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 Alan Stone
Corpus
Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
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 Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgent mi  [Re: Dzogchen]
#2360301 - 02/20/04 04:18 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
A. Just because a question has not been answerd yet, does not mean that no answer exists
Philosophy to me is more about the questions and looking into different perspectives than your own than about the answers per se.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
- Aristotle
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
 
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgent mi [Re: Zen Peddler]
#2360342 - 02/20/04 04:30 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Philosophy was born after the nomad human tribes started settling. They had much more time to practice and make paintings, music or story telling. So art is also a result of free time just as philosophy is. It's a result of evolution but it also promotes evolution, for instance, without philosophy many scientific achievements wouldn't exist at all because before finding anything, man must have the need to find anything but why does man need to know ?
MAIA
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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 
Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire
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Alan Stone
Corpus
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgent mi [Re: MAIA]
#2360635 - 02/20/04 06:14 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'd say philosophy came into existance with the rising of the Homo sapiens sapiens (and possibly Homo Neanderthalensis species before that). These early humans realised they were mortal, and buried their dead. This could be a practical issue (keeping away predators and scavengers by removing the scent of the corpse from the direct environment of the group), but funeral pyres could accomplish the same thing. For them to bury their dead would imply they had some kind of rationalisation of death, i.e. sending the person on a voyage (thus burying them with tools, gifts, food). Since philosophy is about the great questions of life, and the end of life raises such questions, I'd argue philosophy started there.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
- Aristotle
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 WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,506
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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 Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgent minds? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#2361022 - 02/20/04 08:05 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's no more an exercise in futility than, say, playing basketball, or jerking off.
Edited by CyberChump (02/21/04 11:07 AM)
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgent mi [Re: Dzogchen]
#2362118 - 02/21/04 12:22 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Lol - ill be honest now I just wanted to stir the pot - to philophize about philosophy. Futility itself could be argued to be fundamental itself to the human condition...
I certainly didnt 'flame' anyone - i said nothing that was a personal attack - only pointing out possible flaws in some arguments. And i was surprised how poorly some arguments were established.
I myself spen many hours contemplating the human condition - i feel no shame about it and no need to justify it - but in the context of it being a luxury that people from less fortunate situations do not have access to ,i think there is a valid point. Just because we have the time to contemplate doesnt mean our lives are any more rewarding, significant or enlightening than a poor beggar in a Bengalli street.
I dont suggest that i have some dramatic insight into the human condition that other's do not - there are some people who do and it obvious that its really just their way of justifying their own lifestyles and to prop up their low feelings of self-worth...
DZOGCHEN - there is more to philosophy than a mere pondering of death - but mortality and the human condition is often the crux of these thoughts.
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Edited by Zen Peddler (02/21/04 12:28 AM)
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nemesis
Stranger
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: Zen Peddler]
#2362776 - 02/21/04 06:04 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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"Most of the succesful are the poor."
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May Peace and fellicity smile on those who seek it.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: nemesis]
#2373509 - 02/23/04 08:20 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Philosophy is a great glorious wank. Whe we evolve beyond wanking we will evolve beyond philosophizing.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
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 Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: zappaisgod]
#2374274 - 02/24/04 12:32 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Um... nevermind... it's not worth my time...
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
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Loc: Pandurn
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: Sclorch]
#2374902 - 02/24/04 06:09 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sclorch said:
Um... nevermind... it's not worth my time...
All I can say is that if philosophy is a "wank", then life is as well. Pretty logical assumption, I feel... and damn it all if I wouldn't be able to construct a logical assumption if it wasn't for philosophy in the first place. 
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: fireworks_god]
#2376949 - 02/25/04 06:37 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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On a good day life is a wank. On a bad day it's something else. That pretty much suns up my attitude. Of course some wanks are more elaborate than others.....
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doomstershroomster
Sir Spartacus
Registered: 12/27/18
Posts: 9
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 Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgent minds? [Re: Anonymous]
#25710484 - 12/29/18 07:25 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Majah flame there Mr. Anonymous.
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Spartacus is my dad and Spartacus is my mom?
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,815
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgent minds? [Re: doomstershroomster]
#25710670 - 12/29/18 10:13 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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The original post amusingly is a victim of what good philosophy should teach one not to do: namely: overgeneralize
Sure some philosophy is BS ... but ...
some philosophies actually resulted in changing peoples' lives:
stoicism from ancient Greece
If you read the biography of Wittgenstein, he was clearly trying to achieve an integration between ideas and actions.
and one last example, ( I'm sure many can think of others)
Chinese philosophy, acupuncture, and Tai Chi are all integrated
it is also pervasive in the iChing, and writings of Lao Tzu
and of course there are negative examples as well,
especially as bad philosophy merges with belief systems;
as opposed to dissecting them, which is what good philosophy might do.
One branch of Philosophy is symbolic logic which requires rather more intelligence than the 'average bear' has, thus negating the notion you have that your cursory opinion deserves status as a fact.
Edited by laughingdog (12/29/18 10:15 PM)
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RJ Tubs 202
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Loc: USA 
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgent minds? [Re: laughingdog]
#25710794 - 12/30/18 12:01 AM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
some philosophies actually resulted in changing peoples' lives
For me, philosophy is looking inward.
Learning about how I disturb myself.
It's not easy. It's the path of a warrior.
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,815
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgent minds? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#25711453 - 12/30/18 11:16 AM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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a web inquiry yields the info, links, and categories, below
....In my opinion all philosophy is based on the ability to think critically, which is not a natural ability of humans any more than reading is.
