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Offlineexclusive58
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Registered: 04/16/04
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Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution
    #2917043 - 07/22/04 07:36 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

  These wars, famines, floods and quakes meet well defined needs. Man wants chaos. In fact, he's got to have it. Depressions, strife, riots, murder, all this dread. We're irresistibly drawn to that almost orgiastic state created out of death and destruction. It's in all of us. We revel in it. Sure, the media tries to put a sad face on these things, painting them up as great human tragedies, but we all know the function of the media has never been to eliminate the evils of the world. No! Their job is to persuade us to accept those evils and get used to living with them. The powers that be want us to be passive observers.  




-Quoted from Waking Life


I see more and more stories that are being told on the future of humanity...deadly diseases, giant floods, atomic wars, rule of the machines, meteor catastrophes, etc...
I'm not saying these theories are wrong, all I'm pointing out is that all these predictions could very well be based on some inner need for chaos rather than anything else.

Observe the working of your mind as you turn on the TV to watch the news some time...
That's what i did, and I am honestly ashamed to admit to this horrible truth: I am in lust for chaos. This is a personal revelation i am making only in the purpose to make a stronger point of this post. I hope you can reveal this to yourself as well.
Seriously observe yourself when you turn on the TV, and only then get back to me to tell me if my case is unique, even though i doubt it is.
I think that all people want chaos and destruction, whether they like to admit it or not. Its in us, its there, its like a deeply rooted instinct.


Now on to the second part of this post.

Why? What is the purpose of it?
Certainly this 'instinct' does not help one to survive. So what is it for?
Well, basic survival instincts serve the purpose of Evolution, why wouldn't this point be valid here as well?
So the question becomes, How could our need for chaos help our own evolution?


First of all, let me say that I think that the creation of civilization and of society was an inevitability from the moment that humans became conscious.

Second, societies and cultures ARE responsible for morals, and beliefs in different morals lead to clashes and conflicts.

Morals are the science of the ideal order of life. But since morals are not universal, and since our society is based on morals, then our society is continuously striving for some unattainable Order.

IMO, society is also a prison. To quote Rousseau, "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in shackles. "

If society is a prison, and if this prison tries to represent Order, then what is Chaos ?



OK wait a sec, let me recapitulate:
Here we are, us humans, living in an emprisonning society that is striving for Order, while inside of us, there is something telling us we need some Chaos.

I would think that this lust for chaos is created by the daily negative psychological/spiritual impact that society has on our mind. Except we are not sure where the chaos is really needed.
When i turn the TV on, i might realize i lust for catastrophes, but when i see people dying and suffering, it doesn't make me happy.
Will this lust for chaos ever be satisfied, and if so, in what situation??

We are wrong when we "hope" for disasters such as the ones i mentioned earlier, because we do not know what our mind is trying to get to, which is that the only violence it hopes for is the one brought by the Revolution.
Our inner selves cannot eat the shit that our society is feeding us anymore, and i think that this feeling is spreading around the world.

I would think that we are naturally inclined to make the Revolution. We just have to realize we need one. We just have to wake up.


...just a thought...




Sorry if this was a complicated read, it was hard for me to make the correlation between the lust for chaos and the revolution. If you can bring in anymore arguments to make the link betwen the two, that would make me very happy! :smile:


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Invisibletak
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: exclusive58]
    #2917065 - 07/22/04 07:44 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I lust for a revolution but not chaos or violence.


--------------------
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Offlinepurge
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Registered: 07/22/04
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: exclusive58]
    #2918043 - 07/22/04 11:49 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Not to disagree with you, but personally I think the need for chaos comes more from a spiritual need. I know that sounds screwed, but bear with me a second here. Everybody always asks, "why are we here?", right? Well I think we're here to experience. Not anything in particular, just to experience.

Now, where did we come from, to be here and experience? If you read trip reports, specifically of people who've gone beyond ego death, a lot of times you find a common theme. An overwhelming feeling of comfort, and knowledge, and of being reconnected to everything. So let's say we came from "the all". You can call it Heaven or Nirvana or whatever you want, but for the sake of arguement, let's say it's a perfect place (even though it's not really a place, per say).

