Icelander said:

The brain it seems acts as a filter on chaos. Why? So we can experience physical reality without going out of our nut.(tonal)

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Droz said:

You are definetly trying to make sense of what i said, for you have no clue what chaos is, you are trying to bring order from something that wasn't even chaotic, chaos is well known when one does not have to read it has to think before it acts.

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Actually, both "chaos" and "order" are both creations of our own mind, as they both relate to our understanding of that which we decide is chaotic or orderly.

Existance itself simply is. It isn't chaos. It wasn't chaos before humans started perceiving it. Chaos is the result of our observing a system but not comprehending the mechanics from which the system arises. It would be more correct to state that "In the beginning, there was Order", as it should remain obvious that the system is as it is now as a result of specific means, that there are mechanics that gave rise to it.

Yet the system itself simply is as it is. No order and especially no chaos - sorry, my friend.


Peace.

headset said:

[Basically, i fully agree chaos is natures way of creation, and everything in nature follows it without question - and its only with the formation of our ego's and hyperdeveloped mind that we've created systems which betray the eternal laws of the universe and we now blindly take for granted.

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Chaos isn't nature's way of creation. Nature's way of creation is orderly in that it has specific mechanics by which it creates. Cause and effect, fundamental scientific laws, etc. etc. etc. Chaos is merely the result of our failure to take into consideration all variables and aspects of the system which we are observing.

Is the innerworkings of our atmosphere and its weather patterns chaos? Does it not have order? Is it chaos when the butterfly flaps its wings and a tsunami strikes on the other side of the globe? Of course not. It is only chaos from our limited perspective that cannot take into account the vast amount of variables within the atmosphere and the series in which they interact. There certainly is an order to the weather's occurence, and the fact that, even though we cannot create a perfect model and understanding of the atmosphere, we can use a generalized, more limited model to make general, limited predictions is evidence towards that.

Let us not take the failings and limitations of our own perspective and thus prescribe the universe as being chaotic and without order. That would be sort of ignorant of us, now wouldn't it?


Peace.

headset said:

You missed the point fireworks_god: i said "through chaos stems all order" and its quite clear to me that there is order in the examples you provided.

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Quote:

Granted, chaos is just our way of perceiving it - its how we communicate it.

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It may be some people's way of perceiving it, but the fact that their perception of reality does not reflect reality as it truly exists is to be noted and considered. Chaos as a mathematical term, by the way, a reference to a dynamic system whose current state of interaction has a necessary dependance on the system's initial starting conditions, would definitely reflect the universe as I have come to understand it.

However, considering the nature of the original post and the manner in which the term "chaos" was being offset by order, it is rather suggestive that this was not the type of chaos being discussed. This remains obvious, as the description of "chaos" originating from mathematics implies order. This "chaos" is order, simply a type of order.

Quote:

I was just saying that sometimes i feel the mechanisms of order within my own psyche, and in order to *break the mold* so to speak and achieve freedom i think abandoning rationalization and intuition may be beneficial in the big picture.

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I do not comprehend how abandoning your rational thought processes and your intuition (which has originated from your direct experience of reality) would be in any way beneficial in this manner. All we understand of the nature of reality and the development of ourselves is from this past experience and the thought processes that have arisen as a result.

It is impossible to deny this or to abandon it. To refer to this mathematical definition of chaos that I just invoked, who we are and our position in reality (the only position from which we can perceive and understand reality, naturally ) is sensitively dependant on the initial starting conditions of this system known as the universe (which we are an aspect of) and the progression of interaction from those starting conditions.

It is, of course, entirely possible to refine, modify, change, and evolve our thought processes, in order to experience reality differerently, which would then alter our intuition. We are always changing as a result of our state of constant interaction within our universe anyways.

Pertaining to your mention of freedom, I would need to inquire as to what it is that you seek freedom from.


Peace.