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Invisibleagar
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Bulk Substrate HEAT (thermal death range)
    #5215427 - 01/24/06 05:13 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)


Ambient room temp where the incubator is.
(ranges from 68 to 72F)


Inside the UNHEATED incubator.
(ranges from 80 to 84F)

Bulk compost and/or h/poo subs generate 10/12 degree's of heat.

Meaning, if you incubate bulk substrates at 82/84F.

They are apt to cook themselves, ferment & hit thermal death ranges. :eek: :mad2:


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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: Bulk Substrate HEAT (thermal death range) [Re: agar]
    #5215535 - 01/24/06 05:40 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Good post...my incubator held great at 83ish...until I loaded it up with cases...and it jumped to 89..so I know the internal heat was higher..

For shit's and grins could you stick a temp gauge (clean) in the case..or maybe an infrared gun that measures temps..


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Offlinetokey666
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Re: Bulk Substrate HEAT (thermal death range) [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5215555 - 01/24/06 05:48 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Good stuff! Thanks again!


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Invisibleagar
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Re: Bulk Substrate HEAT (thermal death range) [Re: tokey666] * 1
    #5215845 - 01/24/06 07:06 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

From Penn State:

Which gives insight to spawn run heat peaks.

The amount of spawn used depends on the crop cycle and cost. The spawning rate can be expressed as a unit or quart per so many square feet of bed surface; 1 unit (~ 1 lb or 1 liter) per 6-8 ft. is considered a standard rate on a commercial farm. The rate is sometimes expressed based on spawn weight versus substrate weight; therefore, 2-3 percent spawning rate is equivalent rate. A low spawning rate is about 1 unit for every 12-15 sq. ft. (1-2% Dry Weight), whereas a high rate about 1 unit for every 4-5 sq. ft (>3% of Compost Dry Weight).

The more spawn used the better, since it is a cheap supplement, increasing overall production; and the more initial growing points will provide a quicker and more efficient use of substrate nutrients. Both of these factors will improve the colonization of substrate, which also helps insure the mushroom will grow quicker than other fungal competitors. Furthermore, as the spawn rate is increased, more heat is generated and the heat surge occurs earlier during spawn growing period.

Spawn Growth
During the colonization of the substrate by the spawn (spawn run) is a good time to evaluate the crop and substrate. Spawn growth and the presence or absence of other molds helps to indicate how the substrate preparation process has been carried out. Problems with substrate formulation or process and Phase II composting or conditioning may first develop during the spawn-growing period. Weed and indicators molds may tell the grower how the composting process went and what nutrient was lacking or in excess. These molds may grow on compounds that have not been used by the microbes during the Phase II will often suggest a problem occurred.

Although the type of spawn growth depends on many factors, often it may indicate the nutritional and moisture level of the substrate. The spawn strain itself will vary in their inherent capacity for rapid or slow growth. This variation is a genetic characteristic; therefore, growers should be familiar with the characteristics of the different strains and the suppliers of spawn are a good source of this information. The other obvious important factor that determines the type of spawn growth is the substrate. Substrate element analysis is important but does not always correlate with growth or yield but should be monitored to determine trends in substrate preparation. The lab analysis should be used as guidelines and establishing trends from crop to crop. There is a direct correlation between substrate ammonia content and subsequent growth and yield of mushrooms. Substrate should have less that 0.05% ammonia, dry weight, at spawning time. By smelling, most growers can detect 0.1% ammonia levels, which will restrict spawn growth. Ammonia content above 0.2% will kill spawn. The substrate pH has little to no correlation to spawn growth or yield. Spawn can tolerate a pH in the range of 6.5 to 8.2 and normally it will decreases from 7.5 to 6.0 during cropping. When the substrate nitrogen content is analyzed at this time, it should be in a range of 2.0 - 2.5% on a dry weight basis. A positive correlation of substrate nitrogen and yield has been shown. The greater the nitrogen content, with no ammonia, the better the yield. Nitrogen content has no correlation with spawn growth, since rapid spawn growth has been observed in both high and low nitrogen composts. However, generally a high nitrogen substrate has a slower spawn growth, but fills out and becomes denser. The lipid (fats/oils) content of the substrate will influence both the rate and quantity of spawn growth. More nutritional substrate will support slower and finer texture spawn growth. It is suspected that the thinner strands of spawn are slowly adsorbing nutrients. In less nutritional substrate, spawn growth is more rapid and white with more rhizomorphs, suggesting the spawn is seeking nutrients.