Now, if you came from a perfect place, where everything was peaceful and calm and joyful and whole and just generally all around awesome, and the purpose of the journey was to experience things, would you try to experience the things you could experience simply by reconnecting to the all?

I believe that's why humanity will never achieve a perfect existence. Our souls revel in the things that cause us and others discomfort. Not because those things are good or bad, but because they are different.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: purge]
    #2918536 - 07/23/04 12:59 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

i had a thread about the evolutionary nessisity of questioning ones existence, or killing themself.

it may be that the order we created doesnt serve functions that are good for humanity.
so percieved chaos would really be like a clensing forest fire.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: BleaK]
    #2918625 - 07/23/04 01:12 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Or what if all of our order and our systems were all really in essence made up of chaos polarized into shape by will power. Since everything is already Chaos controlled, it would make sence that chaos errupts as well.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: MAGnum]
    #2918644 - 07/23/04 01:13 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MAGnum said:
Or what if all of our order and our systems were all really in essence made up of chaos polarized into shape by will power. Since everything is already Chaos controlled, it would make sence that chaos errupts as well.




i dont think things are naturally chaotic.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: BleaK]
    #2918868 - 07/23/04 01:58 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Why not? Our concept of order is from within. To say it is not chaotic because people have deemed it orderly doesn't mean much. It's like assigning right and wrong, good and evil. The concepts come from within the individual and have the ability to manifest themselves within others since our species is highly evolved in communication. When you really look at it, order is chaos which we think we understand.

Chinese is a very structured language. It has order.

If I never learned or spoke or heard of chinese and I heard someone speak it, I would hear nothing but babbling and chaos. That is that.

In nature, everything is chaos. Because it is choas, anything can happen. Thus we have reality. Reality is everything and it randomizes itself all around us. We ourselves are inseparable from it. Inside our mind we put order to it and even render the stuff around us to make sence to us.

Does paving roads make sence to a duck?

To us it has perpose and the team of people are working together to put down the tar and steam roll it while cars are going by.

The duck knows that something is going on, but it has no idea why and it's all chaos to the animal. All it sees is a bunch of big ground animals moving a bunch of smelly, hot crap around. A duck doesn't see why we would work with tar.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: MAGnum]
    #2918967 - 07/23/04 02:36 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MAGnum said:
Why not? Our concept of order is from within. To say it is not chaotic because people have deemed it orderly doesn't mean much. It's like assigning right and wrong, good and evil. The concepts come from within the individual and have the ability to manifest themselves within others since our species is highly evolved in communication. When you really look at it, order is chaos which we think we understand.

Chinese is a very structured language. It has order.

If I never learned or spoke or heard of chinese and I heard someone speak it, I would hear nothing but babbling and chaos. That is that.

In nature, everything is chaos. Because it is choas, anything can happen. Thus we have reality. Reality is everything and it randomizes itself all around us. We ourselves are inseparable from it. Inside our mind we put order to it and even render the stuff around us to make sence to us.

Does paving roads make sence to a duck?

To us it has perpose and the team of people are working together to put down the tar and steam roll it while cars are going by.

The duck knows that something is going on, but it has no idea why and it's all chaos to the animal. All it sees is a bunch of big ground animals moving a bunch of smelly, hot crap around. A duck doesn't see why we would work with tar.




our concept of chaos is also from within.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: BleaK]
    #2919040 - 07/23/04 03:00 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I said: [B]In nature, everything is chaos. Because it is choas, anything can happen. Thus we have reality. Reality is everything and it randomizes itself all around us.

Basically I am saying that everything is chaos before we can even concieve what chaos is. Reality is still chaotic before we percieve chaos. Yes our concept of chaos is from with in, but all things are chaos to begin with.

We simply impose order upon chaos within our own minds or we see chaos for what it is.


