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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: leviticus2013]
    #4608137 -

add chaos to the equation. There is infinite possible outcomes. What you form from this chaos is free will. If you say they will go to hell for stealing the variable you call stealing has been replaced by "taking what they need". No one is going to hell for "taking what they need".

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4608144 -

OldWoodSpecter said:
But free-will itself defies the laws of the universe. I mean all the variables are here: the specific grid of neurons, the surroundings, stimulations etc. There is only one outcome.
How can the result be unpredictable if all the variables are considered?


Consider quantum mechanics/physics...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4608157 -

BlueCoyote said:
OldWoodSpecter said:
a human can die out of many reasons, for example, someone may kill himself for not having jewelry, in which cas jewelry was necessary for his existence because lack of it caused suicide


Heh, as trendal said about will, that is no 'natural cause' of death...that is mental illness as cause of death.
I would seperate them as one more physical, the other more spiritual, psychological...



death is death, and there is always a cause, you can group the causes in two or three or million groups, it makes no difference


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4608164 -

BlueCoyote said:
OldWoodSpecter said:
But free-will itself defies the laws of the universe. I mean all the variables are here: the specific grid of neurons, the surroundings, stimulations etc. There is only one outcome.
How can the result be unpredictable if all the variables are considered?


Consider quantum mechanics/physics...


quantum physics as well as the chaos theory is just another way of saying: gee, this is too complicated for us


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: leviticus2013]
    #4608175 -

z10n said:
add chaos to the equation. There is infinite possible outcomes. What you form from this chaos is free will. If you say they will go to hell for stealing the variable you call stealing has been replaced by "taking what they need". No one is going to hell for "taking what they need".


Chaos does not exist. Matematicians use the word chaos to describe that which is beyond our level of calculation. As mathematics develop, the chaos fields reduces in size, in the end it dissapears.
Spoken by the words of a chaos matematician (can't quote him, this is from memory)


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4608216 -

Chaos is another way of saying "massive sudden changes of variables in a calculation"

Edited by z10n (09/01/05 01:08 PM)

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: Swami]
    #4610471 -

"Think about life from Truth, not about Truth from life." - Vernon Howard





--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4610567 -

there was a riot on the streets,
tell me where were you?
You were sittin' home watchin' your TV,
while I was paticipatin' in some anarchy.

First spot we hit it was my liqour store.
I finally got all that alcohol I can't afford.
With red lights flashin' time to retire,
And then we turned that liquor store into a structure fire.

Next stop we hit it was the music shop,
It only took one brick to make that window drop.
Finally we got our own p.a.
Where do you think I got this guitar that you're hearing today?
Hey!

(call fire, respond mobil station.
alamidos in Anahiem,
its uhh flamin up good.
10-4 Alamidos in Anaheim)

Never doin no time

When we returned to the pad to unload everything,
It dawned on me that I need new home furnishings.
So once again we filled the van until it was full,
since that day my livin' room's been more comfortable.

Cause everybody in the hood has had it up to here,
It's getting harder and harder and harder each and every year.

Some kids went in a store with thier mother,
I saw her when she came out she was gettin some pampers.

They said it was for the black man,
they said it was for the mexican,
and not for the white man.

But if you look at the streets it wasn't about Rodney King,
It's bout this fucked up situation and these fucked up police.
It's about coming up and staying on top
and screamin' 187 on a mother fuckin' cop.
It's not written on the paper it's on the wall.
National guard??!
Smoke from all around,

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: leviticus2013]
    #4614658 -

Has this thread done anything to prevent looting?


--------------------
I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4615041 -

OldWoodSpecter said:
but thinking for the purpuse of survival of self may be damaging for other people, which makes it a very limited and ineficient way of thinking, one one hand the humanity gains (those who steal get something( , on the other hand it loses (those who had the things now lost them), and you are back where you were.


Even if it is damaging for other people, this doesn't necessarilly mean that it is an inefficient way of thinking. That is an opinion that would be relative to the situation. This is why it is a "struggle" for survival. Some will gain, some will lose, it is inevitable.

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: Jellric]
    #4615256 -

Free will is a universal right. Impeccability calls upon the self to surrender free will to divine will in faith and love.


--------------------

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: Shroomism]
    #4615270 -

That sounds wonderful, but how does it relate to real life? If you found yourself with those you love in post-Katrina New Orleans and a drug addicted straggler aimed a gun at them, would you passively grant them their "divine free will" or would you exercise your own? Remember, I know you.  :wink:


--------------------
I am what Willis was talkin' bout.

