Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Original Sensible Seeds Shop: Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds, Feminized Cannabis Seeds, High THC Strains

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |  [ show all ]
depression is major trouble [Re: Icelander]
    #4290426 -

I used to agree -
and for some people life is manageable - addressable without a pill.

I no longer even have an opinion about abortion that I can stand unwaveringly behind.

I have seen much suffering alleviated (truly) by antidepressants and by abortions. One must re-evaluation preconceptions according to what actually happens in the world around us.

personally I feel more responsible for mental contents and actions, but I have been lucky so far perhaps - and I cannot abide by people suffering due to strict adherence to a belief system, even my own.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: Icelander]
    #4290722 -

Icelander said:
I'm sure you are right and... Depression is often a sane reaction to living an inauthentic life. Here's my personal experience.

I grew up in a very dysfunctional home. I was very depressed. Did I have a chemical imbalance. Of course, I would have to. Was I born with it. I don't think so. I was in counseling twice. Both councilors said I was severely depressed. Both agreed why when I told my story. I got better in therapy. It was hard scary work. I didn't want to do it and would force myself to go to my appointments.

I think had I gone to a psychiatrist I would have been put on some kind of medication. But I didn't need that. I needed to take responsibility for loving my dysfunctional self and changing the way I talked to myself. It was hard work. I had to face and remember a lot of things I didn't want to. It would have in the short run been much easier to take some meds. But without taking responsibility for my own welfare I don't think I would have gotten better.

I have friends and work with people who are on meds for depression. Maybe they have that chemical imbalance from birth. But I do see how they treat themselves and how they talk about themselves and the life choices they make.

So maybe it's both. Some have the chemical imbalance to begin with and some create that imbalance because they were taught to live an inauthentic life.


yup.

I believe those who are have genuine imbalances are much more rare than those who simply do not know how to pull themselves up or take care of themselves.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: depression is major trouble [Re: looner2]
    #4290730 -

After a severe bout of post-partum depression over a decade ago, I decided to learn as much about the emotional/spiritual AND the chemical/physical causes of depression.

I do not think it is possible to look at the aspects separately, as they do "feed into" one another.  However, in "The Care of the Soul" by Thomas Moore, I discovered a unique viewpoint on depression.

He proposes that depression is natural and beneficial.  He likened it to an emotional winter, during which the seeds of our spiritual growth lie dormant while we break down the organic matter of our experiences. 

Perhaps the "disease" or "chemical imbalance" we are running from and debating methods to cure is part of our growth and learning?

After reading Moore's book, I chose to enter into depressive episodes with curiousity and patience.  I have learned so much from my "down" times.  They have helped me stop hurrying and start noticing.  Stop doing and start being.  I would not say that I ENJOY being depressed, but I do not wish to be cured.

Each year since my major depression, I have spent more time in contentment and happiness.  Regardless of the circumstances of my life, I continue to experience more joy and more bliss.  This is the gift of depression.  :heartpump:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: Vvellum]
    #4290750 -

consider suffering and the alleviation of it, and do what is most practical based on the situation. prepare to recant if you were wrong.

unfortunately we cannot actually tell what someone else is really feeling so it is very hard to judge if there is a problem of habit or a problem that has become organic.

both cognitive therapy and antidepressants can be a great treatment to very serious problems that are more common than anyone would like to admit.

many are too ashamed to admit the extent of cognitive problems they endure daily.

we need to encourage asking for help more than pulling a holier than thou face on this issue.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: looner2]
    #4290873 -

Your right. Thats why I've come to think I don't deserve to be happy.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4291019 -

it's not a matter of being holier than thou - it is a matter of recognizing that alot of people eat shit diets, do not exercise, watch excessive amounts of television, do not drink water, etc. It is a matter of recognizing that humans do not respond well to that.

I think the risks of just giving someone a pill is far greater than telling them go eat right and go running regularly. The "take-this-pill-and-all-will-be-well" mentality is poisionous.

the western world is way too over-prescribed - it's a dumb trend.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: Vvellum]
    #4291057 -

you are right
of course
but you now have to be sensitive and effective in your rightness


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: Icelander]
    #4292324 -

Icelander said:
I'm sure you are right and... Depression is often a sane reaction to living an inauthentic life. Here's my personal experience.

I grew up in a very dysfunctional home. I was very depressed. Did I have a chemical imbalance. Of course, I would have to. Was I born with it. I don't think so. I was in counseling twice. Both councilors said I was severely depressed. Both agreed why when I told my story. I got better in therapy. It was hard scary work. I didn't want to do it and would force myself to go to my appointments.