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OfflineSource
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: MAGnum]
    #2919105 - 07/23/04 03:31 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Nice post.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: Source]
    #2919127 - 07/23/04 03:39 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Thankyou, I try to only say something if I really mean it.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: exclusive58]
    #2919145 - 07/23/04 03:47 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Chaos is natural, and with chaos comes change, and with change comes evolution. If everything was order, then the world would be static and unchanging, but instead it is chaos and will allow for constant adaptations and strengths and weaknesses to come out. When the world is filled with chaos, many humans sense an opportunity to free themselves of old chains, and to have themselves change in the fluctuations of the outer world

The ideas of order and chaos come from within humans anyway, there really is no order or chaos. The universe simply is, it has change, which is neither chaos or order but just becoming different


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: MAGnum]
    #2919165 - 07/23/04 03:52 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MAGnum said:
I said: [B]In nature, everything is chaos. Because it is choas, anything can happen. Thus we have reality. Reality is everything and it randomizes itself all around us.

Basically I am saying that everything is chaos before we can even concieve what chaos is. Reality is still chaotic before we percieve chaos. Yes our concept of chaos is from with in, but all things are chaos to begin with.

We simply impose order upon chaos within our own minds or we see chaos for what it is.




i dont understand your reason for thinking nature is inherintly chaotic.

it seems to me things work quite smoothly.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: Ravus]
    #2921050 - 07/23/04 05:29 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

When the world is filled with chaos, many humans sense an opportunity to free themselves of old chains...

Your saying that like if the world becomes chaotic from time to time...
Starting from the point when humans arose to consciousness, Chaos has never been present.

But ,to stay on topic, i think that if there is a planetary revolution, it could be considered as a momentary chaos, and if Shroomism doesn't take care of stuff when this happens :wink:, it is possible that chaos stays with us for awhile after the revolution

Anyways, there aren't any real responses to my thought, at least i hope it was thought provoking


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: exclusive58]
    #2921062 - 07/23/04 05:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
When the world is filled with chaos, many humans sense an opportunity to free themselves of old chains...

Your saying that like if the world becomes chaotic from time to time...
Starting from the point when humans arose to consciousness, Chaos has never been present.

But ,to stay on topic, i think that if there is a planetary revolution, it could be considered as a momentary chaos, and if Shroomism doesn't take care of stuff when this happens :wink:, it is possible that chaos stays with us for awhile after the revolution

Anyways, there aren't any real responses to my thought, at least i hope it was thought provoking




when an overweight person burns calories, is it chaos?

burn people.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: BleaK]
    #2923777 - 07/24/04 04:46 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

no, that's only a small scale chemical reaction
i guess if you multiplied that scale by a million, then it could be quite representative of the chaos i was talkin about :smile:


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: exclusive58]
    #2924160 - 07/24/04 07:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
no, that's only a small scale chemical reaction
i guess if you multiplied that scale by a million, then it could be quite representative of the chaos i was talkin about :smile:




as below so above.


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Offlineepi
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: exclusive58]
    #2924586 - 07/24/04 10:44 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I do agree that destruction is one of man's greatest vices, but I do not agree with the implication that the chaos and destruction is wholly useless. In fact, it reminds me of some theory I learned about working-out. One damage's one's muscle cells, and replenishes them with protein, and they will rebuild themselves stronger than before. I see similarities in these two cycles. The collective population that remains, due to their strengths/intelligence, will thus have an increased average of survival skills or whatever it was they needed to learn. It seems to me like a selective breeding process, perpetrated either by some inert human instinct driving us to evolve and improve our genes through these violent revolutions; or, perhaps caused by the survival skills of mother nature in an attempt to fight back against human gluttony. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Death is the garbage man and the easiest solution to our overpopulation. Finally, I would like to ask: do any of you see signs of our cycle arriving at revolution again? If so, how could you see it benefitting the subsequent world?


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Our Lust for Chaos and the Revolution [Re: epi]
    #2924630 - 07/24/04 11:10 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

You gotta break some eggs to make an omelet!


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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