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: Jellric]
    #4615349 -

If someone was pointing a gun at my loved ones I would exercise my free will to fuck him up.

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4615510 -

OldWoodSpecter said:
BlueCoyote said:
OldWoodSpecter said:
a human can die out of many reasons, for example, someone may kill himself for not having jewelry, in which cas jewelry was necessary for his existence because lack of it caused suicide


Heh, as trendal said about will, that is no 'natural cause' of death...that is mental illness as cause of death.
I would seperate them as one more physical, the other more spiritual, psychological...



death is death, and there is always a cause, you can group the causes in two or three or million groups, it makes no difference


I want to group death in nescessary and unnescessary, avoidable versus unavoidable... I see a strong difference here


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4617502 -

OldWoodSpecter said:
Most spiritual doctrines forbid stealing, even in times of hunger, so you can't really say stealing is spiritual


Hmmmm? Yes and no.

The Bible allows for hungry strangers, hungry travelers, generally poor folks etc... to take crops from the edges of a farmers field. It was known as gleaning. Even the farmers would refrain from harvesting the edges for the poor to have. As a Jew/Christian someone who is hungry that has taken food to eat would not be a thief. They would simply be gleaning what they needed or what you had left behind.

If the person who you are taking the food from does not recognize this God given right, then yes it would be stealing.


--------------------
Diabetes causes hamsters.

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: it stars saddam]
    #4617551 -

itstarssaddam said:
OldWoodSpecter said:
but thinking for the purpuse of survival of self may be damaging for other people, which makes it a very limited and ineficient way of thinking, one one hand the humanity gains (those who steal get something( , on the other hand it loses (those who had the things now lost them), and you are back where you were.


Even if it is damaging for other people, this doesn't necessarilly mean that it is an inefficient way of thinking. That is an opinion that would be relative to the situation. This is why it is a "struggle" for survival. Some will gain, some will lose, it is inevitable.


It is ineficient for humanity, of course it is efficient for those who think less than humanity (who think family, state, gang etc.) , but such thinking is on teenage level of brain development anyway, so no point in discussing it.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: Bamaman]
    #4617554 -

Bamaman said:
OldWoodSpecter said:
Most spiritual doctrines forbid stealing, even in times of hunger, so you can't really say stealing is spiritual


Hmmmm? Yes and no.

The Bible allows for hungry strangers, hungry travelers, generally poor folks etc... to take crops from the edges of a farmers field. It was known as gleaning. Even the farmers would refrain from harvesting the edges for the poor to have. As a Jew/Christian someone who is hungry that has taken food to eat would not be a thief. They would simply be gleaning what they needed or what you had left behind.

If the person who you are taking the food from does not recognize this God given right, then yes it would be stealing.


that is a mutual agreement of the society, it's not stealing


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4617694 -

OldWoodSpecter said:
that is a mutual agreement of the society, it's not stealing


that makes sense since the majority of this country read from the Old and New Testaments. Their faith tells them it's not.


--------------------
Diabetes causes hamsters.

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: Swami]
    #4618004 -

The urge to steal is overwhelming on human nature. What is someone elses labor can be your in an instant freely. Think of a jewelry shop... 500,000 dollars of gold and gems lying before you, all you have to do is shatter some glass. No cameras, no police, no shootout... just you and your own choice...
Do you take it because you know if you don't someone else will and they will probably use that gold for negative means, or do you take it yourself because you are either greedy or think this is a gift from god or other chance in life to overcome certain obstacles such as financial ruin?
If you have the guns you ruled the city, I imagine several criminal organizations mobilized operations at FIRST SIGN of this storm. They camped out near the red zone on higher ground or in secure buildings with boats, guns, wet gear, dive mask, food and water, and a team of probably 2+. And so the mayhem unfolded despite grannies raiding wall mart for food and water, the 'clean looters' who only stole food or drinks to survive.
Which is worse, and who has come to help us?


--------------------
these long agonizing months without you...have been long and agonizing..
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Only Decides Who's Left."

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Re: Post Hurricane Looting [Re: Bamaman]
    #4618761 -

Bamaman said:
OldWoodSpecter said:
that is a mutual agreement of the society, it's not stealing


that makes sense since the majority of this country read from the Old and New Testaments. Their faith tells them it's not.


Beliefs define what is and what is not stealing. Even in our society.
The REAL truth is (outside beliefs of people) is that nobody owns anything really


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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