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 dattaswami
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 God-Subjective & Objective view points 
#5910092 - 07/28/06 09:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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God-Subjective & Objective view points
This entire Universe is objective because the Creator is the subject and the Creation is the object. Any item in the Creation is also object. The human body is the most convenient object. Through such human body only the Lord should be meditated upon and should be served. The subjective God (Creator) is beyond words, mind, intelligence, logic and imagination as said in Veda. Gita says that if one approaches the subjective God directly, he will end in misery (Avyakthahi Gatih Duhkham…). This verse in Gita means that the souls having human bodies cannot worship the subjective God directly because such worship leads only to misery. You cannot even imagine the subjective God. When the approach is subjective, the mind is destroyed as said in Gita in the above verse. Only the objective approach will give happiness because there is no difficulty in capturing the God through an object. Since you are an object, you can capture the boundaries of another object through your mind. Any object is within the four-dimensional space-time model. The subjective God is beyond the dimensions of space and time. When you try to capture the subjective God, the mind is unable to catch Him and undergoes lot of difficulties leading into strain that destroys the mind. But when you experience God through a human being you will not have any strain in capturing God who is identified with the object. When the subjective God is not at all experienced, how His characteristic sign, which is Bliss, can be experienced? You are not seeing the Sun directly and how can you enjoy the heat or light? Even if the Sun is not seen directly if an illuminated lens by Sun is seen, you are enjoying the light and heat atleast in small quantities in reality. When the Sun is completely hidden by the clouds, neither Sun nor his heat nor his light is experienced. Bliss is defined as the continuous happiness, which is infinitely intensive. You may mistake sometimes the temporary happiness also as Bliss. When you have not tasted the infinitely intensive happiness, you may misunderstand even a small shadow of the bliss (happiness) as bliss itself. Moreover, the bliss of yourself is not the highest goal. You must please the Lord and pleasing the Lord must be highest goal. Therefore, your experience of the bliss need not be necessarily the pleasure of the God. The Bliss can be obtained from materialistic things like drink etc. Only the divine knowledge followed by the divine love and bliss can give you the identity of the Lord. But once you recognized the Lord by the knowledge, love and bliss, your aim should be the service of the Lord through which the Lord must be pleased. In service you may not have the bliss or sometimes-you may have to face even lot of unhappiness. Jesus told that unless one detaches even from his life for His sake, he couldn’t be His dearest disciple. But you should feel all that unhappiness as your happiness if your unhappiness in terms of service pleases the Lord. You must have patient analysis and power of discrimination in the search of the truth. Your aim should not be the attainment of bliss but making the Lord blissful through your service and sacrifice. If this ultimate goal is realized, the soul gets the top most place in the heart of the Lord.
You have entered the heart of the Lord deeply through your proven love towards the Lord in the very first step itself. The Lord wants sincerely to hold on you in the path of the truth. The Lord does not want to use any super power in this matter because the path of the knowledge and devotion should be spontaneous, natural and real. The final result of the effort of Swami thus depends only in the power of your discrimination and on your patience to analyze in search of the truth. You will have firm faith only when the divine knowledge helps you as a fertilizer to germinate the devotion and also acts as a pesticide to remove worm like attractions and illusions of Saturn, who always tries to take away the sheep from the Lord like a wolf or a fox.
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 9 years, 15 days
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Re: God-Subjective & Objective view points [Re: dattaswami]
#5916304 - 07/30/06 08:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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how can creator be separate from creation.
do we not simply look to ourselves (creation) to find creator?
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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Fractalated
There's no onehome up there...
Registered: 07/22/06
Posts: 640
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: God-Subjective & Objective view points [Re: dattaswami]
#5916356 - 07/30/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm really trying to just ignore you, but I can't help but ask you: Do you even realize that you're just accepting everything on blind faith? "The Gita says this" "Veda says that", maybe so, but how do you know that those texts are true? How do you know that they've been translated properly?
Question authority, in fact, question everything!
