $50,000 a year (you actually have to meet a couple of times a year and work for a day or two) for the past 10 years.. What's funny is how she is saying she lost over $600,000 in deferred income because of the collapse. LOL As if that makes her look any better. Poor thing... wonder what she was supposed to have done to earn that?

These GOP hacks are so blatently bought and paid for it is outrageous. While both Partys took money from Enron, 74% went to Republicans. Of course most corporate money does. Republicans call this is 'Free Speech'!!!



Tom Delay (2nd or 3rd most powerful GOP house member) has his wife working for a P/R firm that recev'd over $200,00 from Enron last year. He always voted to help Enron avoid any Gov't oversight as well.

Apparently, these types of deals don't have to be reported either.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: ElPrimo]
    #531647 - 01/26/02 03:56 AM (15 years, 9 hours ago)

Who really helped Enron?
Thursday, January 24, 2002 2:30 PM EST

Clinton's S.E.C. Enabled Enron Fiasco

Turns out that Bill Clinton's sorry tenure may very well have directly enabled the Enron fiasco.

NewsMax columnist and former Congressman Dan Frisa reports that when the Republican-controlled Congress turned down Enron's insistence on an exemption to the Investment Company Act of 1940 amendments passed in 1996, Enron went to the Clinton administration for "administrative relief."

Frisa served on the powerful House Commerce committee at the time and was integrally involved in the drafting and passage of the reform legislation, as a co-sponsor of the law.

Recalling at the time that these requests from Enron seemed odd, Frisa said they were dismissed by the committee and not included in the bill.

Enron then moved its lobbying efforts over to the Clinton Securities and Exchange Commission, where it was promptly granted exemptions from the laws protecting investors from the very abuses its executives later committed!

Far from either a Bush or Republican scandal, the Democrats are once again instead finding their own fingerprints on this latest abuse of power, despite their best efforts to manufacture a problem for the President and his party.



--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #531652 - 01/26/02 04:02 AM (15 years, 9 hours ago)

BTW the article I posted was from : http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11887&pagenumber=1

But the fact is that neither the republicans or democRats were at fault with this Enron scandle.

Dubya didn't rip off enron or enron employees. He is friendly with the oil companies in general, not just enron. But Bush didn't have anything to do with enron's collapse. It was the result of fiscal mismanagement. The executives and accountants are at fault if anyone is. And there really isn't enough evidence to throw around allegations about them, yet. This case is going to be one of the biggest paper cases in US history. And they might not even have broken the law, despite the executives deciet it may not have been technically illegal. If the justice dept has 20 lawyers put together a conclusive paper case against the execs the execs can argue that it's inconclusive with their own evidence. These sort of paper cases are very difficult to get convictions on.

The Bush and other republican/democrat campaigns took in millions of dollars from thousands of donors. Taking campaign money does not make the recipient responsible for the actions for the donor. To argue that it does would be unreasonable.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisibleisis
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Registered: 05/16/01
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Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #531974 - 01/26/02 02:04 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Can anybody say Campaign Finance Reform!!!!
I also wonder why our Vice president and president refuse to release the list of Corporate executives that the vice president met with to make the energy proposal they scammed up. For shame!!!!! An energy policy made up by the corporate energy executives themselves.How convenient. That energy policy should not ever be considered, period....How can it be.


Edited by isis (01/26/02 02:11 PM)


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OfflineElPrimo
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Registered: 09/29/01
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Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #532001 - 01/26/02 02:26 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

"Taking campaign money does not make the recipient responsible for the actions for the donor. "

No one is arguingthat althoiugh you would like to spin the storythat way. And as I stated, Wendy Grahm was head of the jSecurities and Exchange commision and passed the clause enabling Enron (and others) to avoid disclosing debt was her doing. This article was detailed in USA Today last Wednesday.

The Clinton Admin did make some calls about Enron's power plant in India (as did Bush) but they did not try and gut federal law to allow business freee reign to pollute, monopolize and cheat folks. That is and has always been a hallmark of the Republicans.. 'less goverment', remember?

Same way the Bush Admin is letting Microsoft get away with cheating and conducting unfair business practices. Big business will do ok and the GOP will do ok (scratching each others backs). It is the consumer who will get screwed. Same as always when the GOP has power.

oh, and I never meant to imply that the Dems don't have their hands out as well. However, the Republicans are at least 3 times as bad which makes them really scum in my book.


Edited by ElPrimo (01/26/02 02:29 PM)


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Invisibleisis
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Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: ElPrimo]
    #532018 - 01/26/02 02:48 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Here's an article I found in the New York Times today.It makes you wonder what they are hiding.

