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OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
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Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 9,581
Loc: attending Snake Church
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #25715475 - 01/01/19 08:41 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Interesting to see a thread this old revived.

I prefer jerking off to philosophy which is probably why I studied sociology for 10 years and took one semester of philosophy.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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OfflineIntentional
Sentient Something
I'm a teapot

Registered: 08/26/18
Posts: 172
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgent minds? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #25715602 - 01/01/19 09:41 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

No. People who take mushrooms and come to the realisation that they are not their ego at times tend to forget that they are still human. It's easy to do, but this truth means that what you are aware of in your trip is somewhat stuck in that experience itself. To become human again is to involuntary forget part of that truth.

To say that philosophy is inherently futile is to say the same about life itself.
Science and philosophy are one. The true nature of reality is entirely holistic.


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Man’s ability to travel between the physical and metaphysical makes him both arbiter and prisoner to creation.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 30,391
Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #25717332 - 01/01/19 10:17 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

you're not exactly kidding.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,577
Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: sudly]
    #25718564 - 01/02/19 01:54 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
What's the difference between truth and 'ultimate truth'?

Or just what do you mean by ultimate truth?




you could also use a search engine, and find a 'truth' about the common usage of these common terms quicker --- then again its not so quick, as the explanations tend to be long, so no one's going to post a comprehensive explanation here.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=What%27s+the+difference+between+truth+and+%27ultimate+truth%27%3F&t=h_&ia=web

Then again sometimes (or perhaps often) 'truth' may be a matter of perspective:
The lion's truth maybe different than the zebra's truth.
But if both exist only in your dream,
once the unconscious creation, becomes conscious; then whose truth is it?
And if 'you' change, the same dream characters,  might mean something different
at another time.
etc.


--------------------



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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 6,565
Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: laughingdog]
    #25722113 - 01/04/19 04:10 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

It's a Buddhist philosophy apparently.

The conceptual and the ultimate.. planes of existence like heaven and hell and conceptual ways of understanding reality.

The first truth is conceptual in line of entities of self and organs and the body, people, places and things.

The ultimate reality, or ultimate truth is said to be the building blocks of reality, the second truth, things as they really are from an experiential level, the 5 senses and so on including physical and mental parts of every experience.

Biology talks about systems, here Buddhists call them concepts.

Have fun you space cadets.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: sudly]
    #25722777 - 01/04/19 01:56 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Yes the terms are Buddhist.
the main point is about self.
the second point is about the world.
from these 2 points others follow:

1) conventionally we take the 'sense of self' we all experience as our basic truth
2) conventionally we take the world to be full of separate objects
thus it follows because we assume we have a stable identity we suffer because
the ultimate truth is
1) we don't actually have "a self" * ( Thus we are out of touch with reality) **
and
2) the ultimate truth about objects is they are all interrelated
.....A) and only exist as long as their components have some sort of temporary connection (hence they are impermanent)***
.....B) and one way they are all interrelated is by infinite "chains" of causation"


* "According to this doctrine, there is no "self" in the sense of a permanent, integral, autonomous being within an individual existence. What we think of as our self, the "me" that inhabits our body, is just an ephemeral experience."
https://www.thoughtco.com/anatman-anatta-449669
note this does not deny the feeling of self, or that it is necessary in the social world,
or deny that this self suffers;
in fact the whole point of the Buddhist teaching is to end suffering, not create either beliefs or theories.

** this is also stated by Shinzen Young as: 
pain x resistance = suffering
so here resistance equates to our self and its disliking of certain experiences
So a small pain times great dislike = much suffering
but
a great pain with no resistance = no suffering
(hence a buddhist saying: "No self, No problem")

***modern science confirms
1) matter is composed of smaller components as far as we can measure
2) matter is equivalent to energy


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 6,565
Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: laughingdog]
    #25723820 - 01/04/19 10:32 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I don't assume we have a stable self, but instead that the self is an ever changing and developing entity like a web that flows.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 30,391
Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: sudly]
    #25724853 - 01/05/19 12:10 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

the moment we loose touch with our senses, we lose our selves in the soggy domain of concepts.
connecting with the senses, enables and empowers the self which is no-self.


[this self is no-self in the sense that the self is not what you thought it was, but what is happening in the moment - which you may become aware of or not]


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OfflineOne Up
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Registered: 09/12/18
Posts: 18
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: redgreenvines]
    #25729050 - 01/07/19 03:11 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Lo! I am come to autumn,
When all the leaves are gold;
Grey hairs and golden leaves cry out
The year and I are old.

In youth I sought the prince of men,
Captain in cosmic wars,
Our Titan, even the weeds would show
Defiant, to the stars.

But now a great thing in the street
Seems any human nod,
Where shift in strange democracy
The million masks of God.

In youth I sought the golden flower
Hidden in wood or wold,
But I am come to autumn,
When all the leaves are gold.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 9 months, 30 days
Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: One Up]
    #25730680 - 01/08/19 02:58 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Lovely! Whose words are these? I usually am too prosaic, too Apollonian (despite my secret worship of Dionysus) to grok poetry, much as I have tried. But now, halfway through my 65th year of life, these words speak to me.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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