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Offlinecastaway
Isanybodyreallyhome?
Male User Gallery
Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 553
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: Sprituality no defense against depression/suffering [Re: cleaner]
    #2967000 - 08/05/04 03:29 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I haven't tried most drugs and that's not to say anyone shouldn't but I'm gonna ramble on a bit.

I read somewhere on trip reports where a guy on peyote found himself wandering across the desert and found himself in Dr. Mescalito's waiting room. When his turn came the doctor asked him what his problem was and the guy said I don't have one so the doctor says "What are you here for then? Your wasting my time"

Salvia scares me (altho I haven't tried it) I read an account of being cornered by a giant mechanical cat.

The point I'm trying to get across I guess is that for the serious-minded it may be better to ask a question befor opening the fortune cookie.


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Offlinecleaner
Stranger

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 508
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Sprituality no defense against depression/suffering [Re: castaway]
    #2967004 - 08/05/04 03:35 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

castaway said:
I read somewhere on trip reports where a guy on peyote found himself wandering across the desert and found himself in Dr. Mescalito's waiting room. When his turn came the doctor asked him what his problem was and the guy said I don't have one so the doctor says "What are you here for then? Your wasting my time"




Thats exactly what im talking about, its like before you trip your depressed, your gf left you blach blach but when you visit Dr. Mescalito ....... :wink: :wink: :wink:

...Dr. Mescalito! Thats LMAO funny!


Edited by cleaner (08/05/04 03:46 PM)


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InvisibleClean
the lense
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
Re: Sprituality no defense against depression/suffering [Re: lucid]
    #2967033 - 08/05/04 03:59 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

one thing which alleviated my suffering and depression is rational thinking.  once i realized that wallowing in negativity, moping and being depressed for long periods of time is a waste of energy, or at least a very poor use of it i was able to pull out.  i also realized that i actually became content in my depressive cycle and it was more of a selfish type of thinking after a while, so that helped me get over it.
that said i still get depressed sometimes, but it's just like taking a crap.. eventually you flush :wink:


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InvisibleMOTH
Wild Woman
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
Re: Sprituality no defense against depression/suffering [Re: lucid]
    #2967059 - 08/05/04 04:17 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I had a defining trip that made me realize I was wasting my life by being miserable all the time. It's taken me awhile to get out of the habit of negative thinking and I still have my depressive moments but I've never been happier.


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Offlinedmtrypr
psychonauticalengineer

Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 193
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Sprituality no defense against depression/suffering [Re: MOTH]
    #2967274 - 08/05/04 06:13 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

I totally relate to many of replies as well as the original post. My life was not easy, and I sought relief in drugs both psychoactive and purely recreational. I have been through trouble with the law, addictions, loss of a job because of drugs, etc. I had panic attacks and depression along with manic/depressive symptoms. I got diagnosed with ADD when I was 18. But here's the thing. My way of being spiritual has healed me completely. I realized that life gives us a choice. We can overcome challenges and learn from them, or allow ourselves to be broken by them. I got off drugs (except perscriptions) and exercised/ate healthfully. Still experiencing anxiety and depression I searched for a way to rectify my situation. I found a book on Qi-gong, a chinese energy manipulation system. I researched yoga and practiced it in my own home. I learned how to meditate. Not just on my navel or "om", but on myself. I meditated to learn who "I" was. Its like a map where first you must find where you "are" in order to see where you are going. I realized I had a natural knack for energy work and it gave me a way to occupy my easily bored mind. Energy work for me is a way to be creative even when I can't draw. It allows me to use my imagination when I am driving, on a bus, walking, etc. After a month or so, I experienced energetic blockages being released. The results were dramatic as my actual posture changed. My neck and back were lacking curvature, i guess it is what you would call scoliosis, and it began to pop and shift back into place. It has been a year full of suprises and joys since then. I am writing now looking at a career as a holistic health practitioner and body work speciallist. I will be graduating college soon and have a promising exciting future ahead of me. Until I learned to love who I was, I could not imagine loving who I will be. My faith is my own, so I chose not to go into it much. It is a faith in myself that has kept me going. Knowing that there is purpose in life for all things, including me helped me through the rough spots. I started looking for the little opportunities to make a positive difference in my life and others and the difference has been astounding. I no longer have neck/back pain, headaches, and have'nt been sick for almost a year and a half. I wan't to emphasize most this point. YOU all have within you the power to create for yourself the life you want to experience. Life itself is a creative act, it is spontaneous, inspired, beautiful. Talking to people about this and helping them to find their own way is what I am about, so feel free to p.m. me with any questions/comments. To the original poster, I urge you to stick with it, there is always a way.


--------------------
"There is no greater power in heaven and earth than the thought of the son of man. Though unseen by the eyes of the body,yet each thought has mighty strength, even such strength can shake the heavens." -Gospel of the Essenes