White House Could be Sued Over Cheney Advisers
By DON VAN NATTA Jr.


WASHINGTON, Jan. 25 ? The head of the General Accounting Office sent a strong signal today that he was prepared to go to court to force the White House to turn over the names of industry executives who advised Vice President Dick Cheney on national energy policy last spring.

In an interview today, David M. Walker, the comptroller general of the United States, suggested that a lawsuit against the Bush administration was almost certain if the White House failed to provide the information by the end of next week.

It would be the first time in its history that the accounting office, the Congressional auditing agency that the comptroller general heads, sued a federal entity or federal official for information.

"I am hopeful that we are not going to have to go to court, but I will do what I have to do to serve my client and protect the G.A.O.'s rights," Mr. Walker said.

Mr. Walker and Mr. Cheney spoke by telephone on Thursday about the disagreement, but no compromise was reached, officials said today. No further discussions are scheduled, the officials said.

A lawsuit would intensify pressure on Mr. Cheney at a time when the Bush administration is under scrutiny and criticism from Democrats for its dealings with the Enron Corporation (news/quote), the energy trading giant whose collapse led to the largest Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing in history.

Mr. Cheney met with Kenneth L. Lay, who resigned this week as Enron's chairman, while he was devising energy policy last spring and Enron executives met with Mr. Cheney's staff four times. Enron and its executives also contributed millions of dollars to the Republican Party to support the Bush-Cheney ticket in 2000.

The accounting office has begun interviewing law firms to represent the agency in a lawsuit against the administration.

"We've never had any situation where we were absolutely stonewalled by a task force of this type," Mr. Walker said. "The law and past precedent says the Congress has a right to this information and can use the G.A.O. to conduct a nonpartisan review."

Polls show that voters think the Bush administration is not telling all it knows about Enron. Some Republican strategists worry that Mr. Cheney's unyielding stance on keeping secret the names of the executives with whom he met is contributing to public perceptions on the issue.

But there was no sign today that the vice president is about to give in on the issue. David S. Addington, a counselor to Mr. Cheney, said in an interview that the administration had no intention of providing the agency a list of those executives who met with task force officials.

"G.A.O. must respect the confidentiality needed for an effective presidency," Mr. Addington said, reiterating the administration's position. "G.A.O. must also follow the statutes that limit its power. These are important principles that the courts will enforce."

Mary Matalin, another counselor to Mr. Cheney, said he and President Bush felt strongly that the identities of those who met with the task force should be withheld "on principle" to protect their privacy.

She said the White House believed that the release of the names would have a "chilling effect" on the ability of future task forces to persuade people to cooperate.

Almost from the first day of the Bush administration, many Democrats and environmentalists have been suspicious of the motives of Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney because of their backgrounds in the oil industry.

Mr. Cheney's energy task force heard advice from a wide array of groups and corporate executives last spring. Some, like labor unions and environmental groups, chose to publicize their involvement. Most executives of energy and oil and gas companies did not.

In a meeting previously disclosed by Enron officials, Mr. Cheney met for 30 minutes on April 17 to discuss energy policy with Enron executives, including Mr. Lay.

In San Francisco today, the Sierra Club filed a lawsuit to compel the administration to release the identities of people the energy task force consulted last year.

"It's extremely unfortunate that it takes a lawsuit to learn out how much influence polluting companies had over a policy affecting all Americans," said Carl Pope, the executive director of the Sierra Club. "If the White House had conducted their meetings in the light of day, we wouldn't need this lawsuit. The American people were shut out of this process while energy companies and oil industry were given the red- carpet treatment."

The group is the third to seek the information; lawsuits have been filed by Judicial Watch and the Natural Resources Defense Council.

Representative Henry A. Waxman, the California Democrat who has sought the information since last summer, said today that he believed the administration was trying to use the case as a precedent to operate in secrecy.

"I can't recall a situation when the executive branch has been so unwilling to give out information in a routine request like the one the G.A.O. put to them," Mr. Waxman said.

Democrats say that it is hypocritical for Republicans to refuse to release the identities of the people who advised the energy task force. During President Bill Clinton's first term, Republicans complained when the White House initially refused to divulge the identities of the participants in meetings Hillary Rodham Clinton, then the first lady, held on national health care policy. At the urging of Congressional Republicans, the accounting office requested a list of participants, and the Clinton administration complied.

Mr. Waxman said the Bush administration is trying to carve out a legal precedent. "I think the administration is trying to use this issue as a way to establish a new precedent that they can operate in secrecy and not be accountable to the public or the Congress," Mr. Waxman said. "I think in light of the Enron situation, there's an even greater reason for the administration to want to come clean and talk about Enron, among other special interests, that influenced the decisions of the energy task force."