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"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 9 years, 15 days
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Re: God-Subjective & Objective view points [Re: Fractalated]
#5918028 - 07/31/06 09:11 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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questioning evertyhing is only good for so much.
eventually you start to realize that questoining is pointless, as there are no readily obtainable answers.
this has led to a dramatic role reversal on many of my rebellious "question authority" attitudes.
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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Fractalated
There's no onehome up there...
Registered: 07/22/06
Posts: 640
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: God-Subjective & Objective view points [Re: leery11]
#5918092 - 07/31/06 09:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Au contraire, my friend. Questioning everything leads people to try to find things out for themselves. Maybe there are no answers to certain questions. Maybe there are. But only by questioning will you be able to find that out.
Questioning authority is an extremely important thing to do, otherwise authority remains by-and-large unchecked. What gives our leaders the right to kill others? What gives them the right to invade other countries in the name of democracy? Is it right to outlaw certain kinds of marriages? If you don't question authority, then it can very easily become tyrannical. Questioning authority may be rebellious, but above that, it is, quite frankly, rational and reasonable.
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"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 9 years, 15 days
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Re: God-Subjective & Objective view points [Re: Fractalated]
#5918160 - 07/31/06 10:30 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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yes and no.
authority questioners can be as deluded as authority followers.
realism is the way to go. is banning gay marriage right? no. is the war on drugs right? no. Is illegal spying right? No. Is Bush Hitler? No.
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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capliberty
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Registered: 04/23/06
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Re: God-Subjective & Objective view points [Re: leery11]
#5918224 - 07/31/06 11:10 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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God is the subjective and the objective, god is beyond the duality human conceptualizing, to me god has to be no less than the infinite of all things of this universe, meaning he/she, it is everything. Concepts, objects, visions, dreams, the universe itself, energy, imagination, whatever attribute you wanna link towards god, will be a true attribute,
but having said that, the thing that might not be true is the limited vision or picture painted to conceptualize the image of god, to me god would be contained in duality of both poller opposites, but are those poller opposites correlations suppose to tell me that even these laws aren't absolutes, one thing is that somethings may not have a true opposite, or whats seems to be a clear cut opposite isn't actually a valid opposing reflection, so duality on the matter of subjective and the objective is totally relative, due in impart, what does the subjective mean, imaginary, not concrete and definitive, maybe thats just our perception, there are distortions within perception because it is a trained eye or the lack there of
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Fractalated
There's no onehome up there...
Registered: 07/22/06
Posts: 640
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: God-Subjective & Objective view points [Re: leery11]
#5918257 - 07/31/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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authority questioners can be as deluded as authority followers.
This is true, but the act of questioning authority does not make one deluded, in fact IME it tends to make one more lucid. However there are those who are deluded and question authority.
realism is the way to go
It's an extreme, and as such I don't think it's all that great.
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"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: God-Subjective & Objective view points [Re: dattaswami]
#5918304 - 07/31/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Lol ok what you wrote here seems to me like an instruction manual that can be easily be named "ten steps in knowing God" if you know what I mean. I don't think that you can give instructions on how to come close to Him without being hurt. Everbodt needs to find God on it's own, and by he's or her's meanings.
Your statement that trying to come close to God from a subjective point of view can hurt you has no real points and prooves, maybe juse the one of a person's lack of abilyty to understand and then get hurt, I don't think God personally lol will try and hurt you if you do that cause then we're not talking about God. Your statement is also rather matherial, and I think uor aim is a spiritual one.... the one as you refer to be subjective and hurful.
Also your concepiton on serving God looks like a relationship master-slave, we're not Gos's slaves, whatever some religions migh try and make us believe so the church being the "label" of God can manipulate us. Gos means freedom, love, spirituality, and that's what we should aim for.
"But once you recognized the Lord by the knowledge, love and bliss, your aim should be the service of the Lord through which the Lord must be pleased
And how do you think God can be serviced and pleased????? It's ovious that everything you wroute don't represent your beliefs, they're borrowed beliefs, more like doctrines.
I agree that God is in everything and everyhing is Gid, but the conclusins you drwan from that are totally limited.
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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