Ideal substrate moisture at spawning varies according to the type of substrate. With horse manure substrate, moisture of 65-72% is normal. With synthetic composts a moisture range of 65-75% is normal. However, there are exceptions to these ranges where spawn growth and yield are better outside these ranges. Mushroom size and quality is affected directly by dry substrate, where dry substrate will produce smaller, off-color mushrooms.

Ventilation and environmental requirements for substrate are not well understood. It is assumed that little oxygen is required within the substrate. Carbon dioxide levels are kept high within the room or at least under the plastic that is used to cover the substrate after spawning. It is known that there is an increased spawn growth rate with increasing CO2 levels to 10,000 ppm. The desired relative humidity is 95% or more in order to preserve substrate moisture. Relative humidity within the room can be maintained by watering the walls and floors. Some high-pressure misting systems have been developed, but they are expensive to purchase and maintain. Steam can also be used to maintain humidity, however it is a source of heat and would increase energy cost and put more demands on the air conditioning system.

During the spawn-growing period, little outside ventilation is used, unless outside air is used as a supplemental source of cooling. During the warmer months outside air is not used, and the room air is re-circulated through the air conditioning units to be cooled. The higher humidity of the outside air requires more cooling capacity.

Substrate and Spawn Growth Management after Spawning
Substrate may lose about 5 F during spawning. During the summer, substrate may be warmer before spawn and therefore it is important to bring substrate temperature down to optimum temperature within 12-18 hrs after the spawning operation is completed. The mycelium within grain is slightly insulated; and this mycelium can survive in 90 F plus temperatures for a short time. However, with unfinished substrate it is usually better to be cooler than warmer when spawning, insuring the substrate temperature is brought down below the temperature range for mesophilic mold growth (> 85 F). The optimum spawn growth temperature is 75-76 F, however there is some indication that growth is faster at 73-75 F. Growers normally run substrate bed temperatures in the high 70's but most try not to exceed 80 F. At that temperature or higher the spawn growth becomes restricted and permanent damage to fruiting mechanism may occur. Spawn is killed at about 104 F.

Spawn growing temperatures should be maintained at a steady level. It is important to anticipate heat surges in substrate temperatures. Heat surges may occur early if the substrate is not conditioned properly. Spawn heat surges later in the growing period are a result of the spawn growth and dependent on the spawn and supplement type and rate. The initial first few days substrate activity should be minimal, unless substrate is unfinished and mesophilic microbes become active of the left over food. As tips of the spawn begin to contact each other and then fuse together (anastomose) more metabolic activity occurs. As the metabolic activity increases, more CO2, water vapor, other gases, and heat are produced. Gradually substrate temperature output will increase 6-9 days after spawning. Growers anticipate a heat surge at this time and will lower air temperatures before this heating occurs.

The removal of metabolic heat from the substrate involves conduction and other methods of heat transfer. Conduction is heat transfer by contact, like a touching a spoon in hot soup; eventually one feels the heat of the soup through the spoon. Metabolic heat is moves from one solid particle to another or water molecule to another. Therefore, tightly packed substrate with good moisture will help remove the heat from the substrate. Dense beds, less air spaces, its is easier for heat to be transfer to the surface and then removed. Loose, fluffy substrate is a harder to control more air spaces where heat transfer is slower. When the heat reaches the surface of the substrate heat it is removed by evaporative cooling and convection, heat transfer by circulation of currents from one region to another. Cooler air moving across the surface of the substrate removes the heat from the substrate. Evaporative cooling is the removal of heat when liquid phase turns to gas phase and occurs when dry air moves across the surface substrate moisture is lost and heat removed with it. Too much evaporative cooling is not good, since substrate will tend to dry out too much.