In an interview last year, Mr. Cheney said his task force would "make decisions based on what we think makes sound public policy," not on what "Enron thinks."

In May, the task force infuriated environmentalists by proposing to open part of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska to energy exploration.

The task force's recommendations on electricity deregulation resembled much of what Enron executives said they had advocated in their meeting with Mr. Cheney.

After reports that contributors to the Bush-Cheney campaign had been given access to the energy task force, Mr. Waxman and Representative John D. Dingell, Democrat of Michigan, asked the accounting office to obtain a complete list of everyone that the task force had heard from. They also sought the subjects that were discussed.

But in early August, Mr. Cheney refused to provide such information. The matter was postponed after Sept. 11. Then, after the collapse of Enron, lawmakers again pushed for the information.

Earlier this week, a group of several Democratic senators also urged the White House to turn over the information.

Some leading Republicans lawmakers said that they believed the administration would eventually supply the information.

Mr. Waxman, in a letter to Mr. Cheney today, asked for additional information from the task force deliberations about an Enron power plant project in India.

The final report of the task force recommended that the administration work with India to "maximize its domestic oil and gas production." It did not specifically mention the $2.9 billion Enron project.

But Mr. Waxman said the recommendation on India "benefited Enron by formally enlisting two cabinet secretaries in Enron's conflict with the Indian government."

"The energy plan does not discuss this recommendation or explain why maximizing oil and gas production in India should be a U.S. national energy priority," Mr. Waxman wrote.






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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: ElPrimo]
    #533712 - 01/28/02 07:49 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

There are no existing laws that could've prevented the Enron collapse. Neither the republicans nor the democrats were at fault.

I'de like to see how Enron and the other big oil companies influenced the energy plan too. I'de bet the oil copanies wrote it and handed it to Bush for him to endorse. But what else is new. All politicians are beholden to special interest groups. I agree capmaign finance reform is a good idea.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineSVT
Stranger
Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 5
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #535089 - 01/29/02 05:30 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I completely agree Innvertigo. I have to admit though, I want to know what it is they are hiding. I can pretty much guess that Enron had a huge influence on that energy policy. The fact that they are fighting tooth and nail not to release the information about their meetings, makes me just more curious as to what they are hiding. It may be that they don't want the public to know that Enron basically did hand Cheney the energy policy as you stated. Fighting the release of the information just makes them look like they have something to hide.


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: SVT]
    #535190 - 01/29/02 07:49 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I was watching on t.v. today, when a commentator said that enron contributions to the republican campaign had nothing to do with influencing the energy plan, and there was nothing out of the ordinary in them. Also that campaign finance reform is not a big issue, expecially soft money, they also quoted ronald reagan, and how he was known to say that campaign contributions are not to endorse their own plans, but rather to endorce the president of their choice. I thought that was interesting.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: nugsarenice]
    #535615 - 01/30/02 05:13 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Here's a 'toon I found that is on topic. It demonstrates that the Enron mud being slung at republicans by democrats is bouncing off and sticking to the dems.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisibleisis
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Registered: 05/16/01
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Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #535692 - 01/30/02 09:55 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Rail gun, Don't you want to know who our Vice president met with to form that energy policy.And how much effect the energy giants had on it. I do. Not as a Republican or democrat but as a cilizen of this country. I also read something interesting. Did you guys know that when Bush refused to step in and help California out during the energy crisis they had,the big winner was Enron.While Bush refused to put price caps on energy Enron was the one making out. I found that interesting. I'm not saying that he should or should not have capped the prices.It is just interesting that Enron was the big beneficiary. Obviously they didn't benefit enough or they would not have gone bankrupt.I just want to know what they are hiding . I will tell you one thing, if they have nothing to hide, then they are making a big Public relations mistake. By not releasing the list, they are making it look as if they have something to hide. That never sits well with the American public.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: isis]
    #535696 - 01/30/02 10:08 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

****Did you guys know that when Bush refused to step in and help California out during the energy crisis they had,the big winner was Enron.While Bush refused to put price caps on energy Enron was the one making out****

That's all the evidence i need..i'm convinced :wink:

****I found that interesting.****

I find it desperate

****I'm not saying that he should or should not have capped the prices.It is just interesting that Enron was the big beneficiary. ****

Then what are you saying?

****Obviously they didn't benefit enough or they would not have gone bankrupt.I just want to know what they are hiding . ****

you need to prove they are guilty first

****I will tell you one thing, if they have nothing to hide, then they are making a big Public relations mistake. ****

They are making a marketing mistake right now and the ever famous "if they have nothing to hide...." argument is against everything that the libbies stand for.