I think had I gone to a psychiatrist I would have been put on some kind of medication. But I didn't need that. I needed to take responsibility for loving my dysfunctional self and changing the way I talked to myself. It was hard work. I had to face and remember a lot of things I didn't want to. It would have in the short run been much easier to take some meds. But without taking responsibility for my own welfare I don't think I would have gotten better.

I have friends and work with people who are on meds for depression. Maybe they have that chemical imbalance from birth. But I do see how they treat themselves and how they talk about themselves and the life choices they make.

So maybe it's both. Some have the chemical imbalance to begin with and some create that imbalance because they were taught to live an inauthentic life.


Indeed. What works for one may not work for others. Glad to hear you beat it though! :thumbup: That's a tough job, for sure. I commend you. :laugh:
And it's hard to say what exactly is going on, since there is really so little still known about the incredibly complex chemical factory that is our brain....

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4292332 -

My mother, her brother (my uncle) and myself all suffered from prolonged periods of severe depression. So it would be real easy for me to blame it on my genes and the chemical imbalance in the brain. But I think the medical science got it all wrong. The depression that is moving on from one generation to the next is not to be blamed on the genes, but on the unresolved traumas and other mental issues our grandparents passed on to our parents, our parents on to us and if unresolved us to our children. It's almost funny how these questions are never addressed in the formal clinical studies of depression.

I've noticed a lot of people don't wont to face the darker sides of themselves, the issues that lie unresolved in the deep unconsciousness and make themselves known by depression, phobias, anxieties, nightmares, avoidances, etc. People also don't want to face the darker issues of the society and the environment they live in. War, environment degradation, poverty, etc. can all contribute to the feelings of depression as much as personal issues can, but we all keep on going as if nothing should effect us. In a way, it's not that strange so many people are seriously depressed.

As Icelander already said, diving into the darker side is hard work and it's much easier to be put on medication. And once on medication, one is not healed as wrongly assumed. One has only cut himself off from the voice that is telling him something is seriously wrong and needs to be addressed in the light of the day. It's the same thing with depression and anti-depressants as it is with anxiety and the use of tranquillisers. These are not "disorders" to be "healed", but symptoms of much deeper issues that need to be addressed.

This darker work was once much easier, as one had the support of his entire community that took care of him, understood and respected his fight with the demons and overall showed respect for the work he was doing. Unlike today, when depressed people are avoided as plague and encouraged to "just get over it".

In the end we all have to decide for ourselves. We can be put on meds for the rest of our lives, believe in the chemical imbalance story and with it put an end to our issues for ever, or we can dive into the depths of hell itself and hope to rise from it one day, as Phoenix from it's ashes, transformed by our depression, back into the world.


--------------------

"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #4292351 -

One more time - as no one seems to want to DIRECTLY address the issue: what does it tell us if depression can be induced in ANYBODY?

I am not abdicting eliminating responsibility, but in looking deeper at the causes.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: Swami]
    #4292416 -

If depression could/can be induced in ANYBODY it would suggest that there is some sort of universal mechanism which underlies depression.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: badchad]
    #4292437 -

badchad said:
If depression could/can be induced in ANYBODY it would suggest that there is some sort of universal mechanism which underlies depression.


A lot of Neurologists and Psychiatrists suspect this too. But we probably won't know for sure for some time....

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: Swami]
    #4292454 -

"Regarding depression as 'just' a chemical imbalance wildly misconstrues the disorder. It is not possible to explain either the disease or its treatment based solely on levels of neurotransmitters," says Yale University neurobiologist Ronald Duman, PhD

Hara Estroff Marano
Psychology Today
March, 1999

Quote taken from one of the best sites out there on depression: http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk
Deep insight into depression and medication: http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/Treating_Depression/dep_med.htm


--------------------

"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: Swami]
    #4292558 -

Quote:
One more time - as no one seems to want to DIRECTLY address the issue: what does it tell us if depression can be induced in ANYBODY?


What does it tell us if pain can be induced in anyone?

It shows it's a natural human reaction, and like most natural reactions, we shouldn't be numbing it down in millions of people with synthetic drugs.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: Ravus]
    #4292619 -

It shows it's a natural human reaction, and like most natural reactions, we shouldn't be numbing it down in millions of people with synthetic drugs.

The MAIN THRUST of this thread is that depressives are simply irresponsible or lazy people unwilling to choose a proper mindset in which to view the world.

Somewhere along the way, it has shifted to: Western Medicine wrongly over-prescribes (or wrongly diagnoses) medication for this condition. Can we stick to the main issue and start a second thread for the other instead of comingling them at every turn?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: Swami]
    #4292709 -

The MAIN THRUST of this thread is that depressives are simply irresponsible or lazy people unwilling to choose a proper mindset in which to view the world.
_______________________________________________________________

I would hope that no one is saying this. In re-reading the first post, that wasn't the take I got from it. Rather that many depressed people are not supported in looking into the emotional causes of depression, but instead are just told it's a disease and you need to take a pill for this. That's about all you can do.