Measuring and Controlling Temperatures during Spawn Growth
The methods used to monitor and control temperatures vary at each farm. The quantity of thermometers used for a room may vary. One may use glass, dial thermometers, or use remote sensing thermocouples with computer control. At least two thermometers are usually placed into the substrate in most mushroom houses, and these are left in the same location throughout the entire spawn-running period.

Several factors should be considered when determining how to and how often one should monitor substrate temperatures. The cooling and volume capacity of the air handling units, substrate nutrition and dry weight are several factors that will determine how easily the spawn temperatures can be controlled during its most active period. At the beginning of spawn growth, when the substrate temperature is uniform, thermometers are usually left in the same location. One should monitor substrate temperature twice a day and during the accelerated spawn-growing period, more often is advisable.

These stationary thermometers are used to represent the range of temperatures encountered in all areas of a room. Probing of the substrate temperatures should be done to insure that the stationary thermometers represent that area of the substrate or room and provide another tool to monitor and control the crop temperatures. Most growers invest time every few days, if not daily, to probe all areas within each house, both upstairs and down, to monitor differences and changes in temperatures. Hand-held rapid response thermometers are inserted into as many spots of compost as possible to monitor temperatures. This probing determines the range of temperature within the substrate and areas of the room. However, it is important to have personnel available to spend the time probing the room. Probing can be done by any trained and culturally clean individual, not necessarily a grower. More uniformity in the substrate's moisture, nutrition and dry weight will reduce the need for extensive comprehensive probing. When the grower has enough experience about how the crop will react and can anticipate when and how much of a heat surge may occur, less probing may be required. After spawning, before the spawn heat surge, during heat surge and before casing are the most critical times to probe.

Probing and or stationary thermometer temperatures are usually averaged into a mean temperature for the room. This average substrate temperature is used to make decisions for raising or lowering the air temperature. Decisions on whether to lower the air temperature or to raise it should be based on both the average substrate temperature and the frequency or distribution of higher temperatures. If the majority of spots are a bit warm then air temperature should be lowered a degree or two. Conversely, if the majority of areas are a bit cool 68 - 72 F, either the air temperature or the volume of air should be decreased since both of these factors can affect the substrate temperature.

The varying air volume during spawn growing to control substrate temperature may be a new consideration for some mushroom growers. The use of air temperature to control substrate temperature is normally how substrate temperatures are controlled. By lowering the air temperature, the substrate temperature is decreased. It may also be obvious that the more air moved through a house, the greater the amount of heat removed from the air in the house and, indirectly, the substrate. If the air is dry, substrate moisture will evaporate and evaporation is a form of cooling. The greater air volume moving through a house and the drier that air, the greater the cooling effect on the substrate.

Substrate temperature control is also dependent of the cooling capacity of the air handling system. Most single-zone bed farms design their air conditioning systems on the requirements during spawn run. Tons of cooling that is required to maintain temperatures range from 2 to 5 tons per 1,000 sq. ft. of growing space. Cooling capacity is also dependent on the location of the farm and weather conditions. Cooling for spawn growth also depends on the air volume, movement and distribution within the room. Substrate density also determines to amount of cooling required, the more substrate dry weight the more cooling that is needed. The condition of the substrate will affect the amount of heating that occurs the first few days of spawn growth. When substrate is not conditioned well, other microbes have food to use and will tend to grow and produce a heat surge early is the spawn growing period. Substrate moisture also affects the temperature control during spawn run. The drier substrate the harder it is for the heat to be removed and substrate will tend to heat more rapidly and for longer time. While wetter substrate has less air in the pore spaces, and heat is conducted more easily, making substrate temperatures easier to control. When hot spots are found the plastic covering the bed should be removed. In addition, additional fans may be directed on the hot spots or one may dig a hole in the substrate and allow the heat to escape.

