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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
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The rise of depression
    #2177132 - 12/14/03 05:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

ok so why is it that adbusters etc. publications write articles about how pharmaceutical companies go around creating mental diseases out of everybody's idiosyncrasies so that they can sell a pill to "cure" them,




and then they write articles about how we are all more depressed than we once were, like 50 years ago. Seems to me that now there is profit in labelling someone as depressed the PTB would be more keen to diagnose someone as that or otherwise mentally ill..




therefore, are we really more depressed than we once were or is depression now being studied and more readily diagnosed than we once were? Shame on adbusters for this obvious self-serving flaw in their analysis of the situation.



and let me say that there is NO WAY anybody can say that the human race is more depressed than it once was with certainty. There is just no solid evidence of that, it's pure speculation based on the ol' grass is greener on the other side thing. Like climate change, there is not a long enough global objective record of change to know the trends with certainty. Western civilization may be the happiest its ever been since the discovery of agriculture.


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OfflinePositronius
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Registered: 11/27/03
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2177144 - 12/14/03 05:22 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Im happier than my forefathers.

My forefathers worked all day long.

Me? I wake up - smoke a joint - and listen to Sigur Ros.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: Positronius]
    #2177146 - 12/14/03 05:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I'm happier than my grandparents that's for sure.


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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2177153 - 12/14/03 05:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Lack of proper nutrition leads to mental illness. no joke.
And considering that we eat mostly manufactured foods (don't even tell me you don't) we're missing things.
Hence depression. Eat more fruit, you'll feel better.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)


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OfflinePositronius
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Registered: 11/27/03
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #2177167 - 12/14/03 05:29 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Relax your mind, lay back and groove with mine...

I know a guy who is manic, he drinks at least 3 litres of Diet Coke a day.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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OfflineGrav
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: Positronius]
    #2177376 - 12/14/03 07:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Idleness depresses me.


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Anonymous

Re: The rise of depression [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2177392 - 12/14/03 07:24 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know if people are more depressed, but I do know that the populace (particularly the American populace) is more delusional and more out-of-touch with the world around them than they've been in at least 100 years.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: ]
    #2177470 - 12/14/03 07:53 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

-max: is more delusional and more out-of-touch with the world around them than they've been in at least 100 years.

you think its worse than the 50's? cold-war paranoia?


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Anonymous

Re: The rise of depression [Re: Positronius]
    #2177630 - 12/14/03 09:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I would say the current terrorism paranoia is at least on the same level as the cold-war paranoia.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: Positronius]
    #2177633 - 12/14/03 09:19 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Treating depression with drugs is becoming quite common. The number of people treated over the ten year period increased by over 300%.




http://www.mercola.com/2002/jan/16/depression.htm

Based on discussions I've had with others, it's my opionion that perhaps there is not an increase in the incidence of depression, but that pharmaceutical companies have a vested interest in having more people diagnosed so that they can push their pills.

There may be different things today that make people worry than there were 10 or 20 or 30 years ago, but people will worry and get depressed, especially as they get older and go through divorces, job loss, death in the family, etc.

In the article quoted above, the author states that it is more common now to prescribe prozac than to recommend counseling.

Also, see http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A16445-2002Jan8?language=printer


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Edited by Frog (12/14/03 09:22 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: ]
    #2179057 - 12/15/03 10:39 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Max Headroom said:
I would say the current terrorism paranoia is at least on the same level as the cold-war paranoia.




Um, I am not sure that there are people building bomb shelters. I don't think that people are walking around with a constant fear of the fact that that day might be their last day on Earth. I'm not entirely sure that we've exactly had a moment where nuclear war seemed imminent in mere hours and I am not sure we are going to have that soon.

I'm sure that there aren't a lot of people having trouble sleeping at night. While the Russians posed the threat of the end of the world for us within the time span of minutes, terrorists are only capable of blowing up buildings and do not have the infrastructure to bring death and destruction at that level. I'm almost positive that there aren't a lot of people that don't realize this.

Hey Swami, you were around during that time, right? What do you remember?
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2179856 - 12/15/03 04:25 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

ok so why is it that adbusters etc. publications write articles about how pharmaceutical companies go around creating mental diseases out of everybody's idiosyncrasies so that they can sell a pill to "cure" them,

and then they write articles about how we are all more depressed than we once were, like 50 years ago. Seems to me that now there is profit in labelling someone as depressed the PTB would be more keen to diagnose someone as that or otherwise mentally ill..





Well, first of all, I think that selling people medication for depression and diagnosing people with mental diseases for their personal idiosyncracies are two different issues. I think what Adbusters complains about the most is when they market drugs to people that are supposed to "cure" problems that normal, non-diseased people face, like "Social Anxiety Disorder". I mean come on, who doesn't have SAD? Everyone I know is usually pretty timid in social situations where they dont know anyone. People dont need drugs to overcome stuff like that, they just need to work through those issues themselves. Drugs are kind of cheating.

It seems to me that most drug commercials operate on the principle of self-diagnosis- I remember in undergrad psych classes the teacher would always warn us that when we study mental diseases, we have a tendancy to compare them to ourselves and possibly see too much of ourselves in them. Most drug commercials are like this: they ask the viewer loaded questions like: "Are you sad? Tired? Do you have anxiety?" Well, at 5 oclock after a full day's work, who isnt sad, tired, and anxious?