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Sprituality no defense against depression/suffering [Re: dmtrypr]
    #2967346 - 08/05/04 06:52 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Hello everyone :smile:
I fogot how much I love this place and the people here :heart:
you are all such helpful compassionate beings :heart:
I'm not just being sappy here...it's the absolute truth !
I've been reading over the posts and I really hope that
something/someone here will be able to help me...
I must say tho that I have tried a lot (if not everything).
Zahid or someone said I should see a doctor...for the record
please read my original post - I've seen 2 different psychologists
(1 for an entire year !) and 2 psychiatrists and also a social
worker for several months and SEVERAL doctors and unfortunately
none have been able to help me... in fact my shrink (who I
saw for a year) implied that I was incurable :frown:
the strangest thing is that I was a very happy functional child
and always was involved in things and interested in things
(both scientific and artistic - but I inclined towards science).
Before my depression/anxiety (which was spawned by a very
traumatic shroom trip) which I can't seem to get out of, I
have had enrapturous meditative experiences. Everything I say
here is completely true, I'm not selling anything and have nothing
to gain...in fact I'm seeking help so I'm telling u exactly like
it is/was so that someone may be able to better help me...
wish I knew what to do...just feel like I've tried *everything*...
positive thinking, read tons of books, therapy, meditation,
everything...heck if u told me to hang upside down for a month
I'd do that too :smirk:
But much thanks to everyone for trying to help and pls keep
those suggestions comming...
strange but I seem to have gone the other way...most stories
I've heard are of people who go from being depressed/anxious as
children to becomming happy/peaceful...I've done the opposite...
from a single shroom trip...I don't claim to understand why...
I actually don't even care about the reason why...I just want to
recover...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Sprituality no defense against depression/suffering [Re: lucid]
    #2967400 - 08/05/04 07:16 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

BTW, just to give people some idea about my background
(not in any narcisistic way but for simple factual
purposes as it might help someone help me - no way
for me to be narcisistic since I'm a complete wreck now
:sad: )
in the past I was, what would socially be considered, "highly
capable/functional"
1) I scored a 1410 on my SATs (98% percentile)
2) went to college on a full scholarship and graduated
in 3 years instead of 4 with a degree in computer science
3) Have an I.Q of 140
4) Had a 4.1 GPA straight thro high school
I feel like regurgitating reading what I just wrote
cause I feel like I'm being egotistical, but I'm not...honestly...
I just want u to know where I was...
Now I'm completely dysfunctional and practically a complete wreck...
my I.Q is probably 4 now :rolleyes:


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: Sprituality no defense against depression/suffering [Re: lucid]
    #2967505 - 08/05/04 07:45 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

seriously, check that book out, everything you write, and keep on writing about is that you depend on external reality for your happiness.

I went to doctors as well for my depression as being abused as a child will get you there in a hurry. Jellric was right on the money with that I felt good about self loathing and it very egotistical. you have always and still always have enough to be happy man, you jsut have to let yourself be

you are making yourself feel this way. snap out of it!!!

really try it out, what have you got to lose?

it's really cheap and way easy to read.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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Offlinecleaner
Stranger

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 508
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Sprituality no defense against depression/suffering [Re: Clean]
    #2967676 - 08/05/04 08:44 PM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Clean said:
that said i still get depressed sometimes, but it's just like taking a crap.. eventually you flush :wink:





ROFLMAO!!!!! Thats a good way of puting it


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 2 days
Re: Sprituality no defense against depression/suffering [Re: lucid]
    #2969940 - 08/06/04 06:00 AM (18 years, 5 months ago)

Nice rundown of techniques that you've tried against basic existential angst lucid. You know, you're really describing most everyone's position, only you're honest about it. Most people are in total denial, first to themselves, then to everyone else. Psychiatrist Victor Frankl (of Logotherapy) pointed out the condition of "Sunday neurosis," wherein men (especially) gather around the warm glow of a TV set to (individually or in small groups) scream their guts out for a favorite ball team. What is REALLY going on is in fact screaming - screaming with emotion like one's sanity depended on it. They are trying to fill the ever-present existential void that the necessity of work fills during the week. Saturday is for home-chores and also distracts from their inner vacuity.

The thunderous emptiness - too much for most people to take. Women busy themselves with socially accepted excursions from Reality, like shopping, often becoming shopaholics. Men rely on workaholism and keep the actuarial tables constant by having fatal heart attacks at 74.2 years of age. The other addictions to alchol, drugs, sex and gambling help fill in the same void - all for naught 'cause addiction doesn't work it just ends in disaster, which is still more welcome than the void because it's something rather than the apparent nothing.

Your psychiatrist was a piss-poor psychotherapist if he told you what you said. First of all, if it isn't merely clinical depression from situational or biochemical (endogenous) causes, then you are simply experiencing the existential predicament that the rest of us are, and that means that you are not sick at all. It means that you are healthily sensitive as well as honest. Your psychiatrist seems limited in his clinical tools. Like many medical doctors, it is a lot easier to merely prescribe drugs than to really think about what's going on with a patient. We non-medical psychotherapists must rely on words that express states of consciousness. We have to establish 'congruence' with a client so that we both realize that we're on the same experiential page. We have to develop 'empathy' because in THIS boat YOUR pain is the same as MY pain. We are both aware of our existential finitude, we can't stand the suspense about when we die or how we die and we don't want to dull the existential edge by immersion in mindless materialism.

The solution to the problem is in fact a 'solution' - " Solve et Coagula". I looked at your profile and I likewise consider myself to be an Alchemist. Over my consulting chair is a wood-cut sign that reads Alchemist. My Miata's license plate is ALCHEMY. It is my metaphor for doing psychotherapy (after Edward Edinger's model).  You must dissolve your unregenerate self in the waters of baptism, and be recreated anew.. We need to see our mirror image (like the bearded sage whose reflection in water plus his own form creates the hexagram of Macrocosm and Microcosm). 'As Above, So Below' (I'll spare you the Latin, although it sounds cool doesn't it?!) We must acknowledge that we are existential beings while simultaneously acknowledging that we are The Eternal Being. We are not pretending to be Eternal Being and we are not inflating our egos to believe that our egos are Eternal Being. We are right HERE and NOW in Eternal Space and Time. If we KNOW this ''Eternal Now" (Tillich), this "Power of Now" (Tolle), then we have achieved the Philosophers' Stone. Allow the joy to arise. In thie midst of existential pain, allow the joy to arise from the Ground of Being - it's the mirror image. HEY lucid - Here we are!! :smile:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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