****That never sits well with the American public. ****

Well the libbies are getting smaked back because the american people can see right through there accusations.  Too bad the libbies did favors for Enron that can be proven and the conservatives didn't help them out when they needed it...if it's not too much of a burden you might want to look it up.  I think the what people should be looking at is the Scum Bag CEO of Enron who lied to his own people who are average americans...


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: SVT]
    #535697 - 01/30/02 10:10 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

BTW i'm innvertigo..not Rail_Gun


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: isis]
    #535705 - 01/30/02 10:27 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Isis, my dear friend,

I think I already know how the energy companies influinced the energy policy, and so do you. The energy/oil companies wrote it and Bush rubber stamped it. Simple. Bush is a puppet for big oil. Anyone can pick up a copy of "World Oil (an industry publication about the oil markets)" and know that's true.

But that information is privilaged and we don't have any right to it. Sure I'de like to see it. But I think I already know it's contents. Or maybe I'm just cynical, and Cheney really met with green tree huggers to form his energy policy (Ha).

Take care


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisibleisis
addict
Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 484
Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #536116 - 01/30/02 06:18 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Is it privileged?There's no true precedent on the matter.The White House says it is priviledged, but that is yet to be determined. I guess we are about to find out when it goes to the courts. The truth is legal scholars are split between is it priviledged or not.I do recall when Hillary tried to hide who met with her during te secret meetings for health care reform.The Republicans didn't seem to think anything was priviledged then. Funny, how the tides turn. You are right though Rail Gun,we all now how much those big businesses affect our policies. When, Californian was in trouble Bush refused to meet with peope that wanted his ears. However, his administration was meeting behind closed doors with the oil executives.I agree that anything that affects national security should be priviledged. We don't need to know. However, when it affects public policy, I feel it is a total differet story. I think the public has a right to know how public policy comes to be.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: isis]
    #536274 - 01/30/02 09:05 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

There is precident for executive decision making being privilaged. The thing with Hillary Clinton and her socialized medicine task force not being privilaged was because she was not a political office holder in any way, she was just a regular civilian. Dick Cheney is a political office holder working under the executive branch and as such his meetings are privilaged unless there is a criminal investigation in to them. There is no criminal investigation or allegations at this point so the meetings are privilaged. If a criminal investigation arises the privilage may be breached. But I don't see any possible charges arising from this, I mean, it's not illegal to have policy input from campaign contributors. It may be embarassing for the Bush administration to have their energy policy publicaly revealed as being written by big oil, but that would be embarassing, not illegal.

Basically if it's criminal we should know, but if it's policy making it's confidential. If it goes to court the executive branch will prevail over the legislative in this matter.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Edited by Ellis Dee (01/30/02 09:09 PM)


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InvisibleMokshaMan
enthusiast
Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 280
Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: isis]
    #536280 - 01/30/02 09:18 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Funny Clinton claimed the same thing about the health care made by Hillary and they didn't release the sources that helped Hillary make her health care reform. I'd say that's a precedent of sorts. Although, I'd guess that since Cheney is an actual public official he has more right to priviledged information than Hillary did. Of course... maybe I was wrong about this... I didn't remember hearing about the names being released, but oh well...

Here are two fun articles on Enron: Enron and the Clintonites and Pumping Enron.


--------------------
Men can only be happy when they do not assume that the object of life is happiness.
-- George Owell


Edited by MokshaMan (01/30/02 09:31 PM)


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OfflineElPrimo
journeyman
Registered: 09/29/01
Posts: 92
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: MokshaMan]
    #554792 - 02/17/02 11:14 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Todays paper revealed that Ken Lay and GW Bush exchanged over 2 dozens letters, etc when he was Guv of Texas. Seems they even swapped X-mas cards & gifts. One specifically thanked GW for getting a bunch of de-regulation thru the State. Another from Bush stated that he would do exactly what Enron wanted. As far as the Cheney meetings go, the GAO only wants the names and dates of the meetings. They haven't asked for any notes of even topics discussed. He's involved in a cover up and it will start stinking more and more every day.... maybe they can start another war and take folks minds off of it.

Go ahead and post your crap about the blame hitting Dems the same as GOPers. Ain't gonna happen that way. Kind of like you GOPers pushing Powell and Thomas to prove you don't discrininate against Blacks. Most people aren't fooled by that BS.

BTW, I see where Powell son is head of the FCC. A totally unqualified boob. Kind of like Scalia and Thurmond and their kids... Just like with those republican wives, gotta Keep the money in the family., you know .


Edited by ElPrimo (02/17/02 11:19 PM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Enron and Republican wives... [Re: ElPrimo]
    #554813 - 02/17/02 11:42 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

eh?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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