....Belief, superstition, habit, emotional reactivity, prejudice/bias, xenophobia, conformity, and sensual desire all tend to supersede reason as the default mode for humans.
....Hence the value of the scientific method, philosophy, and critical thinking, would seem to be some of the very important determining factors of the level of civilization that is possible for any given culture.
....Of course the average health & intelligence of a population, sets the first bar; and there are many other factors. But without the ability to transcend the default mode, humans are fated or condemned to the world we see today, where war has been almost constantly occurring somewhere on the planet for thousands of years ( and this is only the most obvious example of the failure of the default mode, which is characterized by the inability to think clearly).
....Of course regardless, once civilization becomes an empire; then history shows that in the case of empires, there is always an eventual decline, as there has never been an effective modality for raising intelligence. And even intelligence does not necessarily lead to either critical thinking or compassion. So when we think in broad terms like this, and employ logic and continue, regardless of whether we like the conclusions, we are perhaps beginning to engage in a sort of philosophical thinking.
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https://duckduckgo.com/?q=branches+of+philosophy&t=h_&ia=web
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Introduction_to_Philosophy/The_Branches_of_Philosophy
https://www.reference.com/world-view/main-branches-philosophy-ead9595786ddb79
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Branches_of_philosophy
This category is intended for the main areas of philosophy studied in modern academia.
Subcategories
This category has the following 11 subcategories, out of 11 total.
A
► Aesthetics (26 C, 121 P)
► Axiology (1 C, 11 P)
C
► Cosmology (4 C, 15 P)
E
► Epistemology (21 C, 168 P)
► Ethics (23 C, 134 P)
L
► Logic (21 C, 154 P)
M
► Metaphilosophy (13 C, 26 P)
► Metaphysics (18 C, 75 P)
P
► Phenomenology (9 C, 52 P)
► Practical philosophy (2 C, 1 P)
T
► Theoretical philosophy (3 C, 1 P)
Edited by laughingdog (12/30/18 11:39 AM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 8,738
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgent minds? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#25713140 - 12/31/18 04:44 AM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zen Peddler said:
And is it an exercise in complete and utter futility? How do we expect to learn and understand the universe in one life time when the culmination of thousands of lifetimes have only resulted in bullshit science, better war and weaponry and men in suits who think their lives matter while they children wish they would hurry up and die so that they can get their inheritence??
The most ancient of religions still practised today - (practised in the same way that it was originally practised - unlike all these wiccan wanks who pretend that their really were fairies and witches running around europe worshipping the goddess - teutonic orders who ruled in europe from around 400AD pushed out celtic beliefs not wiccan) explains the futility in philosophy - you will never work it all out - the more you think about the way of the worlds - the reason for life the further you will get from the answer - which is that is just 'is'. 
(Thread may be old but it's still posing the question)
Philosophy might be the result of idol, bored and self-indulgent minds, though at the same time it tends to result in understandings.
A clear purpose isn't something I think needs to be sought for a whole lifetime, but for what you are doing, what ever it is that just is for you. At least having a clear purpose makes it easier to arrive at something, step by step.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,815
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgent minds? [Re: sudly]
#25713711 - 12/31/18 11:42 AM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Funny the OP posting about the futility of changing the outer world,
when psychedelics are about changing the inner world,
and this is of course a website having to do with psychedelics.
And once the inner world is changed,
the experiencing of the outer world is changed.*
And once one goes outside of western philosophy,
to the Indian philosophies of Yoga & Buddhism,
philosophy is linked to a moral lifestyle,
as a foundation;
before & along with, those practices,
that alter consciousness or the inner world,
which then changes the experiencing of the outer world.
As an example ( from the Indian Nondualist / Advaita Vedanta tradition is this case , I think)
"In my world, nothing ever goes wrong."
Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
https://www.azquotes.com/quote/725952
for more of Nisargadatta's wisdom in bite site quotes see
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nisargadatta+quotes&t=h_&ia=web
* of course from a certain point of view even this is dualistic
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RJ Tubs 202
Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 5,504
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgent minds? [Re: laughingdog]
#25714389 - 12/31/18 05:42 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
"In my world, nothing ever goes wrong."
Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
 I love it.
It's fascinating to consider the mind creates "problems", and bothers itself.
A "problem" is the difference between desire and reality.
. . . He has a health problem.
. . . They have problems in their marriage.
. . . She has a gambling problem.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head
Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,648
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: zappaisgod]
#25714458 - 12/31/18 06:38 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
On a good day life is a wank. On a bad day it's something else. That pretty much suns up my attitude. Of course some wanks are more elaborate than others.....
Classic Zappa. I can't say that isn't good thinking, but I am of the opinion that, while ultimate truth is unknowable to us, I do think we can know certain things, and philosophy and critical thinking are not worthless. There is such a thing as cultivating and enriching oneself, and I feel this may not be just an empty wank. I used to feel very differently, though.
RIP Zappa
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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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sudly
Darwin's stagger
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 8,738
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: DividedQuantum]
#25714499 - 12/31/18 07:13 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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What's the difference between truth and 'ultimate truth'?
Or just what do you mean by ultimate truth?
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head
Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,648
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Re: philosophy the result of idol, bored & self-indulgen [Re: sudly]
#25714531 - 12/31/18 07:39 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Newton's laws are true, or true enough. The final theory from which they reduce could be a form of ultimate truth. For example. (I don't think quantum theory is in any way final). I feel that such a theory is, in all likelihood, beyond us, or rather, our level of evolution.
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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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