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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Self-Indulgence
    #5908706 -

Can one make a distinction between self-interest and self-indulgence (selfishness), or would such a distinction be totally arbitrary?

I think of it as a continuum. At one extreme is asceticism: totally denying yourself of everything. A form of self-torture, really. At the other extreme is total selfish self-indulgence: caring only about yourself and acting only to please yourself in all situations.

The middle of this continuum is where I think one should try to remain. I call this middle point self-interest. You don't torture yourself with austerities, and you don't indulge yourself with all sorts of unnecessary and superfluous power, money, and objects.

Going to either extreme causes quite a bit of suffering. Ascetics suffer because they deny themselves what is natural for life. Selfish people suffer when they don't get what they want, or lose what they do have. They become attached to gain and averse to loss.

I think the Middle Way is the best way to live. What do you think?


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"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."

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Re: Self-Indulgence [Re: Fractalated]
    #5908723 -

but even at the middle point you still have degress of both.


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channel your inner Larry David

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Re: Self-Indulgence [Re: Fractalated]
    #5908769 -

I think the difference between self interest and self indulgence is at least in part one of perception and who is doing the perceiving. Also, it's all about the presentation and how it comes across to the audience.

The problem with self indulgence is that unless you bring other people to the party you will tend to end up alone.

Ascetics suffer to a degree at least because they tend to end up alone.

Solitary confinement was/is considered to be one of the most serious forms of punishment.

The middle ground is where most people meet, being afraid of being alone so willing to compromise their own self interest in the name of society.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Self-Indulgence [Re: demiu5]
    #5909287 -

I think if someone was able to live fully in the middle point, and was willing to live a simple and enjoyable life, they would be able to get just what they need, without any excess in either direction.


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"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."

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Re: Self-Indulgence [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5909294 -

So even acting non-selfishly by cooperating and helping others is a form of self-indulgence so that the person is happy and not alone?


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"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."

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Re: Self-Indulgence [Re: Fractalated]
    #5909311 -

Self interest is good. Indulging is never.

Once you understand that you can proceed.



At least that's how I understand it. Self interest must be enlightened though. You need to know what is really in your best interest. Indulging is just wasting energy. There is never gain. It's petty and serving of the cultural self image. It's the opposite of freedom.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Self-Indulgence [Re: Icelander]
    #5909326 -

Nice to see you back man :smile:


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"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."

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Re: Self-Indulgence [Re: Fractalated]
    #5909515 -

thank you. :heart: :mushroom2:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Self-Indulgence [Re: Fractalated]
    #5910129 -

Quote:
Poster: Fractalated
Subject: Re: Self-Indulgence

So even acting non-selfishly by cooperating and helping others is a form of self-indulgence so that the person is happy and not alone?



To get you gotta give and to give you gotta get. Absolutely, many of the people who need people types are the "eager to please" who have a huge whole in their lives without that giving. You know the type, the emotionally needy who bend over backwards to do anything for you yet in the end it's like freaking fatal attraction. Time for me to leave, where others might cling too afraid to be alone.

Everybody does everything to satisfy some need in them or at least in accordance with their current comfort zone or else they wouldn't be doing it. Period.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Self-Indulgence [Re: Icelander]
    #5910165 -

Quote:
Poster: Icelander
Subject: Re: Self-Indulgence

Self interest is good. Indulging is never.

Once you understand that you can proceed.



At least that's how I understand it. Self interest must be enlightened though. You need to know what is really in your best interest. Indulging is just wasting energy. There is never gain. It's petty and serving of the cultural self image. It's the opposite of freedom.



indulgence

noun

A kindly act: favor, good turn, grace, kindness, service. Archaic benefit. See help/harm/harmless.
Forbearing or lenient treatment: charitableness, charity, forbearance, lenience, leniency, lenity, tolerance, toleration.

So kindly acts and charity are just wasting energy?

I actually found this definition which doesn't seem consistent with other definitions and then there is that whole Catholic indulgence thing. Words can mean many different things.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

Edited by LunarEclipse (07/28/06 09:37 PM)

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Re: Self-Indulgence [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5910183 -

in·dul·gence

n.

The act or an instance of indulging; gratification

In other words, self-gratification. Catering to your whims and desires, no matter how natural or unnatural, even at the expense of others.


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"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."

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Re: Self-Indulgence [Re: Fractalated]
    #5910240 -

The rise and fall of civilizations, The driving force sublime between our legs.

Take the road less traveled, walk with control, walk with care, how much better the will road become, though, the road was always that way, we merely could not see, we could not move forward, past the stones of disgrace, those based on mileading fundementals and accursed morality.

Why is it that when Im hungry I have more energy?


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---------o----o----o-------o------------------------o--o-o-
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Requim for a Dream - Paul Oakenfold
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"The mis/abuse of any form of power, is the worst form of ignorance"
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WIZOLZ - Lover with a Killer's Smile

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Re: Self-Indulgence [Re: Fractalated]
    #5911948 -

in·dul·gence (ĭn-dŭl'jəns)
n.

The act or an instance of indulging; gratification: indulgence of every whim.
The state of being indulgent.

The act of indulging in something: indulgence in irresponsible behavior.
Something indulged in: Sports cars are an expensive indulgence.
Liberal or lenient treatment; tolerance: treated their grandchildren with fond indulgence.
Self-indulgence: a life of wealth and indulgence.

Something granted as a favor or privilege.
Permission to extend the time of payment or performance.
Patient attention: I beg your indulgence for just a few minutes.
Roman Catholic Church. The remission of temporal punishment still due for a sin that has been sacramentally absolved.
tr.v. Roman Catholic Church., -genced, -genc·ing, -genc·es.
To attach

I really don't see where you get "natural or unnatural" or "even at the expense of others" out of those definitions.

To me, it sounds more like someone is spoiling themselves or others such as indulging one's grandkids or asking for a favor "may I beg your indulgence"

Anyway, those that most have a problem with "indulgence" are probably either a) jealous of or not in favor of someone else's ability to indulge or choice of indulgence or b) the parents who have to take the spoiled kids home from grampies who overindulged them or c) the one being begged for indulgence who's not quite ready to offer their indulgence.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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