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Anonymous
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Re: Enlightenment smacks of elitism or does it [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5801837 - 06/29/06 02:03 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wouldnt of thought there were others out there.... LOve YOUS GUYS man did this dude just not read the whole post or what... cause im sure thats a silly thing to say after everything said in the post.. anyone agree?
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thatiAM
Stranger

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 1,250
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Re: Enlightenment smacks of elitism or does it [Re: ]
#5803087 - 06/29/06 12:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Horseonsandhill said: I wouldnt of thought there were others out there.... LOve YOUS GUYS man did this dude just not read the whole post or what... cause im sure thats a silly thing to say after everything said in the post.. anyone agree?
Yeah, my bad. I didn't read the post. Guilty, as charged
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Anonymous
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Re: Enlightenment smacks of elitism or does it [Re: thatiAM]
#5932134 - 08/04/06 05:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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If we take away the word enlightenment and change it to "being happier" i think people might start to get the point... what does everyone think?
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kaiowas
lest we baguette


Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: Enlightenment smacks of elitism or does it [Re: ]
#5933835 - 08/05/06 06:40 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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a label doesn't matter since everyone takes 'being happier' in as many different ways as the term 'enlightenment'
and as for this...
Naturally, Enlightenment Smacks of elitism. To most people that cannot comprehend it, the concept or realization of enlightenment is almost impossible. And so they go through life missing out on what might of been. If we are what we eat, (and people are eating such crap these days ) wouldn't it be recommendable ... that we eat soul food instead... It seems people are depriving themselves of what even they know is good and this baffles me.. this is truly sad to me... why is there something rather than nothing , this is the concept most people , firstly need to ascertain. To obtain any ultimate happyness or enlightenment....to respect anyone else u must first truely have respect for yourself."
I have no idea what you are talking about. it skips from idea to idea too quickly and does not provide enough 'flow' to it. could you please paraphrase what you are saying so I can make sense of it. Are you referring to food in a symbolic sense only, or do you literally mean 'soul food'? Then you jump to ask 'why is there something rather than nothing?' Then you jump to respecting yourself leaving me lost. It's the internet, a bulletin board no less, and since there is no tone (IE I can't hear how you talk) you need to be able to type well. I'm not trying to belittle you, I'm just making it clear to you what I'm thinking in hopes you do the same because I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say
cheers
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Anonymous
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Re: Enlightenment smacks of elitism or does it [Re: kaiowas]
#6062486 - 09/14/06 08:10 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
kaiowas said: a label doesn't matter since everyone takes 'being happier' in as many different ways as the term 'enlightenment'
and as for this...
Naturally, Enlightenment Smacks of elitism. To most people that cannot comprehend it, the concept or realization of enlightenment is almost impossible. And so they go through life missing out on what might of been. If we are what we eat, (and people are eating such crap these days ) wouldn't it be recommendable ... that we eat soul food instead... It seems people are depriving themselves of what even they know is good and this baffles me.. this is truly sad to me... why is there something rather than nothing , this is the concept most people , firstly need to ascertain. To obtain any ultimate happyness or enlightenment....to respect anyone else u must first truely have respect for yourself."
I have no idea what you are talking about. it skips from idea to idea too quickly and does not provide enough 'flow' to it. could you please paraphrase what you are saying so I can make sense of it. Are you referring to food in a symbolic sense only, or do you literally mean 'soul food'? Then you jump to ask 'why is there something rather than nothing?' Then you jump to respecting yourself leaving me lost. It's the internet, a bulletin board no less, and since there is no tone (IE I can't hear how you talk) you need to be able to type well. I'm not trying to belittle you, I'm just making it clear to you what I'm thinking in hopes you do the same because I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say
cheers
THankyou for being so kind.... sorry to confuse... Ok to put it simply and in the gutter. im confused as to why our kids are eating Mc donalds as a first step to enlightenment (there is no enlightenment) instead of a strong mushroom trip..... in saying soul food i am talking about all natural drugs put here by god..they are less harmful than a bar of chocolate..why do we feed our kids crap produced by money hungry beasts, when there are natural things that will actually help you develop as a person positively too and yet they are kept under a rug!.. i am dissapointed by our lack of understanding of what is good and what is bad (there is no good or bad, there just is) our brains can undergo undenialbly amazing even unspeakable changes we can spark change from what we put into our delicate minds and bodies...
there are alot of fat people in the world, If we all ate soul food im sure that in time the "alot" would become not many, if any....
If we are here, here for eternity, why do we denny ourselves the privilage of what we know is a better way of living "being better humans'. we know we can all be better! with the right combination of soul food attitude and determination its possible for everyone , why is it so hard to make a world shift in how we think, live , eat , breath and interact with each other.changing everything we know literally.... the answer to me is already clear....... Some of us are against thoughts like this .
If we do not respect natural things we cannot be respectful of mankind or ourselves because we are of natural creation.....!is just passing by without really feeling the natural beauty around you a crime? It bloody well should be, but it just isn;t...... hope my elaboration helps you clarify what i was getting at... 
peace
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Telepylus
Babyman


Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 996
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Enlightenment is Elitism [Re: ]
#6063052 - 09/14/06 10:24 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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first of all enlightenment is temporal, like happiness
a person doesn't suddenly become enlightened and then stay that way permanently- it doesn't work like that.
enlightenment is a verb at the pinnacle of enlightenment, the mind rejoins the universal mind in union with God, and during this miracle, the entire world and everything you know becomes an extension of who U/R, and you are accountable for co-creating/destroying all things via all you've come into contact with in your mind in your life.
and this experience is temporary. if it weren't, then God would be walking the world in one flesh, which he appears to be doing, but he's moving in and out of certain people and families-
and just because a person achieves union with God and the Truth, 10 minutes later he's back down in a lower level of consciousness again, and basically totally forgotten how to "be" God. he may keep fragments of concepts, but can never manage to remember everything, and here is what is tricky- as time passes, things change, the Absolute Truth is something morphing and changing, so a year later, the person who experienced union with God is no better off for it at all, because the world itself has an all new set of rules. and this is why it's important to unite with God often- which is why we have prayer and meditation.
so the point is enlightenment is elitism, plain and simple some people do it more than others
enlightenment is a verb, and when you're enlightened you have proof of it because you are witnessing yourself co-create/destroy the world, as an extension of yourself. it takes a very honest, loving person to handle this. and it's like that for a reason. God isn't going to allow men to co-create reality with him, unless they are pure of heart. and the path to enlightenment is that test. the gauntlet we run.
It's quite simple to instruct a person how to achieve union with God, and to transcend time & space, and to govern the world. however, most people simply don't have the balls to do it.
Edited by Telepylus (09/14/06 11:56 PM)
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Enlightenment smacks of elitism or does it [Re: MystikMushroom]
#6063261 - 09/14/06 11:47 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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There's much more then a few here who understand that sort of loneliness when you absolve all duality. One is a lonely number. When you arrive at the "I am the all that is" realization, there is no one else there.
That's when spiritual types start to appear absolutely cuckoo and batty, not to mention out of reach and out of touch. There is little to no fear or any of its derivatives there though. Their not being in fear is a big part of what makes them appear so crazy.
However, for some who have reasonably mastered the basic skills and are applying them through remembrance( addressed ahead) being in the singularity of the One realization is experienced more like being alone, which is very different from feeling lonely. Being alone in that state can be quite a refreshing feeling. Its so peaceful. It can wear thin after a while and thats when you know, its time to drop a bit in vibration.
"We are individuated expressions of the all that is" is a more palatable plateau to be in realization of that has some more flex to it. That's when spiritual types just appear all fuzzy warm and cozy and clueless about how people can be so mean to each other and are touchy sensitive.
"Us and them" is a step broader beyond "us vs them". It's a nice place to be in realization of where, some duality is apparent, you can say, "hmmmm they seem to think and feel very differently from us, but we can find some common ground, some understanding and still get along and co-operate." Thats when spiritual types seem the most "normal and or reasonable, though some separation ego may appear."
Then there is just the dense duality bottom pit realization that says, "they are not like us, therefore, they are a threat to our survival and must be destroyed". This place is where an extreme sense of separation and division is realized and experienced. It is a very lonely place to be, as well as scary because of the threat to survival factor being so predominant.
In the singularity, that threat is rarely experienced because there is only one. If things get distorted there through non utilization of skills, you can become a threat to yourself through self destructive behavior though.
I thinks thats why so many spiritual teachings, start with the basics of self love, self appreciation, self forgiveness, and working at realizing your creative constructive potential. When you have that down, you can shoot up into the Oneness of the all that is and flyyyyyyyyyyyy free man.
Some people find themselves in the singularity realization before having mastered those skills and become very self destructive though.
Not sure how that happens though. Never gave much thought to how one can gets out of sync with their own self at the same time. 
To the post question-
Does true enlightenment smack of elitism?
Why do people have such a problem with that word. Look it up. Some people have acquired things others havn't. Sometimes, the word elite is used to describe them. So what if its true on some level. Somewhere along the way, I suppose it became associated with snobbish types by insecure types, but that silliness should have no bearing on the pure meaning of the word or those who qualify for its label.
Micheal Jordon is in the elite of NBA Ball Players of all time. Who has a problem with that? So what if he even claims to be. He can back it up. Johnny Carson was in the elite of comediennes. Who has a problem with that and why? 
I've heard the word used for discarnates in spirit that have spent eons working on mastering the basics to the point of being able to teach them effectively to others, however, they are always humble and wouldn't call themselves that. They would see themselves as humble servants to the One. If they are good at teaching mastered skills then they qualify for the elite label.
Nothing wrong with that or beings wanting to help out others beings asking for help.
However, when purely in the singularity of the one of all that is, the label elite does not apply. For there to be something elite about it, there would have to be something not having had acquired elite status yet to compare itself too. The all that is is everything, so there can be no opposite or other to compare it with. That's where the humbleness comes from out of that state of being and realization.
To answer the question, "Does enlightenment smack of elitism?"
My answer is, does anyone on a spiritual path really care about labels in a way they find some offensive? Well, if they do, they should go back to the basics and creatively reconstruct themselves with generous doses of self love, appreciation, acceptance, support, forgiveness, understanding and compassion until the feeling of being offended disappears into the mist. Do it until you are back to being able to clearly realize and see that, while being at one again with the One of all that is, the only thing that can offend you is your own self. If you find that funny at that point and have stopped offending your own self you are in the bliss of the One again.
Rock and on and thanks to whoever put up this post. I needed this reminder. You're a gem! 
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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