Thankfully there were people out there who could validate my intuition about what was causing my depression and support my willingness to work to change things using the resources I had within myself.

I can't say what causes everypersons depression. I just use my subjective experience and the experience of friends who have also seen there depression as a spiritual crisis. This may not be true for everyone. It would in most cases be counter productive to call depressed people lazy or irresponsible. I don't think much of this discussion is centered around that.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: Swami]
    #4292727 -

sometimes I can't understand my own postings due to a miss-spelling or use of a noun instead of a verb, but I don't understand this last rant of yours, swami.

I have been declaring that we have to alow that the antidepressant drugs are really helping many many people.
and
that more obviously need them and are ashamed to seek help
yet
for most of my life I have eschewed this whole thing thinking that being depressed was equal to being self indulgent.

I have even divorced the birth mother of my children who clearly had mental issues without even trying any medical recourse.

I am glad I no longer have to deal with her in particular, and I am happy that she truly thinks nothing is wrong with her, but I have met many more people who are really and truly benefitting from this technology and I do wish more would seek it if they think they need it.

Those who can manage without (like me) can continue with our smug self guided continua.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: looner2]
    #4293148 -

dualistic thinking is so prevalent even among scientists, its beyond me. the cbt vs psychodynamic vs psychiatric folks in college took full advantage of every opportunity to put down all "rival" perspectives. was that science or politics?

depression is about perspective/self-talk vs. biology?
what's the difference? serotonin levels ARE the mind (along with other things)

if my memory serves me, there was this study of primates and serotonin levels- serotonin in one chimp had been increased, that gave him confidence or whatever, he would rise in the hierarchy, serotonin would be increased as a result of gaining status, - the serotonin=more confidence, the monkey gained even more status, and thus more serotonin, and so on and so on until it was the alpha male. and the reverse was observed too.

was this biological or mental? i think the study said it supported a biological interpretation! sure, it did. but at the exclusion of a mental interpretation??

there's a million possible reasons for low serotonin: brain damage, non-exercise, drugs, diet, ostracism, misfortune, trauma, unconscious issues, genetic programming (of the brain), existential angst among others: brain and mind are one.

does it follow from this- that you can always talk a person out of depression? no. i think that that fact may mean there's more to brain-minds than just language.

ps. how many can point to any incident where berating a depressed person for being depressed ("your feelings are your own fault") has really helped? empathy is a starting point if you ask me.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4294155 -

you are what you think ; you think what you are

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I think depression is bullshit [Re: Swami]
    #4294864 -

Swami said:
It shows it's a natural human reaction, and like most natural reactions, we shouldn't be numbing it down in millions of people with synthetic drugs.

The MAIN THRUST of this thread is that depressives are simply irresponsible or lazy people unwilling to choose a proper mindset in which to view the world.

Somewhere along the way, it has shifted to: Western Medicine wrongly over-prescribes (or wrongly diagnoses) medication for this condition. Can we stick to the main issue and start a second thread for the other instead of comingling them at every turn?


That was my whole point all along. I don't know where you got the feeling that I or anyone else was implying depressives are irresponsible or lazy. The whole jist of the thread is that depression is just a natural reaction, and, like a type of mental pain, is just a symptom of a deeper cause. If you just heal the symptoms without looking for the cause, you're only doing people a disservice in the long-run.

You are tricky, Swami, but I don't think I've deviated from the topic of the thread.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |  [ show all ]

Original Sensible Seeds Shop: Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds, Feminized Cannabis Seeds, High THC Strains

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Psylocibes and depression - your thoughts? gothicwolf 2,140 19 01/09/03 02:20 PM
by Grav
* Sprituality no defense against depression/suffering
( 1 2 all )		 lucid 3,602 29 08/05/04 09:00 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Depression..
( 1 2 all )		 PDU 3,414 28 07/23/03 11:08 AM
by Ravinoff
* Depression
( 1 2 3 all )		 CosmicJokeM 6,221 43 11/21/02 10:33 PM
by Phluck
* The Pineal Gland, LSD and Serotonin Twirling 1,523 10 09/30/03 12:31 AM
by Ped
* psychedelics and depression CleverName 516 1 11/27/04 10:27 AM
by Ped
* Smarter u r, more likely u r to get Depressed...
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 lucid 7,559 63 01/21/05 03:39 PM
by incubaby_421
* Happiness Delusion? Depression Sane?
( 1 2 all )		 DoctorJ 3,321 23 11/15/03 02:18 AM
by jiva

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
12,799 topic views. 1 members, 182 guests and 21 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 16 queries.