And psychiatrists arent any better. When I was 16, my parents made me see a psychiatrist because they thought I had a drug problem (their definition of "drug problem" being the use of any drugs whatsoever). Now, this guy talked to me for about 10 minutes before prescribing me an antidepressant and sending me on my way. the main basis for his diagnosis was my own self report (He asked me "are you depressed?" and I said "Yes") But the reason i was depressed was because my parents had just caught me with drugs and grounded me and taken my TV and computer away. My "depression" had nothing to do with chemical imbalances in the brain, it was purely situational. Nevertheless, the doctor prescribed me these mind-altering drugs and sent me on my way, even tried to talk me out of it when I decided to stop taking them 3 months later.

Now, since then I have had bouts with depression, but drugs were never the answer. The answers to my depressions always came from confronting issues in my life. I think that the drug companies are selling easy shortcut ways out of depression by offering people a way out of depression that doesnt require them to think about reality and solve their own mental issues. I also think that psychiatrists are way too eager to diagnose someone as chemically depressed when they are in fact only situationally depressed. I also think that people mentally downplay all the negative effects drugs can have, while at the same time downplaying the value that psychotherapy (as opposed to drugs) can have. Depression is often misdiagnosed and mistreated.

As far as claiming that modern people are more depressed, I do believe that is true. Research shows that urban dwellers are more depressed than rural residents, and most urban centers are growing. I think that the point Adbusters is trying to make is that the business/industrial culture is conducive to actual depression. I agree with this from personal experience. Of course, I dont think that sloppin hogs and milkin cows would be very fun either, but apparently the psychological effects of that existence are less negative than the psychological effects of selling insurance from a cubicle all day. Or so a lot of corelational studies have shown, anyway.

Quote:

therefore, are we really more depressed than we once were or is depression now being studied and more readily diagnosed than we once were?




both.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2180296 - 12/15/03 07:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

drug companies manufacture their own mental illnesses. The majority of these new generation of diagnosis are pure shite.

Got social anxiety disorder? then make something out of yourself and create some fucking self-esteem.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Anonymous

Re: The rise of depression [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2180322 - 12/15/03 07:26 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Is that how it really was? Or is that just how the media portrays it? Just as they portray another terrorist attack just around the corner... a suitcase nuke, a germ attack, et cetera any day now. I'd be interested in hearing from someone who lived during the Cold War and how it compares to the current geopolitical situation.


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2180704 - 12/15/03 09:43 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

interenting info doctorj


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Invisiblejpod
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2181874 - 12/16/03 09:21 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Good post DoctorJ I agree with you 100%.

I wonder with as many psychiatrists as there are out there today how many are truly qualified and understand how to help people from an individual therapeutic standpoint versus a chemical standpoint. With the medical training they go through, one could certainly understand how a psychiatrist could tend to focus more on the physiological root of disorders rather than the psychological. In most cases a more balanced approach must be used to fix a problem from all sides.

I also think another factor may be in the older generations greater tendency to repress. Younger generations are encouraged to be more in tune with their feelings where as more of the older generations were taught to hold more in. Perhaps some people upon examining themselves and finding sadness, have a tendency to become stuck in a thought loop and consequently fail to recognize the full range of their lives and instead focus on the negative.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: ]
    #2182633 - 12/16/03 03:28 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Max Headroom said:
Is that how it really was? Or is that just how the media portrays it? Just as they portray another terrorist attack just around the corner... a suitcase nuke, a germ attack, et cetera any day now. I'd be interested in hearing from someone who lived during the Cold War and how it compares to the current geopolitical situation.




From what I have heard from people living through it, it was actually a threat that was echoing through the minds of everyone pretty much constantly. Like I said, the threat wasn't some building being blown up, or a city's air or water being poisoned, it was the nuclear destruction of our species, pretty much.

I know we have some people in here that lived through it, chime in and aid with the destruction, because you know we can't trust the media! :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2182750 - 12/16/03 04:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I was in grade school when this was going on. I remember, monthly, the drills we practiced of getting under our desks, in preparation of when the Russians would drop the bomb on us. It was a real fear. I remember hearing adults talk about "the Russians" and the bomb. It was something that lived with us almost daily, that the Russians could drop the bomb any minute.

I think that if that was the climate we were living in now, and I was not where I am at, spiritually, I would be in fear of my children's lives. Living in constant fear and with that constant threat could probably put someone in a state of depression.

(Funny thing about those practice drills: A few years ago I watched a dramatization of what would happen if a bomb was dropped in L.A., for example. And we were hiding under our desks???)


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: Frog]
    #2182876 - 12/16/03 05:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
I think that if that was the climate we were living in now, and I was not where I am at, spiritually, I would be in fear of my children's lives.  Living in constant fear and with that constant threat could probably put someone in a state of depression. 





The difference, I think, is that the threat is not that constant, but it is presented as such. I mean, I don't know, I am not even over there anymore, and I never watched television anyways, but is there really still all sorts of fucking people thinking about this?

It just seems so... played. I dunno. I mean, there is a threat, but compared to the thousands of other more dire and immediate threats to our life, I hardly think it is the thing to be worried about.

I guess my point is that there is plenty of shit out there that can make everyone live in constant fear. The fear cuts you off from the experience of living in life. If you don't fly on planes, you cut yourself off from a very quick method of traveling around the world. If you constantly fear viruses getting into your lungs, you end up like Howard Hughes.

Tell me that if you were the richest man for decades, that you could come up with some better and more life enrichening things to do than to lock yourself in a room to protect yourself from the "horrors" of the world.

:grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The rise of depression [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2182956 - 12/16/03 05:17 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I don't know what people are afraid of, these days. I pick up on bits and pieces here and there as to the latest threat. I don't watch T.V. either.

But I agree with you that there is plenty of things people can be afraid of, but that fear can limit the way they experience their lives.

There's one guy I know who is always stressing over money. I think if he would quit worrying about it, his mind would be freed up to think about other things.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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