The spawn-growing period is normally 10-18 days. Longer spawn run times can reduce yield and substrate moisture, thus influencing fresh quality. A short growing time will create more heat production during the time after casing. This additional heat will require more cooling and increase the drying of the casing. The cooler air temperatures will slow the spawn growth into the casing, delaying the flush and first harvest. Spawn growing period is considered complete when the spawn has completely colonized the substrate and the metabolic heat surge is subsiding.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Bulk Substrate HEAT (thermal death range) [Re: agar]
    #5215899 - 01/24/06 07:16 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Very nice post agar, I enjoyed it, I'm sure others will too.


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"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Invisibleohmatic
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Re: Bulk Substrate HEAT (thermal death range) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #5216703 - 01/24/06 01:08 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
Very nice post agar, I enjoyed it, I'm sure others will too.




juuuuuuuuup  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
peace ohm :mushroom2:


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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: Bulk Substrate HEAT (thermal death range) [Re: ohmatic]
    #5708463 - 06/04/06 03:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Probing and or stationary thermometer temperatures are usually averaged into a mean temperature for the room. This average substrate temperature is used to make decisions for raising or lowering the air temperature. Decisions on whether to lower the air temperature or to raise it should be based on both the average substrate temperature and the frequency or distribution of higher temperatures. If the majority of spots are a bit warm then air temperature should be lowered a degree or two. Conversely, if the majority of areas are a bit cool 68 - 72 F, either the air temperature or the volume of air should be decreased since both of these factors can affect the substrate temperature.

question. if the majority of areas are a bit cool. shouldnt the air temperature be in creased and the air volume decreased instead of both?


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OfflineTehCarnivore
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Re: Bulk Substrate HEAT (thermal death range) [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #16382835 - 06/15/12 05:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

You know what else will cook your substrate. Letting your temperature sensor fall out of your incubator and having your thermostat think that it is a cool 18C.

I caught the problem after a couple of hours and hope internal temps didn't get too high.


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Offlinenastos
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Re: Bulk Substrate HEAT (thermal death range) [Re: TehCarnivore]
    #16382845 - 06/15/12 05:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Way to bump a 6 year old thread, agar is the man though.


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OfflinePsychedelicScience
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Re: Bulk Substrate HEAT (thermal death range) [Re: agar]
    #16382854 - 06/15/12 05:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

wait so 80 degrees is bad?? hoe sbout 82? I changed my from 75 to 81 degrees


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OfflineMindash
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Re: Bulk Substrate HEAT (thermal death range) [Re: PsychedelicScience]
    #17612622 - 01/26/13 12:58 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PsychedelicScience said:
wait so 80 degrees is bad?? hoe sbout 82? I changed my from 75 to 81 degrees




yeah could you sum up the original info into somthing that might be a faster read, i have issues with minor dyslexia so long posts become a bit troublesome for me but i also have my incubation chamber normally between 80 and 85 and my first grow i may have even set it to 87 for incubation of my jars. i just lowered it to 77-79 to be safe after glancing over this post but could someone chime in and help my dyslexic ass out? lol


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InvisibleDynGBreeD
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Re: Bulk Substrate HEAT (thermal death range) [Re: Mindash]
    #17612678 - 01/26/13 01:48 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Old ass thread.....
Incubation is unnecessary, unless temperatures drop
below 62. Or you just wish to obtaining an optimal temp
of anywhere between 62-75. Room temp works fine.
Mycelium actually produces a small amount of its own heat
so if your incubating as high as 85, odds are your spawn
or substrate are closer to 90.
Which over 85 starts to slow growth once again defeating the
purposes of raising the temp for faster colonization.
Also the warmer the temperate, the greater risk for contaminants
to sneak in and thrive.


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