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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Unconditional Happines
    #5138097 -

It has been said that enlightenment is a state where happiness is unconditional. Is this truly an achievable state?

Who among us can will himself to be happy regardless of his circumstances? Can an innocent man unjustly imprisoned and tortured or one whose family was murdered force himself to be happy or would that be akin to an insincere apology?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (01/04/06 06:33 PM)

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: Diploid]
    #5138134 -

I think that in theory it should be achievable. Happiness is a state of our brain and it should be possible to keep this happiness state for long periods of time, but I don't think that we can isolate our brain from outside influences like pain etc without other positive influences from outside. A drug could be such an positive input from outside.

If there was a drug like MDMA or heroin(or a combo of different drugs) with no tolerance effects that could keep our brain in a happy state and counter pain and other things that makes us unhappy, it should be possible.

We don't have the power to keep our brain in a constant state of happiness, but I think there is no theorical limit to create a "machine" or chemical that can do that.

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: Diploid]
    #5138156 -

I don't think enlightenment really has much to do with emotions. Enlightenment to me is aquiring knowlege. that knowlege can either make you happy or sad. As for unconditional happiness. I'd say in a way it's possible. i feel as though there is that little part of you that knows things are great and the world can be great and when everything goes to shit you have all those great things that remain constant that you can rely on, whether it be your friends or family, a deep blue sky, the feeling of grass between your toes, whatever it may be. Those things are constant (usually) and i think as long as we don't forget those things unconditional happiness is a possibility. becuase there is nothing that can shake the happiness you feel with those things. I dunno if any of this makes sense.

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Re: Unconditional Happines *DELETED* [Re: Aninator]
    #5138197 -

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: Aninator]
    #5138211 -

I try to live my life as happy as possible and I try to enjoy every moment as much as possible. I really want to get the best out of every moment and that means for me to be as happy as possible at every moment. This means that my goal in life is clear and that I would do everything to achieve this, but there are still moments when I feel like shit.

Alcohol gives me a hangover and I know that I don't achieve anything from feeling shitty due to the alcohol but I can't change it. My conclusion is that I just don't have the control.

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: Diploid]
    #5138259 -

Diploid said:
It has been said that enlightenment is a state where happiness is unconditional. Is this truly an achievable state?



c'mon, where does it say that?
this is probably from some conversation in which saying heaven and enlightenment are the same suggests a commonality between two fundamentally dissimilar religions.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: dorkus]
    #5138350 -

dr_mandelbrot said:
Maybe the point is to stop desiring unconditional happiness too?

No-one can be happy all the time.

From a more detached point of view happiness is more like a vibration and we are conditioned to chase it and hold on to it. But it's like grasping fluid, it will always slip away.

If we just wait and accept, it will come back. That is to stay beyond the waves. Observing without condemning.


I think this would be more like it. I have never been in any continual state, but of course I am not enlightened. It's hard to say what enlightenment would be like without being such.

I find that unconditional acceptance of life as it unfolds, is plenty of challenge for me in this life.

The longer I live and look into these things the more I understand them and the less sure I am of drawing any conclusions from what I understand.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (01/04/06 11:44 AM)

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: Icelander]
    #5138381 -

I find that unconditional acceptance of life as it unfolds, is plenty of challenge for me in this life.

Same here. I can only accept it when I consciously think about it and come to the conclusion that it is the "best" thing for me to do, but it is not (yet) part of my normal life (can't find the right words here, but you know what I mean).

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: Annom]
    #5138697 -

why not?

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: Diploid]
    #5138875 -

It has been said that enlightenment is a state where happiness is unconditional. Is this truly an achievable state?

That seems silly. Enlightenment as I've heard it, is the realization of the perfection of everything, everywhere, for eternity. It does not give one the superhuman ability to transcend emotions. It allows one to fully accept the here and now, so it doesn't really matter whether you're blissful or in agony, you realize things are the way they should be, and have nothing but love and compassion.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Unconditional Happiness [Re: lysergicide]
    #5138985 -

Happiness can be an independent mind state from outside circumstances.

I can go there when ever I want. It would be much more of a challenge if and when being tortured though.:lol:

It's about state of mind and what you are thinking and more so HOW you are thinking. Here are thought forms that support happy states of being and when you are happy, you are probably engaging in one of them-

You probably are experiencing something you feel lucky or fortunate about
You probably are in a state of appreciating something.
You probably are in a state of being really generous and forgiving
You probably are in a state of good humor and taking things lightly.

Those are thought forms that support the rise of happy feelings. When applied to a current situation they can bring them about.

Want to get happy about something?- Use the above list to change your thinking patterns and you're there. One alone can do it. Get them all humming and you'll be flying higher then a kite.

Being in a state of generosity and forgiveness brings about a lot  happiness, just in the form of relief alone. Just apply it when your being an awnry stubborn bastard and your on your way.

Being in a state of appreciation brings on a lot of happiness. Just apply it when you are feeling sorry for yourself about what you don't have, and take stock of all things you do others wish they did-

good health
good friends
supportive family
home, clothes, food
great weather
car
convenience gadgets
job
education
someone who loves you unconditionally

There are people in this world who would be SOOOOO happy to get just one of the above and how many do you have?

You are responsible for how much weight of seriousness you give a situation. You can quit taking something so seriously and lighten up about it at any time by not making it matter so much compared to how things could be worse and in a light of a bigger picture that alone reduces its scale and size. Do that and you are on your way to a state of happy relief.

Look for what is funny about a situation- it's always there, even if its the way you or another is acting like a total spaz. Or maybe your pissed about a botched hair cut. It'll grow out soon. Laugh at how funny it looks in the mean time and quit taking yourself so seriously. make fun of it yourself. You're not your hair.

I'm generally pretty happy going most of the time, because I use these thought forms A LOT.

And when I find myself not happy about something, I remember to use them and I am on way and soon there once again.

By the way- these are conditions that provide happy states of being.
However, they are conditions you have FULL and COMPLETE control over. You don't have to make any demand on your external environment for them to be met. Happiness to me is only conditional upon these thought forms being in use and you are free to use and apply them them whenever you want to.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: dorkus]
    #5139662 -

dr_mandelbrot said:
Maybe the point is to stop desiring unconditional happiness too?



:smile: Agreed!

Treadmill Hedonism :thumbdown:
Should we always wish to be happy? Sure! Should we always expect to be happy? Of course not! It is alright to feel depressed sometimes. Being depressed makes the rise of the next wave feel even higher.

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: Annom]
    #5139961 -

If there was a drug like MDMA or heroin(or a combo of different drugs) with no tolerance effects that could keep our brain in a happy state and counter pain and other things that makes us unhappy, it should be possible.

Even if such a drug existed, I don't think it would work. In general, people who suddenly come into a lot of money are very happy for a while, then some psychological thermostat compensates and they rebound to their previous disposition whatever it was.

Kinda like regaining weight after dieting, eh?  :tongue:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: Diploid]
    #5140027 -

Yes, I believe the two result from a very similar mechanism: unconscious habits. 

In the case of the lottery winners, they believe that the $$ will make them happy, and the thrill of winning initially obscures the negative mental habits which create misery.  Once the thrill wears off, they are back to their self-created misery.

Same with the dieters, they cut back on food & exercise more in order to lose the weight, then return to the eating habits which created the excess weight in the first place.

Silly humans.  :rolleyes:

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: Veritas]
    #5140060 -

Silly humans.

"Unconditional happiness is for kids."


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: Veritas]
    #5140072 -

Silly humans.

And they keep saying we were Intelligently Designed. Balony!


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5140082 -

redgreenvines said:
Diploid said:
It has been said that enlightenment is a state where happiness is unconditional. Is this truly an achievable state?



c'mon, where does it say that?
this is probably from some conversation in which saying heaven and enlightenment are the same suggests a commonality between two fundamentally dissimilar religions.


actually no, diploid is correct. many buddhists have said enlightenment provides abiding peace or "happiness". it has nothing to do with comparisons accross religions.


i put happiness in quotes because enlightened happiness is said to be different from the every day elation you feel when things go your way. buddhists do not even consider this elation to be complete happiness so in actuality the very definition of enlightenment could be said to be complete happiness.

Edited by Deviate (01/04/06 06:43 PM)

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: Deviate]
    #5140303 -

well, then maybe he is right in spirit but not in the words used?
ok?
I aggree that "abiding peace" is applicable to the notion of enlightenment (similar to working from a base of tranquility) while
unconditional happiness is totally a different package altogether.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5140331 -

i think you're right in that when buddhists equate enlightenment with happiness they don't mean the same thing diploid thinks of when he sees the word happiness.

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Re: Unconditional Happines [Re: Deviate]
    #5141897 -

I don't think they do that equation


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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